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even if it was a pagan tradition, it was still not allowed. the rabbis that you are talking about are reform and conservative. the women wear kippas and talleisim. girls have their bas mitzvas at 13. they also believe that homosexual sex is allowed. come on!

you obviously don't understand what i'm talking about. i'm not trying to put anybody down. i'm just trying to explain something. and i never said you were not a real jew. i said that people who convert to conservative judaism are not considered jewish to orthodox jews. that's all i said. i'm sorry that it offended you.

sorry. i was kind of worked up. i shouldn't have written that.

gut shabbos

No problem. I'm an Admin on a few forums, doing this sort of thing comes naturally. wink

I'm glad you're thinking about converting! I'm a conservative Jew, but was born into Messianic, so I sort of made the decision to be conservative. I think you should talk to rabbi about converting!

We've had a BUNCH of conversions at shul lately. After that 55...there have been several more. But of course, there's a lot of studying involved.
When you say conservative, though, what kind of level of practice are you considering? Extreme--or more relaxed?

Ahem. I will NOT engage myself in a putdown of other Jews. However, Shtolts, you're mistaken. My ORTHODOX rabbi (no, not Modern Orthodox, but a rather chareidi Sephardi man) has pointed to several sources within Talmud and Torah that point, just as clear to him, to the fact that only ONE act is forbidden for two men (a**l penetration), and NO acts are forbidden between two women, while about two hundred acts are forbidden between a man and woman. By that logic, one should ban heterosexuality, not homosexuality, yet no one's trying to do that.

Yes, there are rabbis who condemn it. There are also many ORTHODOX rabbis who fully support it. They say, "No one asks a man and wife whether they're observing every single law concerning marital relations; we simply trust that they are. So why ask gay men whether they're observing the one-and-only commandment directed towards their relationships? Why ask lesbians any questions at all, since the Torah doesn't even speak about it, and what isn't forbidden is permitted?"

If you want to pasken (give an authoritative statement on Jewish law), you might want to post a JPG of your certificate of s'michah (rabbinic ordination) first, so that we can take your word as authoritative. In the end, it's simply an opinion that you have, that your individual rabbi has reinforced.

Rabbis don't have a central individual that they look to -- we don't have a pope, we don't need a pope, so one rabbi's authority over another is nonexistent except by virtue of how many people listen to him and accept his word.

Your rabbi's word may be good enough for you, and my rabbi's word may be good enough for me, but that doesn't mean that either one of them is "right" in this matter. It simply means that you're mistaken when you say that the rabbis who don't condemn homosexual relationships are all non-Orthodox (with the implication that their rabbinate is less valid).