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 Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 2:26 am
LunarSchemer Crisis Core Cloud
I am a strong believer that Aeris did not know who the real Cloud was, until after Tifa unlocks his memories, and his true self. I believe that also. Aeris seems to change her tune pretty fast after she sees the real Cloud. She's very surprised at first, then she gets sort of jealous, then she finally seems to give both Tifa and Cloud her blessing. It's a lot different from what she was telling Zack in the beginning.
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Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 2:32 am
Foxy_TifaLockhart ^^ I agree with Crisis Core Cloud. We all know Cloud and Aerith were friends, so of course seeing a friend murdered in front of you would do wonders on your emotions XD. Besides, Cloud had promised to be her body-guard and he failed to protect her (even though there was basically nothing he could have done to prevent it *grumbles about AC!Cloud*)...which really only aided that awakening of anger bit--"What about my pain? My fingers are tingling. My mouth is dry. My eyes are burning!" That isn't enough to base a claim of cloith on though...eh, I think he would have acted similar to any other fallen comrade--a little more so with Tifa though, purely because he's known her the longest an' depends on her mentally. All in all, I didn't see anything in that scene that could be interpreted as romantic....well, if you squint, lol, but that's only if you're looking for a Cloud an' Aerith moment.
About Zack...oh man, I really do stand by the fact idea that a lot of Cloud an' Aerith interactions were influenced by Zack. Aerith initially liked Cloud because he reminded her of Zack and Cloud...well, he was too screwed up in the head to pinpoint what he really felt an' what was bleeding through from Zack XDD. But about this scene...I think most of it was Cloud....even though I voted Zack, lol. I was confused. I agree 100%. I couldn't have said it better myself.
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Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 10:34 am
Quote: Compilation Check What Cloud Inherited from Zack Under the affect of Jenova's cells, Cloud mimics his best friend Zack and creates a new persona, but the mental aspects weren't the only things he received from Zack. His starting equipment, the Buster Sword, was the one Zack used, and in CC Zack uses an ability that looks just like Cloud's Limit skill "Meteorain", so from the looks of this, could this battle technique also be handed down from Zack?  That's what it said in the Ultimania... : X
Now, some of you were saying Cloud only adapted the mannerisms... but here it says that he has also taken on some of the mental aspects.
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Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 11:55 am
LunarSchemer Quote: Compilation Check What Cloud Inherited from Zack Under the affect of Jenova's cells, Cloud mimics his best friend Zack and creates a new persona, but the mental aspects weren't the only things he received from Zack. His starting equipment, the Buster Sword, was the one Zack used, and in CC Zack uses an ability that looks just like Cloud's Limit skill "Meteorain", so from the looks of this, could this battle technique also be handed down from Zack? That's what it said in the Ultimania... : X
Now, some of you were saying Cloud only adapted the mannerisms... but here it says that he has also taken on some of the mental aspects.
As for this, this talks about mental aspects, it talks about the mind, knowledge, information and all that, it says nothing of emotion which is controlled by the heart.
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Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 12:25 pm
That's also true, but it's also up to the mind to interpret that emotion. (Whoa...this is getting rather deep) Though I can't say what Cloud was actually feeling during the times he was under Jenova's influence, but even if he did have his own emotions, he sure didn't show it.
[[edit]] Hey Lunar? I have another affiliate in mind=the AerTi Guild.
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Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 1:37 pm
Twindream That's also true, but it's also up to the mind to interpret that emotion. (Whoa...this is getting rather deep) Though I can't say what Cloud was actually feeling during the times he was under Jenova's influence, but even if he did have his own emotions, he sure didn't show it. [[edit]] Hey Lunar? I have another affiliate in mind=the AerTi Guild.
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Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 6:09 pm
But aren't many emotions spurred on by knowledge?
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Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 6:36 pm
Kaleta LunarSchemer Quote: Compilation Check What Cloud Inherited from Zack Under the affect of Jenova's cells, Cloud mimics his best friend Zack and creates a new persona, but the mental aspects weren't the only things he received from Zack. His starting equipment, the Buster Sword, was the one Zack used, and in CC Zack uses an ability that looks just like Cloud's Limit skill "Meteorain", so from the looks of this, could this battle technique also be handed down from Zack? That's what it said in the Ultimania... : X
Now, some of you were saying Cloud only adapted the mannerisms... but here it says that he has also taken on some of the mental aspects.
As for this, this talks about mental aspects, it talks about the mind, knowledge, information and all that, it says nothing of emotion which is controlled by the heart.Huh? I didn't know people who weren't members could post. O_O Is that because I don't have the Guild set to private? x'D I might want to fix that later. But yeah, Kaleta. We'd be glad to have you. :]
@Twin: Yesh! The Aerti Guild would be a great affiliate.
@The issue at hand:
I think that this is a matter of opinion. :] But I agree with CC Cloud, so far. x'D
And I am kinda confused as to which "emotions" were Clouds when he was being controlled by Jenova. :/ The fact is, if you erase all the moments he had with Tifa during the time he was being controlled, you still have the fact that they still have their promise. They still have the lifestream and Highwind scenes, and all the other fluffy goodness that came in after Tifa unlocked Clouds memories.
Cleris would be completely wiped away. : X
Of course, we know that Cloud obviously had emotions of his own, because if he hadn't he wouldn't have referred to certain instances after he did become his true self, and he wouldn't have cared about Aeris dying so much if he never felt an emotion that was truly his own. So I dunno. It's hard to tell "what is Cloud" and what isn't.
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Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 6:17 am
Ya you should probably make your guild private from now on! ^^; Here is the exact FFVII dialogue from when Cloud confessed that he confused his memories with Zack. Quote: Cloud "I never was in SOLDIER. I made up the stories about what happened to me five years ago, about being in SOLDIER. I left my village looking for glory, but never made it in to SOLDIER... I was so ashamed of being so weak; then I heard this story from my friend Zack... And I created an illusion of myself made up of what I had seen in my life..... And I continued to play the charade as if it were true." Barret "Illusion, huh...? Pretty damn strong for an illusion, I'd say." Cloud "I'm physically built like someone in SOLDIER. Hojo's plan to clone Sephiroth wasn't that difficult. It was just the same procedure they use when creating members of SOLDIER.” Cloud "You see, someone in SOLDIER isn't simply exposed to Mako energy. Their bodies are actually injected with Jenova cells... For better or for worse, only the strong can enter SOLDIER. It has nothing to do with the Jenova Reunion. But weak people... like me, get lost in the whole thing." Cloud "The combination of Jenova cells, Sephiroth's strong will, and my own weaknesses are what created me. Everyone knew that. I'm... Cloud." (He shakes his head sadly.) Cloud "...the master of my own illusionary world. But I can't remain trapped in an illusion any more... I'm going to live my life without pretending." Tifa "You're sure messed up, Cloud!" Barret "That means there ain't no difference from before!" I thought that was intersting that Tifa says Cloud's messed up lol but anyways...Barret's quote I think says it all. Basically Cloud may have mixed up memories of Soldier with Zack but there is no difference from before. Cloud is Cloud, always has always will be. Now I think you have just dissaproved your entire 'theory'. You said that Clerith would be completely erased but that's obviously not true. After Aerith dies, after Cloud reconstructs his memories, he continues to talk about Aerith. He continues to fight because of her. Quote: Cloud "I know why I'm fighting. I'm fighting to save the planet, and that's that. But besides that, there's something personal too...A very personal memory that I have." Here is a quote right after Cloud admits mixing up his thoughts with Zack. Quote: (Cloud looks down) Cloud "I remember Aerith a lot. No... not that. You haven't remembered. You haven't forgotten. That's not it... How would you say it... Aerith was right there all along. Right by our side. She was so close, we couldn't see her. What Aerith did... The words she left behind..." Are you telling me this is Zack too? Because that's completely absurd! Cloud never mixed up anything about Aerith with Zack. His feelings for Aerith are his own, since he had never met Aerith w/Zack before and most importantly there is no evidence to back that up! Oh how about this... Quote: (Cloud touches his face.) Cloud "...Aerith. Aerith has already prayed for Holy ...After I gave the Black Materia to Sephiroth... Aerith's words came into my dreams..." Cloud "She said, she was the only one who could stop Sephiroth... And to do that, there was a secret here... That was Holy... That's why, she had the White Materia. Aerith knew about here... and what she had to do. Aerith has left us great hope. But, it cost her her life... her future..." Cloud "I'm sorry... Aerith. I should have figured this out sooner. ...You left us without saying a word... It was all so sudden, so I couldn't think... That's why it took so long for me to find out... But, Aerith... I understand now." Cloud "Aerith... I'll do the rest." Tifa "You mean, WE..." What do you think of that? Cloud seems to refer to only himself, like at the night at cosmo canyon and at the ending of FFVII. Even Tifa seems to realize it. : ] I guess that... Aerith+Death+Cloud=Cleris? YAW.
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Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 4:48 pm
Y'know, even with all of those quotes, I don't see Cleris. I never see Cloud seeing Aeris as more than a friend. A very good friend, maybe, but still just a friend.
And when does Barret ever get anything right?
But yeah, I do think that any romantic feelings Cloud had for Aeris were still spurred on by fragmented memories from Zack. But all in all, in the end, Cloud just feels guilty about the loss of his friend, and feels it's his responsibility to take on the entire world's problems himself because of his involvment in creating the problems.
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Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 12:00 pm
Crisis Core Cloud
But yeah, I do think that any romantic feelings Cloud had for Aeris were still spurred on by fragmented memories from Zack.
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Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 1:21 pm
I agree with you, Pink. You did a great job of pointing that out. : O
I guess "Cloud is Cloud". rofl
I still think that his attraction to Aeris in the beginning might have had something to do with Zack, but now I think it's safe to say that the feelings he had for Aeris are his own. ^^ Because when he was the "real" Cloud again, he still cared about Aeris, and he still felt horrible for what happened.
Sooo besides the Aeris+Death+Cloud=Cleris part, I agree with you. :]
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Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:28 pm
yay I love it when I'm right! whee
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Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 4:10 pm
Yes, I realize that was the point of your post, but I still disagree with that. I disagree with the fact that, even with fragmented information he'd gotten from Zack, Cloud never loved Aeris, and Aeris's death didn't spur on any romantic feelings. Cloud never saw Aeris as more than a good friend, and that is my point in this entire thing. When Aeris died, it was probably made worse by Cloud half believing he was Zack, and the fact that Cloud was starting to loose it at that point. That's my take on the situation, and that will probably be my take on the situation for a very long time.
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Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 5:20 pm
Crisis Core Cloud Yes, I realize that was the point of your post, but I still disagree with that. I disagree with the fact that, even with fragmented information he'd gotten from Zack, Cloud never loved Aeris, and Aeris's death didn't spur on any romantic feelings. Cloud never saw Aeris as more than a good friend, and that is my point in this entire thing. When Aeris died, it was probably made worse by Cloud half believing he was Zack, and the fact that Cloud was starting to loose it at that point. That's my take on the situation, and that will probably be my take on the situation for a very long time. Not meaning to argue or anything, but if the reason Cloud got so emotional over Aeris' death was because of Zack in your opinion, than can you explain why you think Cloud continued to care about Aeris after he discovered his true self? He said,
"I think I can meet her there"
and
"I want to be forgiven"
all of that jazz.
What do you think about things like that? I'd like to know! : D
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