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Well, a quick search didn't yield any results in that direction (though, I didn't search that thoroughly, it's past 1am and I've been up since 4am already).
However, even the one article that came somewhat close to your views, however, mentioned that among the refugees would probably have been soldiers, (warrior) monks, practicioners of chinese martial arts etc., which seems quite probable to me, too. Those people could have blended in with the Japanese society and become soldiers, mercenaries, and also assassins and spies. Why not?
Interesting enough, though, Wikipedia doesn't have any history part included in articles about the subject stare

Btw, I think it's not that good to tell anyone to "look for yourself" without any directions, because if one does he will most probably end up either at Bullshido sites or sites that just state the popular beliefs (which seems to be the same in your understanding). Isn't that what the Anti-Bullshido guild should take care against?
So, again, point me to sources, please, a single URL will probably suffice for starters.



Though this and also the next statement probably wasn't meant for me, I'll state my opinion.

To begin with, I don't really care who you call Bullshido on, even if it might be me (in fact, after this posting I would be surprised if nobody did; feel free to do so if you like xp ), but if you do, you should also offer solid evidence on the things you say. The mentioning of the lack of steel in Japan is an IMHO small hint that your theory might be true, not really evidence. There's quite a variety of weapons that you can make without any steel, so if anything this is merely a indication on the existence or non-existence of the Ninja-to.
As I understand it, what you said before is mainly your own (and some of the other people in the guild's) theory/opinion. Therefore, I think you'll understand that I'll take the word of people who I learned to trust above that of people I absolutely don't know unless there's something to convince me.



Well, of course not, but I guess we all like to know something about the background of what we do, don't we? I take it as a hint on why some techniques are taught the way they are, and to better see what is applicable today, what is not, and what can or has to be changed to use it today.


Well, fsck, 2 and a half hour of sleep left... I guess I'll regret this posting on the double tomorrow mad

I believe this is a valid request... hell, I'm curious my damn self. All this Ninja historical talk has always peaked my interest. Though I have no affilation with Ninjutsu, nor have never practiced... I'm curious to how the classical stances and techniques as shown in Hatsumi's various books... are modernized to work in today's time.

I am not a part of this guild but I have to say one thing. There were indeed ninjas. How do I know? There was a program about ninjas on the Discovery Channel. They had there a ninja master, the 37 generation ninja master. He is still teaching in Japan in a small privatly chosen school. Now I would say, if you would like to tell the Discovery Channel that their professional historians and immense resourses are wrong be my guest. But I have a feeling they could probably reveal some things that you have never seen before. As well as the fact that my friend was part of a ninja clan. I did meet his parents, and saw their nice weapons collection. Note that these weapons were relics, over 150 years old. As well as new weapons. If you'd like to tell them that they were brought up on something that did not exsist be my guest. I do not however like the misconceptions about the ninja. There was a ninjato to my knowledge, however, it was rarely used. From my understanding it was used more in defence of their strong hold or for assainations. That could be wrong though. But to say they never existed is a tad bit foolish. They existed, probably not in the way we know but they most certainly existed.

Also, getting back to this thread in a bit as soon as I have more free time, DON'T close it or they'll be hell to pay.

Well, when I think of "Modernizing", I'm referring to the fact that we do not live in 16th Century Japan. Many things are different. Your average person has a higher chance of being skilled to some degree at fighting. I can't understand how there is a problem defining the word "Modernize". Opponents fight diffeently now, so styles such as Ninjutsu have no choice but to reform, or become obsolete. Being that the chances are highly unlikely that the Japanese of the 16th Century had the capability to fight Brazilians, English, Indians, or whatever have you.... I can't imagine that the style in its historical form, has methods to deal with these ways of fighting. But then again, I could be wrong... because I have no knowledge of Ninjutsu other than what I continue to read about it.

Ah, ok... I'm starting to understand. Well, I did a little research on the Modernization of Ninjutsu as a whole. The only information I was able to find, stemmed from the Bujinkan by way of Stephen Hayes. Basically, what I read was that a few years ago, he started what he labelled was "Quest Centers". As I read on, I came to understand that Hayes didn't actually tech Bujinkan Taijutsu at these quest centers, but that it was a simpler form of the Taijutsu with modernized techniques to deal with specifically boxers and gunscalled Toshin-Do. The Quest Centers were basically Shotokan and Taekwondo schools, of which Hayes solicited to teach the style out of.

From what I learned, the students of Hayes' Quest Centers, do not hold rank within the Bujinkan or any of the other Hombu's. This was the only form of Modernized Taijutsu I could find. I also found a few threads poking fun at the quest centers over at Bullshido.Net, but I save my personal opinion for when I am able to try the centers out myself.

Taijutsuguy... would you happen to have any other info?

Learn more about Toshindo at his offical website http://www.skhquest.com/

Yes, please elaborate on this "Body Weapon".