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 Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 2:56 pm
Sorry I haven't been around here much. I must say that I've wondered about this subject many times myself and I suppose that to grab the reader's attention I do something similar as George Lucas does: I just write what would grab my attention and go from there. 3nodding
I'm up for writing an action scene on my Kenshin Belmont journal right now but I still have to finish developing the female character he encounters. I usually don't add action scenes to a journal unless it's absolutely necessary.
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Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 11:46 am
Here's one that's bugging me...
I've started chapter 1 again. I thought of having my main character, the bounty hunter, take a bounty for my pirate in the beginning so they meet pretty much straight away. The way I'd been doing it was having characters too far apart much of the time and so it slowed down the plot trying to get the relevant parties together in the right places.
I think I've got it worked out, but I've been trying to write an action scene with them and it's just not...well...working. I'll be trying again though.
It may be that I just have to avoid a fight for now.
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Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 6:04 pm
What about the fight isn't working?
Berz.
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Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:31 am
I don't know whether it's just me, but I feel that I'm not making it "flow" and despite the idea of the fight being good, to me it looks like a mess when I've written it. Describing the movements of one or more characters in sequence.
You know in a film when you see a battle scene and the camera flits between different characters and/or parties in a war or brawl or something? Perhaps I'm thinking that the reader will get lost in what's going on, or perhaps I'm thinking it's not engaging enough (maybe even both).
I want the atmosphere in there, and from how I read it back to myself half the time, it doesn't seem to be present. Maybe it's just me and I'm criticising my own work too much (I know that Terry Pratchett criticised himself too much and thought his work was crap when it wasn't). I don't know...?
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Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:46 am
What's the scale of the fight? Is it just two people or is it a whole room full of people. If it's the latter, you might be able to fix the problem by choosing one character's point of view and working with them. Focus in on their observations of the insanity around them and maybe have them worry about one opponent at a time. They kind of do the same thing in film. Yes, the cut to the background characters quite a bit, but it's only ever one or two short cuts before they go back to the main character to reacquaint the viewer with what is happening to them. With writing, you have to be even more specific, I find, since you have to take the time to describe what's happening. If you want to make an action scene flow along, you have to cut down on the supporting cast and sum up the surroundings quickly. Here's an example of a large battle. I wrote this for a fanfic a while ago... Quote: The Rangers let loose their second volley, then set their bows aside in favor of drawing their swords. At a signal from Mablung, they charged forward toward the advancing Orcs. The Orcs obliged the move, answering it in kind. The two lines met in a clash of metal and a mass of voices fair and foul alike. Mablung found himself on an upward climb in short order. Very quickly, there were more Orcs than Men near him. He charged ahead, his sword point trailing behind him. The first Orc he came to fell to a vicious rising cut. The next Orc came at him from his right and Mablung turned, pushing his sword point at the Orc’s chest. The blade glanced off the Orc’s armor with a mocking ring and the beast counter-attacked with a strike from above. Half in panicked reflex, Mablung managed to get his sword in place to block it above his head and immediately moved to control steel, swinging around and toward the ground to his left. The Orc pulled back and recovered quickly, preparing for another strike, but Mablung moved first, striking the blade aside with a rising cut and swinging around into a horizontal cut which finally ended the Orc. The line of Rangers did not advance any farther than the place where the lines first met. Any time Mablung gained ground, he found himself giving it back only a moment later. Soon he was retreating all the time, the trees of the woods growing nearer with every Orc he managed to defeat. Quick glances at his compatriots informed him that they were doing the same. And still, for every Orc killed in the battle, three more seemed to take its place. Suddenly, Mablung found other Rangers at his back, huddled closely. “Commander, we’re surrounded!” one of them said, terror in his voice. “Hold firm!” Mablung shouted, putting the blade of his sword in his gauntlet-covered left hand. He took a defensive stance with his left foot forward and his sword held horizontally before him. The first Orc to come at him struck from above and Mablung blocked with his sword held high, stepping in. Quickly, the commander snaked the tip of his sword down, under the Orc’s right arm. He grabbed it again behind the Orc’s back, pushing up on his tip and down on his hilt. The Orc pitched over forward as Mablung stepped aside and then there was a horrible crack as its arm came free of its shoulder. Wailing, the Orc fell to the ground, sliding off of Mablung’s sword. The Ranger stabbed it through the back of the neck a moment later. The small victory cost him, though, as Mablung suddenly found himself flying to the side. He felt as though he had been struck by a boulder and nearly lost his grip on his sword. The Orc that had bull-rushed him wasted no time and struck from Mablung’s left. His knees were shaking as he did it, but he managed to get his sword around in time, catching the Orkish blade with an awkward twist of his cross piece. He pushed it up and around, over both their heads, and pushed with his knees until they were mere inches apart. Staring the foul beast in the eye for but a moment, Mablung reached in his belt for his dagger and drew it with his left hand, moving to strike at the vulnerable spot in the Orc’s armor beneath the arm. But the Orc grabbed his wrist. They stood there, blades locked together and off-weapon arms grappling for their very lives. The Orc began to bear down on Mablung and the Ranger began to lose his leverage. He was at the very edge of his strength when an arrow appeared in the Orc’s forehead. Not the green fletching of one of his men, but the light golden brown of the Galenost Elves. Mablung shook himself free of his dead opponent and looked around him as a man who had faced his executioner and been inexplicably pardoned. One by one, the Orcs began to fall under a hail of arrows from the west. There, upon a second ridge, just outside the tree line, Mablung could see a formation of Elven archers, firing their keen arrows into the fray. From out of their midst a force of pike-wielding footmen charged, their weapons braced for the attack. The trick to a large fight is to make it personal. Best way to do it is to pick someone to be the reader's eyes and ears. It can be taken as a pretty standard philosophy for any fight. When you're down to only two people, it's just obvious who you're point of view character is; your protagonist. Don't know if any of that helped or anything. I'm still not really clear on what your issue is with the piece you're working on. This could be completely useless advice, for all I know. sweatdrop Berz.
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Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 12:08 pm
Yeah it did help because it made it clearer that facing multiple enemies isn't really difficult if those enemies aren't important in any way. This fight, however, was going to be one on one to begin with, and let's just say that although I have a protagonist, there are several others in the story who are almost as important as he is, and this character is one of them.
In short, it's the mercenary (the protagonist) versus the young pirate captain. You can gather how their first meeting turns out (well it's not exactly their first meeting, as they've met once before but this is the first time as far as the book is concerned). The mercenary is seeking the pirate because it's work for him. Later I intend for them to become allies in one way or another (not going to reveal anything there), but this is how it begins.
However, as the pirate is a phenomenal escape artist, it might be more amusing for him to avoid the fight this time despite him being just as good in combat as the main character; but with a different style of course.
The pirate is also flamboyant and he and his warrior friend are meant to be the comic relief.
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Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 2:25 pm
DM_Melkhar I don't know whether it's just me, but I feel that I'm not making it "flow" and despite the idea of the fight being good, to me it looks like a mess when I've written it. Describing the movements of one or more characters in sequence.
You know in a film when you see a battle scene and the camera flits between different characters and/or parties in a war or brawl or something? Perhaps I'm thinking that the reader will get lost in what's going on, or perhaps I'm thinking it's not engaging enough (maybe even both). I have the same problem sometimes too! I've seen movies in which the fight scenes can't be appreciated well enough cuz the camera moves around very erratically or it takes very close "close-ups" of the characters and I hate that. One example of the latter is the battle between Jedi and Sith in the recent Star Wars movies (I to III). 3nodding
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Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 7:34 pm
What if you're using just one opponent and you already know them well enough to engage these two characters in battle? This isn't the climax, but it's definitely close enough to it that everything that comes after has to be bigger and better. For example, I'd write something like this:
He ploughed towards Aislin with the lightening speed he’d become accustomed to using. Taurus put everything he had into the attack. His magic lit the skies in a burst of bright red sparks. Aislin countered with her own purple light, narrowly escaping being sliced to pieces. Around them, trees were falling to the ground, splintering into a thousand tiny pieces. Feathers from birds rained down as their carcasses roasted in the heat. Still Taurus fought in a whirlwind of magic, spurting blasts of wind, levitating rocks, uprooting trees and flinging boulders towards his opponent.
I write from a third person omniscient point of view, where I engage the environment around my characters, their feelings and emotions, and their actions. They both have a certain amount of magic to their disposal, while Taurus has all the powers of a nature mage, wizard and more, my goddess is luck, dreams and more than that in itself. She has the ability of illusion, creating solid objects out of nothing, even trapping her opponents in their own minds if she's in that frame of mind. But she won't in this battle, because she needs the MC.
How does this sort of action scene sound to you? I think it needs improvement, and it's only half an hours worth of work maybe.
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Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 9:27 pm
DM_Melkhar However, as the pirate is a phenomenal escape artist, it might be more amusing for him to avoid the fight this time despite him being just as good in combat as the main character; but with a different style of course.
The pirate is also flamboyant and he and his warrior friend are meant to be the comic relief. Hmm. Seems to me like there's your answer, right there. It's pretty rare for the character of focus (which isn't necessarily the main character) to be his own comic relief. If the pirate is supposed to be, at the moment, somewhat goofy, I would focus in on the point of view of the mercenary for this scene at least. It would let him be goofy without being too jarring on the reader (for instance, if the reader is not privy to his every thought, it's less likely they'll be left thinking "good grief, why is he being so silly all of a sudden!?!"). If where you're going with the pirate character is where I would go, that he's only goofy on the outside and is actually a far deeper character, I'd say let him be goofy in the eyes of the other characters but not in the eyes of the readers. If you're following his point of view, do it at moments when he's not being the comic relief. When he is being goofy, don't put the readers inside his head. Long story short, I think I would go with the point of view of the mercenary. Berz.
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Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 6:02 am
Berzerker_prime DM_Melkhar However, as the pirate is a phenomenal escape artist, it might be more amusing for him to avoid the fight this time despite him being just as good in combat as the main character; but with a different style of course.
The pirate is also flamboyant and he and his warrior friend are meant to be the comic relief. Hmm. Seems to me like there's your answer, right there. It's pretty rare for the character of focus (which isn't necessarily the main character) to be his own comic relief. If the pirate is supposed to be, at the moment, somewhat goofy, I would focus in on the point of view of the mercenary for this scene at least. It would let him be goofy without being too jarring on the reader (for instance, if the reader is not privy to his every thought, it's less likely they'll be left thinking "good grief, why is he being so silly all of a sudden!?!"). If where you're going with the pirate character is where I would go, that he's only goofy on the outside and is actually a far deeper character, I'd say let him be goofy in the eyes of the other characters but not in the eyes of the readers. If you're following his point of view, do it at moments when he's not being the comic relief. When he is being goofy, don't put the readers inside his head. Long story short, I think I would go with the point of view of the mercenary. Berz.
Anyway, he IS a much deeper character. He's one of those light-hearted, cheerful guys who's had a traumatic event happen in his childhood. In his case, he lost his entire family. His crew respect him because he respects them and doesn't torture them like a lot of other captains would. He'll discipline them, but doesn't go overboard (excuse the pun) with punishments unless absolutely necessary. He's cunning, very clever, flamboyant, charismatic, and in some ways narcissistic because women LOVE him and he is extremely dashing.
The mercenary on the other hand, is stern, likes to get work done before he relaxes, doesn't talk much about himself, can be quite callous and hard-hearted, and where he knows what he doesn't want to do, his magic-wielding companion is the voice of reason that usually says "let's give them a chance" whereas he tends to be like Cloud from FFVII saying "not interested". Funny...Cloud is also a mercenary. My guy's always beena mercenary though, and they can be quite fun as main characters if you give them a chance.
I know you said to go with his POV, but I'm actually going to try to write it from both. I think I'm going to leave them getting into a scrap for now because where the mercenary uses a single, straight, one-handed blade, the pirate uses two scimitars that look like this - http://www.andreas.blicher.info/images/Scimitar.jpg
Both of them are masters in their chosen styles and they'll both end up getting hurt too early on. It doesn't change the fact that writing a scuffle between them isn't going to be easy though.
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Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 1:58 pm
Also....can someone give me some ideas of how to begin a fight?
Yeah, I decided to do a small scuffle in the end...
What I mean is...how a first move is best done.
At this moment in time, I've written it like this (again I've just used the character's initials)...DM_Melkhar LS swivelled on the balls of his feet and cross-blocked with both blades so ZK’s sword became trapped between them when he made an attempt to strike.
“So you’re the greatest swordsman in Armaran are you?” LS asked.
“Apparently,” ZK growled in response. “Would you rather die now or on the gallows?”
“You mean you’re givin’ me a choice?” LS smirked as he spoke. “How kind of you, but I don’t fancy either.” He released his hold on ZK’s sword and stepped back, holding one scimitar out in front of him and the other over his head. With only a kite-shaped buckler on his right arm to defend, ZK knew he’d be putting his skills to the test.
Suggestions are good, BUT if anyone is able to post any extracts from other authors that I can use for inspiration and/or tact I'd be most grateful.
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Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 8:36 pm
My first impression is that the passage is a little impersonal. It's very descriptive, which is good. I have a clear idea of what is physically happening. But, in my brain, the characters both have completely blank looks on their faces. It's as if their bodies are engaged in the fight, but their minds aren't. A fight of this sort is as much about a clash of characters as it is about a clash of steel. It's the characters themselves that will determine how dirty or honorable a fight will be, how flamboyant it will get, or how far the characters are willing to take it. It will also determine how the fight will end. One character could, for example, be simply fighting long enough to find a way to escape while the other is all-out fighting to kill or maim. The one trying to escape will then take measures to try and slow down or confuse his opponent, sometimes using his surroundings.
I would say think about the characters attitudes toward this fight. Who would make the first move? Why? And what sort of first move would that be? You can then move on to how the other guy would react and so forth. Swordplay has a very back and forth nature to it, much like a debate.
Also, just one technical thing to point out from someone who has fought with a sword and buckler. It's really not at as much of a disadvantage against two swords as you might think. In fact, bucklers are best used somewhat aggressively as their primary use is to engage a weapon and keep it busy. You typically do that by pressing on your opponent's sword with the buckler and doing your best to keep it there by moving it around with the sword it's engaged with, thus keeping a measure of control over where the sword goes. The fight then more or less returns to single sword versus single sword. And since scimitars are primarily slashing weapons, ZK will have a bit of time to get his buckler into place in the first place and could easily move on from there.
Berz.
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Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 1:26 pm
Thanks for the feedback Berz.
This fight works, but I'm not sure if it works where I've placed it. I'm getting this so often at the moment that it's bugging the heck out of me. burning_eyes
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