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 Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:55 pm
Part-Time Viking HistoryWak Part-Time Viking You want one reason why DVD can't last forever? I'll give you several. 1) Capacity is a clear and obvious one, with everything moving to High Definition now, DVD 9 and it's measly 9.4 gigs will not cut it for much longer for both movies and games. I could easily see Halo 3 benefiting greatly from having a larger capacity to put the game on, not only from a visual or cinematic standpoint, but from a content standpoint as well... Many games can benefit from larger storage capacities as well. Gears of War is rather lacking in the content department mostly due to the small capacity of DVD9. Not just games either, movies are utilizing the fact that HDTV's are becoming cheaper too, 5.1 and 7.1 surround sound systems are coming down as well, the home theater experience is becoming more and more affordable every day. With High Definition Digital movie making taking over the only way to really fit it onto a DVD9 is too make multiple discs, and lets face it, people are lazy, it really sucks needing to switch discs in the middle of a movie (I'm looking at YOU LotR's). Bottom line here, More storage is necessary now. DVD9's are not capable of getting any more layers added onto it effectively. 2) Technology has progressed further in the past five years than the previous thirty before it. A lot of it has to do with the internet making it's mark of the industrialized nations of the world, and with high end technology making it to the market quickly, and dropping costs nearly as fast. Having a generation of the tech savvy also does not hurt. Sure, DVD9 may not be broken, but it's certainly outdated, and will soon be obsolete. 3) Many have suggested that downloads will replace hard copies of media soon, and I just don't see that as a possibility yet, not only is the internet insecure as far as all of that goes, but the average consumers storage capacity for such is minimal at best. And Piracy is a problem, companies want to be able to protect and guarantee that people have paid for their s**t. Sure, piracy is a small problem now but if everything suddenly went downloadable than that would all go to hell real fast. BTW, Blu-Ray is beating the pants off of HD DVD because of more support, The HD DVD camp had to BUY support rather than just get it like the Blu-Ray camp has... Another plus to the Blu-Ray side is that the company that makes it is also one of the biggest and most powerful movie publishing/producing companies in the world, Toshiba is not. Companies like Universal which for some reason or another refuse to have anything to do with Sony was the only company siding with HD DVD from the get-go, Viacom only joined up because their CEO is classic Hollywood and only speaks money. Your right though, the average consumer is not HD yet, but that is largely due to it still being kinda pricey, but that will change. I'll pray to God that 3 never ever happens! Don't get me wrong, I forsee downloads being the key future for music, but for movies and games, it's just not likely in the near future... So were my reasons good enough? Yes they were. I'd rather it happen to movies that Music actually. Music is my life. My hobbies revolve around watching concerts, playing records/cds, collecting band merchandise, member/captain/VC of multiple band guilds. No more music hard copies would be devastating to me. If downloading music is an alternate option that's one thing. If it's the only option for games just say then the video game stores will be threatened/go out of business and there will be lawsuits about controlling the market and such (This was discussed in the sticky). With Movies and Games the argument against downloading is isolating the market, etc. With Music mostly as well as movies have the argument over quality. Questions being are CD's better quality than mp3's etc? I have heard through my ears (though some may not) a sound quality difference from a regular CD and music burnt to a CD-R and from a CD to an I-pod. The CD sounds better in both cases. The same player was used in each case. With movies they same question comes up whether the quality DL is the same as a physical form. There would be hard drive issues with that though. It looses the fun in all three as there's no running to the store to get a new CD, Movie, or Game that comes out. Also I won't to pay for something I can't actually hold in my hand . (Obvious things like bills and collectible items aside.) If I spend just say $14.99 on a complete album online I want more than just music files on my computer or I-pod. I want something tangible.
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Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:04 pm
HistoryWak Part-Time Viking HistoryWak Part-Time Viking You want one reason why DVD can't last forever? I'll give you several. 1) Capacity is a clear and obvious one, with everything moving to High Definition now, DVD 9 and it's measly 9.4 gigs will not cut it for much longer for both movies and games. I could easily see Halo 3 benefiting greatly from having a larger capacity to put the game on, not only from a visual or cinematic standpoint, but from a content standpoint as well... Many games can benefit from larger storage capacities as well. Gears of War is rather lacking in the content department mostly due to the small capacity of DVD9. Not just games either, movies are utilizing the fact that HDTV's are becoming cheaper too, 5.1 and 7.1 surround sound systems are coming down as well, the home theater experience is becoming more and more affordable every day. With High Definition Digital movie making taking over the only way to really fit it onto a DVD9 is too make multiple discs, and lets face it, people are lazy, it really sucks needing to switch discs in the middle of a movie (I'm looking at YOU LotR's). Bottom line here, More storage is necessary now. DVD9's are not capable of getting any more layers added onto it effectively. 2) Technology has progressed further in the past five years than the previous thirty before it. A lot of it has to do with the internet making it's mark of the industrialized nations of the world, and with high end technology making it to the market quickly, and dropping costs nearly as fast. Having a generation of the tech savvy also does not hurt. Sure, DVD9 may not be broken, but it's certainly outdated, and will soon be obsolete. 3) Many have suggested that downloads will replace hard copies of media soon, and I just don't see that as a possibility yet, not only is the internet insecure as far as all of that goes, but the average consumers storage capacity for such is minimal at best. And Piracy is a problem, companies want to be able to protect and guarantee that people have paid for their s**t. Sure, piracy is a small problem now but if everything suddenly went downloadable than that would all go to hell real fast. BTW, Blu-Ray is beating the pants off of HD DVD because of more support, The HD DVD camp had to BUY support rather than just get it like the Blu-Ray camp has... Another plus to the Blu-Ray side is that the company that makes it is also one of the biggest and most powerful movie publishing/producing companies in the world, Toshiba is not. Companies like Universal which for some reason or another refuse to have anything to do with Sony was the only company siding with HD DVD from the get-go, Viacom only joined up because their CEO is classic Hollywood and only speaks money. Your right though, the average consumer is not HD yet, but that is largely due to it still being kinda pricey, but that will change. I'll pray to God that 3 never ever happens! Don't get me wrong, I forsee downloads being the key future for music, but for movies and games, it's just not likely in the near future... So were my reasons good enough? Yes they were. I'd rather it happen to movies that Music actually. Music is my life. My hobbies revolve around watching concerts, playing records/cds, collecting band merchandise, member/captain/VC of multiple band guilds. No more music hard copies would be devastating to me. If downloading music is an alternate option that's one thing. If it's the only option for games just say then the video game stores will be threatened/go out of business and there will be lawsuits about controlling the market and such (This was discussed in the sticky). With Movies and Games the argument against downloading is isolating the market, etc. With Music mostly as well as movies have the argument over quality. Questions being are CD's better quality than mp3's etc? I have heard through my ears (though some may not) a sound quality difference from a regular CD and music burnt to a CD-R and from a CD to an I-pod. The CD sounds better in both cases. The same player was used in each case. With movies they same question comes up whether the quality DL is the same as a physical form. There would be hard drive issues with that though. It looses the fun in all three as there's no running to the store to get a new CD, Movie, or Game that comes out. Unfortunately, the music industry is suffering due to the high piracy rate of their stuff, music is easy as hell to pirate, so the industry will need to either figure out a way to watermark their music and cripple the MP3 player market, or cut prices of their downloads and offer it via the internet. I'm pretty firmly against any kind of widescale support of downloads though, largely due to how many viruses and trojans can get into your computer with reckless downloading with programs like Limewire, Bearshare and torrents. BTW, there are ways to increase the quality of the audio outside of the capabilities of MP3 players, good headphones and earbuds are nice. In other news, this guilds friendly neighborhood Geek Squad agent is now a full-time Sales Operator, now in command of four others in the store.
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Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:48 pm
A thought occurs: In going from DVDs (which use a red laser) to Blu-Rays (which uses a blue laser) we have gone from one side of the visible spectrum to the other very quickly. Why? Shouldn't it be cheaper to produce, say, a yellow-ray and yellow-ray disks? We could bypass this whole "ZOMG, PS3 is 2 expensiv!) crap if a more gradual progression was made. Besides, I fear developers will favor improving graphics over lengthening games when there's such a large leap in storage.
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Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 7:14 pm
Part-Time Viking HistoryWak Part-Time Viking HistoryWak Part-Time Viking You want one reason why DVD can't last forever? I'll give you several. 1) Capacity is a clear and obvious one, with everything moving to High Definition now, DVD 9 and it's measly 9.4 gigs will not cut it for much longer for both movies and games. I could easily see Halo 3 benefiting greatly from having a larger capacity to put the game on, not only from a visual or cinematic standpoint, but from a content standpoint as well... Many games can benefit from larger storage capacities as well. Gears of War is rather lacking in the content department mostly due to the small capacity of DVD9. Not just games either, movies are utilizing the fact that HDTV's are becoming cheaper too, 5.1 and 7.1 surround sound systems are coming down as well, the home theater experience is becoming more and more affordable every day. With High Definition Digital movie making taking over the only way to really fit it onto a DVD9 is too make multiple discs, and lets face it, people are lazy, it really sucks needing to switch discs in the middle of a movie (I'm looking at YOU LotR's). Bottom line here, More storage is necessary now. DVD9's are not capable of getting any more layers added onto it effectively. 2) Technology has progressed further in the past five years than the previous thirty before it. A lot of it has to do with the internet making it's mark of the industrialized nations of the world, and with high end technology making it to the market quickly, and dropping costs nearly as fast. Having a generation of the tech savvy also does not hurt. Sure, DVD9 may not be broken, but it's certainly outdated, and will soon be obsolete. 3) Many have suggested that downloads will replace hard copies of media soon, and I just don't see that as a possibility yet, not only is the internet insecure as far as all of that goes, but the average consumers storage capacity for such is minimal at best. And Piracy is a problem, companies want to be able to protect and guarantee that people have paid for their s**t. Sure, piracy is a small problem now but if everything suddenly went downloadable than that would all go to hell real fast. BTW, Blu-Ray is beating the pants off of HD DVD because of more support, The HD DVD camp had to BUY support rather than just get it like the Blu-Ray camp has... Another plus to the Blu-Ray side is that the company that makes it is also one of the biggest and most powerful movie publishing/producing companies in the world, Toshiba is not. Companies like Universal which for some reason or another refuse to have anything to do with Sony was the only company siding with HD DVD from the get-go, Viacom only joined up because their CEO is classic Hollywood and only speaks money. Your right though, the average consumer is not HD yet, but that is largely due to it still being kinda pricey, but that will change. I'll pray to God that 3 never ever happens! Don't get me wrong, I forsee downloads being the key future for music, but for movies and games, it's just not likely in the near future... So were my reasons good enough? Yes they were. I'd rather it happen to movies that Music actually. Music is my life. My hobbies revolve around watching concerts, playing records/cds, collecting band merchandise, member/captain/VC of multiple band guilds. No more music hard copies would be devastating to me. If downloading music is an alternate option that's one thing. If it's the only option for games just say then the video game stores will be threatened/go out of business and there will be lawsuits about controlling the market and such (This was discussed in the sticky). With Movies and Games the argument against downloading is isolating the market, etc. With Music mostly as well as movies have the argument over quality. Questions being are CD's better quality than mp3's etc? I have heard through my ears (though some may not) a sound quality difference from a regular CD and music burnt to a CD-R and from a CD to an I-pod. The CD sounds better in both cases. The same player was used in each case. With movies they same question comes up whether the quality DL is the same as a physical form. There would be hard drive issues with that though. It looses the fun in all three as there's no running to the store to get a new CD, Movie, or Game that comes out. Unfortunately, the music industry is suffering due to the high piracy rate of their stuff, music is easy as hell to pirate, so the industry will need to either figure out a way to watermark their music and cripple the MP3 player market, or cut prices of their downloads and offer it via the internet. I'm pretty firmly against any kind of widescale support of downloads though, largely due to how many viruses and trojans can get into your computer with reckless downloading with programs like Limewire, Bearshare and torrents. BTW, there are ways to increase the quality of the audio outside of the capabilities of MP3 players, good headphones and earbuds are nice. In other news, this guilds friendly neighborhood Geek Squad agent is now a full-time Sales Operator, now in command of four others in the store. Nice, congrats! cool On the note of piracy, it's also going on because CDs are too expensive. I've seen average one disk CD's sell from any where between $13.99-$18.99. (FYE and Sam Goody are two stores whose CDs range around $16.99 to $18.99) Plus tax on those is basically $20. $20 is a lot for 1 CD. (Best Buy, Circuit City, Target, and Walmart are at the $13.99-$15.99 range) I've seen people say they do it because of the price. If they lowered their prices they would get more sales. Small used CD shops are the best for price and selection IMO but I've seen a few close up probably due to lack of customers. Only the semi-popular ones are still open.
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Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 7:49 pm
Man, what's with you and music piracy, Wak? The best music nowadays is on Videogames, anyways.
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Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:23 pm
The thing is that the universal trend of entertainment in general is to make everything downloadable. For example, there are many game for the PC that are downloadable, the Xbox 360 and PS3 also has many old and small games that are downloadable, the Wii has some old games that are downloadable. In fact, Warhawk which is a full PS3 game is downloadable and can be bought in a store. If this keeps up, then all games even new ones will be downloadable for every system. I am not saying it could happen, I am saying this is where we are headed. The HD DVD and Blueray war will be the last format war, which will be replaced with downloadable versions.
Now stores that sell these formats could go out of business, or they can modernize by having Wi-Fi or downloading stations which make people pay per download.
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Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 5:02 am
Griggle990 The thing is that the universal trend of entertainment in general is to make everything downloadable. For example, there are many game for the PC that are downloadable, the Xbox 360 and PS3 also has many old and small games that are downloadable, the Wii has some old games that are downloadable. In fact, Warhawk which is a full PS3 game is downloadable and can be bought in a store. If this keeps up, then all games even new ones will be downloadable for every system. I am not saying it could happen, I am saying this is where we are headed. The HD DVD and Blueray war will be the last format war, which will be replaced with downloadable versions. Now stores that sell these formats could go out of business, or they can modernize by having Wi-Fi or downloading stations which make people pay per download. That one won't happen for several reasons including ones Viking said. @Tango: Music is a passion of mine and I don't want the industry tarnished any more that it already is. Downloading music as it is outside of illegal activities from itunes and FYE and such. You know, FYE pisses me off because they and Samgoody who they are partnered with actually have their CDs priced higher than any other place I've seen. They offer downloading on their websites for the same albums for $9.99 downloaded instead of $16.99-18.99 for it as a CD. They overprice the CDs so they can encourage downloading. I was in Samgoody and a sale's person came up to make while I was looking at CD's and asked me if I wanted to download a CD for half the price of what it would be on CD. The irony with that is I can go else where and get it very close to or the same price as the download. Other places are offering bought downloads as well but their CDs aren't nearly as high. Music Downloading is ******** up the music market. While Blu-ray and HD DVD are at least offering better quality no doubt, downloading is offering less quality for a cheaper price and the cheaper price is very attractive and people are doing that because of it. If the Music Companies were smart they'd see why they are losing album sales which actually made some smaller labels go out of business or get swallowed up. (Probably from Sony as they created their music company by buying out others. The money Sony makes from the music industry comes from bands who were signed to Columbia who now through the purchase are in turn signed to Sony via Columbia or others.) Downloading in general is damaging all markets (music, movies, games) You guys saw the PS1 piracy problems years ago. As the content was on a CD it was very easy to DL a PS1 game. Same might have happened with PS2 games through DVD burning but I don't know.
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Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 8:57 am
HistoryWak Griggle990 The thing is that the universal trend of entertainment in general is to make everything downloadable. For example, there are many game for the PC that are downloadable, the Xbox 360 and PS3 also has many old and small games that are downloadable, the Wii has some old games that are downloadable. In fact, Warhawk which is a full PS3 game is downloadable and can be bought in a store. If this keeps up, then all games even new ones will be downloadable for every system. I am not saying it could happen, I am saying this is where we are headed. The HD DVD and Blueray war will be the last format war, which will be replaced with downloadable versions. Now stores that sell these formats could go out of business, or they can modernize by having Wi-Fi or downloading stations which make people pay per download. That one won't happen for several reasons including ones Viking said. @Tango: Music is a passion of mine and I don't want the industry tarnished any more that it already is. Downloading music as it is outside of illegal activities from itunes and FYE and such. You know, FYE pisses me off because they and Samgoody who they are partnered with actually have their CDs priced higher than any other place I've seen. They offer downloading on their websites for the same albums for $9.99 downloaded instead of $16.99-18.99 for it as a CD. They overprice the CDs so they can encourage downloading. I was in Samgoody and a sale's person came up to make while I was looking at CD's and asked me if I wanted to download a CD for half the price of what it would be on CD. The irony with that is I can go else where and get it very close to or the same price as the download. Other places are offering bought downloads as well but their CDs aren't nearly as high. Music Downloading is ******** up the music market. While Blu-ray and HD DVD are at least offering better quality no doubt, downloading is offering less quality for a cheaper price and the cheaper price is very attractive and people are doing that because of it. If the Music Companies were smart they'd see why they are losing album sales which actually made some smaller labels go out of business or get swallowed up. (Probably from Sony as they created their music company by buying out others. The money Sony makes from the music industry comes from bands who were signed to Columbia who now through the purchase are in turn signed to Sony via Columbia or others.) Downloading in general is damaging all markets (music, movies, games) You guys saw the PS1 piracy problems years ago. As the content was on a CD it was very easy to DL a PS1 game. Same might have happened with PS2 games through DVD burning but I don't know. Now I didn't say that Downloading is a good thing, it’s just that we are heading at that direction. Eventually Downloading music and movies will have the same quality as a CD, DVD, or even an HD-DVD. SO this is where we are headed, so you could keep up with the times, or you could just not buy new movies, music and games.
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Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 11:09 am
Griggle990 Eventually Downloading music and movies will have the same quality as a CD, DVD, or even an HD-DVD.
Ever hear of DVD rip? As for music, MP3 sounds just as good as a CD.
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Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 11:39 am
Ace Paladin Griggle990 Eventually Downloading music and movies will have the same quality as a CD, DVD, or even an HD-DVD.
Ever hear of DVD rip? As for music, MP3 sounds just as good as a CD.I'm not going to argue about it but no it doesn't sound as good. I played both back to back and CD is definitely clearer sounding. It is of poorer quality as well. It's compressed and to me the difference is noticeable. You may not hear it but I do so let's leave it at that. I'm putting this thread to rest.
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Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 11:54 am
HistoryWak Ace Paladin Griggle990 Eventually Downloading music and movies will have the same quality as a CD, DVD, or even an HD-DVD.
Ever hear of DVD rip? As for music, MP3 sounds just as good as a CD.I'm not going to argue about it but no it doesn't sound as good. I played both back to back and CD is definitely clearer sounding. It is of poorer quality as well. It's compressed and to me the difference is noticeable. You may not hear it but I do so let's leave it at that. I'm putting this thread to rest. Some digital formats actually sound better than CDs. Example: I've ripped my whole CD collection to my PS3 HDD and when I listen to the tracks, it's like I'm hearing all new music it sounds so gorgeous. And it's not like I have a great sound system, just basic stereo. Of course, the songs are stuck on my HDD, but...
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Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 1:48 pm
Arvis_Jaggamar HistoryWak Ace Paladin Griggle990 Eventually Downloading music and movies will have the same quality as a CD, DVD, or even an HD-DVD.
Ever hear of DVD rip? As for music, MP3 sounds just as good as a CD.I'm not going to argue about it but no it doesn't sound as good. I played both back to back and CD is definitely clearer sounding. It is of poorer quality as well. It's compressed and to me the difference is noticeable. You may not hear it but I do so let's leave it at that. I'm putting this thread to rest. Some digital formats actually sound better than CDs. Example: I've ripped my whole CD collection to my PS3 HDD and when I listen to the tracks, it's like I'm hearing all new music it sounds so gorgeous. And it's not like I have a great sound system, just basic stereo. Of course, the songs are stuck on my HDD, but... I know that but mp3 isn't. Some hardcore sound enthusiasts say Vinyl has a better sound to it but I won't touch that argument. You know as well as I that compressed formats aren't good. You saw Canis talking about compression on DVD while with Blu-ray and HD DVD there is none and it makes the quality better. SACD is actually really good. I actually have a hybrid in which can be played on a regular CD player and a SACD player with full SACD sound. I also have a CD with a gold coated disk which supposedly gives better sound as well. The medium plays a part in how good it sounds. Look at Cassette vs CD. Players play a part too. What sounds better from your computer or from your entertainment system via a console or stand alone player with good speakers. I can go in depth with this and discuss what types of speakers are better but I won't go there. Music has been degraded to a list of files that don't even have the same value (not monetary but quality but personal) as a CD with a booklet with band pics etc. What is the industry really coming to when a singer or band releases new songs and you just go on and download it. That's real fun and exciting. rolleyes I feel like I have something of quality and value when I buy a CD. I don't feel it has a sense of value when downloaded. When you come down to it you are buying a file. How special is a file? People are willing to sacrifice quality for convenience and price. Here's a video of an interview with Tower Records' founder on its rise & fall. He talks about some of the things I mentioned and more. Tower Records' founder on its rise & fall
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Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 2:21 pm
HistoryWak Ace Paladin Griggle990 Eventually Downloading music and movies will have the same quality as a CD, DVD, or even an HD-DVD.
Ever hear of DVD rip? As for music, MP3 sounds just as good as a CD.I'm not going to argue about it but no it doesn't sound as good. I played both back to back and CD is definitely clearer sounding. It is of poorer quality as well. It's compressed and to me the difference is noticeable. You may not hear it but I do so let's leave it at that. I'm putting this thread to rest. I wanna find something I've wanted all along.... Question 1: Was the MP3 a rip from the CD itself or downloaded from the internet? If not, debunked immediately Question 2: If it was a rip from the CD, what quality was it ripped at? 128kbps, 320kbps? The Bitrate can make a huge difference. There is also the fact that MP3 isn't the only format out there. I prefer OGG Vorbis because it can have better quality than MP3's. But even so, when ripping CD's and having MP3's at the highest encoding quality, it actually sounds better than the CD to me. The bitrate makes a huge difference Wak. ....Somewhere I belong
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Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:15 pm
Canis Lupus the LoneWolf HistoryWak Ace Paladin Griggle990 Eventually Downloading music and movies will have the same quality as a CD, DVD, or even an HD-DVD.
Ever hear of DVD rip? As for music, MP3 sounds just as good as a CD.I'm not going to argue about it but no it doesn't sound as good. I played both back to back and CD is definitely clearer sounding. It is of poorer quality as well. It's compressed and to me the difference is noticeable. You may not hear it but I do so let's leave it at that. I'm putting this thread to rest. I wanna find something I've wanted all along.... Question 1: Was the MP3 a rip from the CD itself or downloaded from the internet? If not, debunked immediately Question 2: If it was a rip from the CD, what quality was it ripped at? 128kbps, 320kbps? The Bitrate can make a huge difference. There is also the fact that MP3 isn't the only format out there. I prefer OGG Vorbis because it can have better quality than MP3's. But even so, when ripping CD's and having MP3's at the highest encoding quality, it actually sounds better than the CD to me. The bitrate makes a huge difference Wak. ....Somewhere I belong *sighs* I'm exhausted. My head hurts. Yes there are better things than CD audio (read above post) No I do not support it in the form of downloads. If they can put that file on a physical format. (SACD is amazing yet never took off as expected) Having it in the form of downloads is what I don't like. When I buy music I want it in a physical form. I do not want to buy a mere file. That's the bottom line.
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