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lordstar

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:12 pm


PhaseBurn
lordstar
PhaseBurn, if your third option was rebirth insted of simply fading into nothingness how would that make you feel? (just a face value Q for a face value A)


Still would be against it. It would feel too much like running around in circles to me (same reason I don't like Nascar razz )


on the up side
it would give you a lot of time to find your happy place
who knows what you might find the second time around ya

you seem like a fairly happy person but you say your not
what makes you so unhappy

*is also not a fan of Nascar*
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:27 pm


PhaseBurn
Because knowledge and understanding is power. By being constrained to a specific fact that people are unable (or unwilling) to question, they must reject all knowldge/science that contradicts that specific fact.

Science offer proof that the Earth is billions of years old. Most Christians believe the world is a few thousand years old, and that mankind and dinosaurs lived side by side.

In that respect, to them my "proof" is flawed, and their "belief" is right, even though they have no proof to back it up nor can they dispute the validity of my findings with anything other than "Your data is faulty."

The majority of religions encourage faith and belief with out proof. At some point, though, those religions would have its members believe that they are right, and others who don't share their beliefs are wrong. When 2 different faiths each believe they're right and each other is wrong, isn't each living in ignorance, thinking the other is wrong and not even considering the possibility that we're all human, and maybe we're both right, or both wrong? That's hypocritical self-deceit right there - deceiving onself that just because you believe in something, doesn't make it true.

I'm not going to turn this into a debate by saying that Christianity isn't true, or any religion for that, but consider this if you will:

Remember when you believed in Santa Clause? Doesn't mean there's a fat dude breaking into your house every year through a chimney. Just because you believe in something, that doesn't make it true. When you do believe in something that isn't true, however, you're being hypocritical of others thinking that you're right, and thus they can't be, and, you're full of self-deceit by being too sure of yourself and your beliefs to consider any other possibility.

Now, take the above scenario with Santa Clause and remember how you'd have reacted (or if you have young children, how they'd react) to the idea that Santa doesn't exist. Now, apply it to yourself with regards to faith. You're so sure you're right (and again, I'm not saying you aren't), that you're probably unwilling to consider the possibility that somebody else may be right as well, or that you're wrong, or a million other things. Further more, your faith teaches you not to question it. There's no loophole, you have to believe it and you cannot consider another's point of view to be truthful if it differs from your own.

That's what it mens by hypocritical self-deceit. And that's why I dislike most religions. My religion makes every allowance for yours to be right. I'm still happy with it. The only goal in my faith is to be a good person. Christianity, Islam, even the Jewish faith, all require you to accept that, and that only as the one and only possible truth. Well, lets face it, you can't *all* be right. So if Christianity is right after all, the Jews, the Muslims, the Shintos, and everybody else who believes in a god is full of hypocritical self-deceit, because they can't see the forest for the trees, and their mindset is such that they are absolutly right and everybody else isn't. What if Christianity is wrong? Again I'm not saying it is, but what if? How many Christians could honestly see the "proof" and take a leap of faith?





Please note that I am trying as hard as I possibly can to write this in as non-offending a way as possible, but I have to say that a lot of what I believe does contradict other faiths, and thus, it's getting harder and harder to explain it in a way that doesn't make it sound like anybody is wrong. I hope I'm succeeding.


You should look into Creationism. It's all science and they have more proof then evolutionist.
If you were to make it to Heaven you wouldn't be forced to be happy, there would be such great things happening there that you would want to be happy. God likes when we are happy and that is why he made heaven like that.
I also believe that Catholics are crazy, sry but I do. They believe that the pope is special and can talk to God and that they can't. He isn't all that great and I think that they are slow for listening to him. The crusades was a dumb Idea on his behalf.

Kaki Pan


lordstar

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:29 pm


Kaki Pan
PhaseBurn
Because knowledge and understanding is power. By being constrained to a specific fact that people are unable (or unwilling) to question, they must reject all knowldge/science that contradicts that specific fact.

Science offer proof that the Earth is billions of years old. Most Christians believe the world is a few thousand years old, and that mankind and dinosaurs lived side by side.

In that respect, to them my "proof" is flawed, and their "belief" is right, even though they have no proof to back it up nor can they dispute the validity of my findings with anything other than "Your data is faulty."

The majority of religions encourage faith and belief with out proof. At some point, though, those religions would have its members believe that they are right, and others who don't share their beliefs are wrong. When 2 different faiths each believe they're right and each other is wrong, isn't each living in ignorance, thinking the other is wrong and not even considering the possibility that we're all human, and maybe we're both right, or both wrong? That's hypocritical self-deceit right there - deceiving onself that just because you believe in something, doesn't make it true.

I'm not going to turn this into a debate by saying that Christianity isn't true, or any religion for that, but consider this if you will:

Remember when you believed in Santa Clause? Doesn't mean there's a fat dude breaking into your house every year through a chimney. Just because you believe in something, that doesn't make it true. When you do believe in something that isn't true, however, you're being hypocritical of others thinking that you're right, and thus they can't be, and, you're full of self-deceit by being too sure of yourself and your beliefs to consider any other possibility.

Now, take the above scenario with Santa Clause and remember how you'd have reacted (or if you have young children, how they'd react) to the idea that Santa doesn't exist. Now, apply it to yourself with regards to faith. You're so sure you're right (and again, I'm not saying you aren't), that you're probably unwilling to consider the possibility that somebody else may be right as well, or that you're wrong, or a million other things. Further more, your faith teaches you not to question it. There's no loophole, you have to believe it and you cannot consider another's point of view to be truthful if it differs from your own.

That's what it mens by hypocritical self-deceit. And that's why I dislike most religions. My religion makes every allowance for yours to be right. I'm still happy with it. The only goal in my faith is to be a good person. Christianity, Islam, even the Jewish faith, all require you to accept that, and that only as the one and only possible truth. Well, lets face it, you can't *all* be right. So if Christianity is right after all, the Jews, the Muslims, the Shintos, and everybody else who believes in a god is full of hypocritical self-deceit, because they can't see the forest for the trees, and their mindset is such that they are absolutly right and everybody else isn't. What if Christianity is wrong? Again I'm not saying it is, but what if? How many Christians could honestly see the "proof" and take a leap of faith?





Please note that I am trying as hard as I possibly can to write this in as non-offending a way as possible, but I have to say that a lot of what I believe does contradict other faiths, and thus, it's getting harder and harder to explain it in a way that doesn't make it sound like anybody is wrong. I hope I'm succeeding.


You should look into Creationism. It's all science and they have more proof then evolutionist.
If you were to make it to Heaven you wouldn't be forced to be happy, there would be such great things happening there that you would want to be happy. God likes when we are happy and that is why he made heaven like that.
I also believe that Catholics are crazy, sry but I do. They believe that the pope is special and can talk to God and that they can't. He isn't all that great and I think that they are slow for listening to him. The crusades was a dumb Idea on his behalf.


on the + side
at least somthing good came out of the crusades
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:35 pm


lordstar
on the up side
it would give you a lot of time to find your happy place
who knows what you might find the second time around ya


That is, of course, if I remembered everything from my previous life. But if that was the case, I'd be done with high school by 5 years old.

lordstar
you seem like a fairly happy person but you say your not
what makes you so unhappy


Many things, really. There's a lot of stress in my life, most of it by choice. And while I normally wouldn't complain about something I take on by choice, you did ask about it so I will share.

First off, I didn't go into many details about some parts of my life (while I admit I practically wrote a book in a couple posts), but there are some areas I didn't touch on. The result of those... experiences... is that I have very low self esteem, and a "I'm not good enough" complex. That's a big factor in my life, and it isn't something I wish to overcome, either. It makes me strive to be a better person, to prove to myself that I am good enough (though it will never happen), and constantly improve myself on that path. I delight by helping others, because it makes me feel like I'm worth something, even if only for a brief moment. I don't want to lose that. On Gaia, I help a lot of people. I've been known to give out free stuff randomly, I help people in the linux guild I'm in, and I spend a fair bit of energy typing up book-like posts about a variety of subjects of which I have first hand experience. While I may not have a very high post count, the quality of my posts is fairly high.

Off of Gaia, I run an IRC network. I help out a ton of people on there, daily. I break my back for work, frequently, by pulling 36 hour shifts if necessary to cover emergency situations. Am I required to? Certainly not, but it really helps the company (and my coworkers) out.

The rest of the time, when I'm not helping, or bettering myself in some way, I'm a miserable and depressed person. I get like that, because lets face it, I need to sleep, eat, and what not; I can't be running non-stop 24/7.

I'm also obsessive compulsive. This is a plague that haunts me non-stop, and, one of the things I constantly worry about is what's wrong. Not so much in my life, but with my friends, my coworkers, etc. I've noticed that there's *always* something wrong, with somebody, at all times. So if I don't see that, or know about it, I start to panic a little bit, thinking I'm missing clues, and being a lousy friend, etc. Toss all those into a blender, and that's pretty much why I'm not a happy person. The only time I really am happy is when something *is* wrong, because it's the only time I feel useful, helpful, and am ok with myself.

lordstar
*is also not a fan of Nascar*


Yay!

PhaseBurn

IRL Gaian


thrashmetaljunkie

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:09 pm


i dont find it hard to believe that people wouldnt find parts of Christianity acceptable. I'll tell you straight up... half of the christian population disgusts me. They do, as you say, blame satan instead of themselves. I dont blame satan, i hate myself when i screw up, because i know for a fact that i'm a freaking idiot. And i accept that. I do, however, blame satan for other things. the temptation thing is more like... when my gf decides she wants to sit on my lap naked. Yeaaaa... thats my gf's choice, thats not satan, but the temptation in itself is provided by yours truly, satan. The choice is ours, the temptation is his.

i'm generally a very negative person. BUT, i have learned to cope with my retardation and move on. yea, i screw up, great, another dumb thing i've done. repent, and move on. accept the consequence, and hope i dont do the same dumb thing again. i'm not happy with who i am... like you, i only feel useful when i help others.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:09 pm


PhaseBurn
lordstar
on the up side
it would give you a lot of time to find your happy place
who knows what you might find the second time around ya


That is, of course, if I remembered everything from my previous life. But if that was the case, I'd be done with high school by 5 years old.

lordstar
you seem like a fairly happy person but you say your not
what makes you so unhappy


Many things, really. There's a lot of stress in my life, most of it by choice. And while I normally wouldn't complain about something I take on by choice, you did ask about it so I will share.

First off, I didn't go into many details about some parts of my life (while I admit I practically wrote a book in a couple posts), but there are some areas I didn't touch on. The result of those... experiences... is that I have very low self esteem, and a "I'm not good enough" complex. That's a big factor in my life, and it isn't something I wish to overcome, either. It makes me strive to be a better person, to prove to myself that I am good enough (though it will never happen), and constantly improve myself on that path. I delight by helping others, because it makes me feel like I'm worth something, even if only for a brief moment. I don't want to lose that. On Gaia, I help a lot of people. I've been known to give out free stuff randomly, I help people in the linux guild I'm in, and I spend a fair bit of energy typing up book-like posts about a variety of subjects of which I have first hand experience. While I may not have a very high post count, the quality of my posts is fairly high.

Off of Gaia, I run an IRC network. I help out a ton of people on there, daily. I break my back for work, frequently, by pulling 36 hour shifts if necessary to cover emergency situations. Am I required to? Certainly not, but it really helps the company (and my coworkers) out.

The rest of the time, when I'm not helping, or bettering myself in some way, I'm a miserable and depressed person. I get like that, because lets face it, I need to sleep, eat, and what not; I can't be running non-stop 24/7.

I'm also obsessive compulsive. This is a plague that haunts me non-stop, and, one of the things I constantly worry about is what's wrong. Not so much in my life, but with my friends, my coworkers, etc. I've noticed that there's *always* something wrong, with somebody, at all times. So if I don't see that, or know about it, I start to panic a little bit, thinking I'm missing clues, and being a lousy friend, etc. Toss all those into a blender, and that's pretty much why I'm not a happy person. The only time I really am happy is when something *is* wrong, because it's the only time I feel useful, helpful, and am ok with myself.

lordstar
*is also not a fan of Nascar*


Yay!


it seems like you like to fix what is broken
its a quality you and i share

kinda brings me back to my highschool days
people used to call me "the mole" because i was always depressed and would hide my face under my hoodie

im sure there is something that will make you truely happy
just keep your eyes open m8

lordstar


PhaseBurn

IRL Gaian

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:57 pm


thrashmetaljunkie
i dont find it hard to believe that people wouldnt find parts of Christianity acceptable. I'll tell you straight up... half of the christian population disgusts me. They do, as you say, blame satan instead of themselves. I dont blame satan, i hate myself when i screw up, because i know for a fact that i'm a freaking idiot. And i accept that. I do, however, blame satan for other things. the temptation thing is more like... when my gf decides she wants to sit on my lap naked. Yeaaaa... thats my gf's choice, thats not satan, but the temptation in itself is provided by yours truly, satan. The choice is ours, the temptation is his.


And I believe that temptation is simply a matter of our mind wanting for us what will bring us pleasure or satisfaction, be it physical, mental, or emotional. There's nothing *wrong* with that, some may even call it instinct. Imagine if we didn't find sex gratifying or pleasurable, we'd cease to exist as nobody would care to procreate. It's how we control those instincts that matter. But you blame satan for even having them, it seems.

thrashmetaljunkie
i'm generally a very negative person. BUT, i have learned to cope with my retardation and move on. yea, i screw up, great, another dumb thing i've done. repent, and move on. accept the consequence, and hope i dont do the same dumb thing again. i'm not happy with who i am... like you, i only feel useful when i help others.


Yea, I cope with it, and do what I can to fix it. I don't see anything wrong with this (though I've been told many times I should). Oh well. I'm happy this way.

lordstar
it seems like you like to fix what is broken
its a quality you and i share


I personally think it's a good quality to have. Helping mankind, one person at a time, is a very noble and nice thing to aspire to. People who commit injustice are wrong, but I also believe that those who witness injustice and do nothing to stop it or alleviate it are also in the wrong. Of course there's always special circumstances, such as I'm not going to stop a group of 5 armed men from robbing a gas station I'm at, but if somebody falls, I'll stop and help them get up, pick up their stuff, etc. It's the civil thing to do, in my opinion.

lordstar
kinda brings me back to my highschool days
people used to call me "the mole" because i was always depressed and would hide my face under my hoodie


Oh, I stood out like a sore thumb in my high school days, hehe. I won't get into that in too much detail, but I had a reputation for feeling no pain, having no heart, and being afraid of nobody. There was no question that I could be beaten up by anybody in the school, just about, but there was also no question that unless they were willing to kill me, I'd be back again and would make them suffer. Of course, those were only reputations and based on no actual facts, but it got people to leave me alone quite well. I helped those who I considered my friends, but the rest of the school could die in a fire for all I cared. I've changed a lot since those days.

lordstar
im sure there is something that will make you truely happy
just keep your eyes open m8


Maybe there is, but I don't know what it could be. I doubt I'll ever be truly happy in this life, and because of my issues with *being* happy, I'm not so sure I'd want to be - it would constantly be spoiled by doubts and worry all the time. I can't even take a vacation from work with out worrying about what's going on at the office - since it's one of the places I feel the most useful at. Just part of my nature.
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 12:56 am


PhaseBurn


Maybe there is, but I don't know what it could be. I doubt I'll ever be truly happy in this life, and because of my issues with *being* happy, I'm not so sure I'd want to be - it would constantly be spoiled by doubts and worry all the time. I can't even take a vacation from work with out worrying about what's going on at the office - since it's one of the places I feel the most useful at. Just part of my nature.


i did a bit of soul serching a few years back in alaska (i thought it would be cold but i was wrong 102 degrees zOmg)

while i was up there i decided that i wasn't going to doubt myself anymore
but even though i decided not to doubt myself i still do but i don't let it get to me anymore
then again it helped to have a partner that was really supportive
i had this warm feeling that nothing could bring me down
between then and now ive had my ups and downs but im looking forward to feeling that way again

lordstar


PhaseBurn

IRL Gaian

PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 1:36 am


lordstar
i did a bit of soul serching a few years back in alaska (i thought it would be cold but i was wrong 102 degrees zOmg)

while i was up there i decided that i wasn't going to doubt myself anymore
but even though i decided not to doubt myself i still do but i don't let it get to me anymore
then again it helped to have a partner that was really supportive
i had this warm feeling that nothing could bring me down
between then and now ive had my ups and downs but im looking forward to feeling that way again


Hehe, yea, Alaska during the summer can get a little warm. Then again, since I'm from South Florida, I enjoy hot a humid, hehe... Anyway...

I don't see doubting myself as a bad thing. Keeps me honest, keeps me in steady pursuit of that which I think is right. If I'm unsure about myself, I go and better myself so I will be sure next time. Self doubt isn't always a bad thing, in my opinion. As for your partner that was really supportive, that's awesome. I've never been in a relationship where I had that warm feeling you described - then again, I've only been in one relationship and, it didn't go so well. I've avoided them ever since, trying to avoid feeling that way ever again.
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 1:57 am


PhaseBurn
lordstar
i did a bit of soul serching a few years back in alaska (i thought it would be cold but i was wrong 102 degrees zOmg)

while i was up there i decided that i wasn't going to doubt myself anymore
but even though i decided not to doubt myself i still do but i don't let it get to me anymore
then again it helped to have a partner that was really supportive
i had this warm feeling that nothing could bring me down
between then and now ive had my ups and downs but im looking forward to feeling that way again


Hehe, yea, Alaska during the summer can get a little warm. Then again, since I'm from South Florida, I enjoy hot a humid, hehe... Anyway...

I don't see doubting myself as a bad thing. Keeps me honest, keeps me in steady pursuit of that which I think is right. If I'm unsure about myself, I go and better myself so I will be sure next time. Self doubt isn't always a bad thing, in my opinion. As for your partner that was really supportive, that's awesome. I've never been in a relationship where I had that warm feeling you described - then again, I've only been in one relationship and, it didn't go so well. I've avoided them ever since, trying to avoid feeling that way ever again.


perhaps joining a community advancment group might expose you to someone a bit more compatable
someone who understands you and why you do the things you do

as for self doubt i guess a lil bit does't hurt

lordstar


PhaseBurn

IRL Gaian

PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 4:18 am


lordstar
perhaps joining a community advancment group might expose you to someone a bit more compatable
someone who understands you and why you do the things you do


Meh, you assume I'm interested in a relationship at this point. I've given up on any hope of a love life, and since I haven't been *in* a relationship since high school, I'd have no clue how to even attempt to enter the dating world again.

Given my work schedule, and other time constraints, it would be very hard to have a meaningful relationship.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 12:27 pm


Hi!

A couple observations and a couple questions if you don't mind.

1. I see you speak a lot of things being "good" and "bad", things that are "right" and "wrong". What in your oppinion is the source of this bad and good, right and wrong, and how do they dictate how your life is lived? Especially since you've said previously that you don't believe the world to be "black and white".

2. It seems pretty simple to see throughout history that nothing mankind has ever tried has led to things being better. It seems that every generation that comes along believes themselves to be the answer, that they've discovered something new that's sure to do the trick, but then they die off and the sam thing happens all over again. For me, that tells me that things getting better doesn't come from anything man can do. What do you think about that? Also for that matter, why are we all obsessed with things being better? What the heck is "better" and where does that come from?

Without putting my two cents in, I just wondered how you felt about those two observations.

I also second and third that you guys...nascar sucks. wink

Dcaff


kitsunegami

PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 3:17 pm


Dcaff
I also second and third that you guys...nascar sucks. wink


What?! You don't find it exciting to watch overpaid "athletes" drive gas wasting cars in circles thus pointlessly adding to global warming?

Yeah. Me, neither. 8o)
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 5:42 pm


Dcaff
Hi!A couple observations and a couple questions if you don't mind.


I never mind smile

Dcaff
1. I see you speak a lot of things being "good" and "bad", things that are "right" and "wrong". What in your oppinion is the source of this bad and good, right and wrong, and how do they dictate how your life is lived? Especially since you've said previously that you don't believe the world to be "black and white".


I had a very long and detailed post about this somewhere, but for the life of me, I just can't find where I posted it. I'm not even sure it was on Gaia. Might have been DevArt, or some other forum somewhere, I dunno, but anyway, I'll be happy to recreate it here. If by chance you've read it, sorry for repeating myself smile

Good, bad, right, wrong, black, white, etc, all come down to the meaning of life. Yes, nothing quite so simple. So, before I touch on good/bad, etc, let me first explain the meaning of life, as I see it. To me, life is empty and meaningless. The only meaning that life has, is the meaning we give it. I think this quote sums it up best: Light, in the absence of eyes, illuminates nothing. Visible forms are not inherent in the world, but are granted by the act of seeing. Though the world and events do exist independent of mind, they obtain of no meaning in themselves: none that the mind is not guilty of imposing on them. Ask yourself. If a tree falls in the forest, and nobody's around to see it, does it mean anything? Of course there's reasons why it fell, but reasons why and meaning aren't the same thing. Does it mean anything? Nope. Not to anybody. Thinking about it after the fact may instill meaning to you about that event. But you're the only person at that particular moment. Now, if that tree falls over, and kills President Bush who happens to be standing under it, does it mean anything? Depends on if you like Bush. To some people, it will mean "Great, we get a new president, hopefully one who won't be such a bad one". To others it will mean "This sucks, he was a great man!". Of course others will have different meanings based on their own beliefs and opinions. Does it mean anything to some random alien 3 galaxies away (assuming they exist)? Nope. Bush had no effect on his/her/its? life, and given our technological state, couldn't possibly affect his/her/its? life, and thus, that event holds no meaning for that alien what-so-ever. Thus, I say life is empty and meaningless. We give life whatever meaning we're raised to believe, and that is what drives most of us.

So now that I've established the meaning of life, lets look at good and bad. What is good to me, may be bad to you. Since I'm not a Christian, I have no problem with premarital sex. Or pornography. Or a number of things. Now, I might think porn and premarital sex is a good thing - I can satisfy certain urges whenever I get them, and I'm free to copulate with whomever, providing they're interested of course. Some people, however, may think that is a bad thing. It all comes down to "meaning" again. The meaning to me is that I can satisfy my desires and don't have to suffer. The meaning to somebody else is that it's immoral and perverse. Who's to say what is good or bad? What about the war in Iraq? Some people think it's a good thing we're there, some people think it's a bad thing we're there. There is no "good" or "bad" in the world, it's whatever meaning the majority of the world gives the event. If I kill a man, you give it meaning that it's good or bad. That meaning can change, too, as information becomes available. I killed a man. You take it to mean I'm a murderer. The man I killed had a gun and was holding a child rather roughly. I shot him first. Now, it's a good thing, he was trying to harm or possibly kidnap a child. The man was the child's father, and he was protecting her from what he thought was a crazy man trying to hurt her. Now I'm the aggressor again. Meaning changes with every new fact, based on your opinion.

So, if there's no real good or bad, what about evil? I think that "evil" is actually not a real thing - it's a word used to describe somebody's intent. If my goal is to harm somebody, I would use "evil" to describe their motive. Not the act itself, because the act is meaningless by itself, and since our own opinions dictate meaning, it may not be bad to some. Thus, there's no real evil in this world. It's all intent. Intent is what makes us human. Animals don't have intent the way we do. They don't go out of their way to harm each other. Sure they'll steal from each other, sure they'll kill each other, but it's all by a very specific code they have. You won't see an Elephant flying half way around the world just to kill a rhino that insulted its mom last time it was visiting. So since evil doesn't really exist, it's just a measure of one's intent, I don't believe so much in good or bad the same way most people do. Make any sense?

Last, but not least, we cover right and wrong. Now, these are highly subjective terms given to a NUMBER of conditions and the beliefs of the individual. What is wrong to me, may not be wrong to you, and what's right to me, may not be right to you. There was a time, for instance, when it was considered right to enslave other people of a certain race. We look back on those days, and we say they were wrong, yes. But that's looking from our point of view back through time. What will the future say about us? What are we doing that we consider so right, that the next generation will not think as well of? Smoking kinda comes to mind. Of course there's people against smoking, but how many people in this world today find it morally wrong to smoke? Not a whole lot. But, who's to say that in 200 years, that won't be the view? Think about it objectively for a sec - smoking is intentionally putting poison into one's lungs and body. It's been linked to cancer, to death, and a number of other illnesses. It's morally wrong to commit suicide, but isn't that what smoking is? Sure, it won't kill you immediately like a gun to your temple will. But every time you light up, doesn't it kill you slowly? The ancient greeks were a very sexually open society, which included sex with and between children. They thought it was just fine, and there wasn't anything morally wrong with that. These days, it's morally wrong to let a child see their parent's naked body in some households. I read all the time about children aged 10 to 13 who are getting charged with sexually related crimes for playing tag, or basketball, or what not - all regularly hijinks that go on at school, or at least, did when I was a kid. Yes, I touched a girl's backside in tag once or twice, if it was the easiest place to do so. Yes, I'm pretty sure I accidentally put my hand over a girl's breast while trying to block her in a game of basketball at some point during school. Was any of it sexual? Of course not. Did anybody think anything of it at the time? Nope. These days, however, it's a lawsuit waiting to happen. And for those who don't believe me, I can dig up hundreds of stories about it. So, back to "right" and "wrong". Since there's no objective view of what is "right" and "wrong", we're stuck going with the subjective and biased view of whoever's giving meaning to the events. As I'm sure you've picked up by now, I think it's quite unfair to go by that. The only accurate judge in the world, is the intent of the person who performed the action. Did they intend to hurt somebody else? If so, I'd say they were wrong, regardless of the outcome. Did they intend to help somebody out, with less gain to themself than what they provided to somebody else? If so, then I'd say they were right, again, regardless of the outcome. What if they were in it for personal gain, but not at the expense of anybody else? Grey area, depends on their intent of the bigger picture, etc. Either way, I'm not qualified to judge their intent, and everything else is a subjective and biased view. In the extreme cases, such as murder and the like, I can guess their intent fairly well. But it isn't always so clear in rape. Picture this: guy invites girl out to dinner, girl accepts. Girl invites guy over to apartment after dinner, guy accepts. Girl and guy consensually enjoy a night of passion together, at either's request. Guy then doesn't call for 3 days afterwards (as guys do), girl claims rape. Who's wrong, and who's right? Did the guy intend the situation from the start? Did he wine and dine girl specifically to sleep with her? If so, I'd say he is. What if he simply didn't feel they were compatible and couldn't think of a way to tell her so? His intention was honest, and it was circumstantial - I don't feel he's in the wrong about this. It all comes down to intent, which I don't believe is measurable.

That all being said, the only way I *can* live my life is by intending to do what I believe in - helping others, and trying to survive. Everybody is inherently capable of right and wrong, as they're nothing more than actions. It's their intent that matters. I was raised with a strong intent to help others in any way I can, that isn't dangerous or counter productive to my own well being. Good and bad, right and wrong, etc, when taken in this context, also become empty and meaningless. So I don't live my life to do good. I don't live my life trying to avoid the bad. I live my life with the intention of helping others as best I can, and the intention of not hurting anybody if at all possible. Do I always succeed? Of course not. Sometimes I fail quite pathetically. But I stand by my intentions, and even when emotion gets the best of me and I really do intend to harm somebody, I try to take a step back, calm myself down, and remember who I am, what I believe, and I try to let it go. In the event I can't, I try to not intend them too much harm, just enough to teach them a lesson. Nobody's perfect, hehe.

Dcaff
2. It seems pretty simple to see throughout history that nothing mankind has ever tried has led to things being better. It seems that every generation that comes along believes themselves to be the answer, that they've discovered something new that's sure to do the trick, but then they die off and the sam thing happens all over again. For me, that tells me that things getting better doesn't come from anything man can do. What do you think about that? Also for that matter, why are we all obsessed with things being better? What the heck is "better" and where does that come from?


The reason that nothing mankind has ever tried has lead to something better would have to be that mankind has never tried anything. To break it down a bit more accurately, sub-units of mankind have tried to make things better, only to be foiled by other sub-units of mankind to whom the situation would have been made worse, or didn't want to see the original sub-units prosper. For example, Americans have worked long and hard to try for world peace, under our "benevolent" watch. (For references see Vietnam, Desert Storm, Desert Shield, Korea, etc) Other sub-units stopped us, and with good reason I'm sure. They meant well for themselves. Does mankind as a whole care about feeding the hungry in South Africa? No. Does mankind as a whole care about the ozone layer? No. Does mankind as a whole care about anything in the same way? No. So until that happens, nothing will ever come from it. All one sub-unit's attempts will eventually be thwarted by another group. Internal dissent will tear larger sub-units apart. The biggest reason is that everything every major sub-unit has tried has been mostly self-motivated for self-interests. The reason every new generation thinks of themselves as the saviors is simply because they have ideas the previous generation wouldn't listen to. But they fail to account for human nature. The majority of people in this world *are* out for themselves. The majority of people in this world *will* intentionally hurt somebody they don't know/care about if it means their life will be made easier. So long as that mentality exists in sufficient numbers, especially in leadership, mankind is incapable of solving any global issues. That doesn't mean we shouldn't keep trying, though.

As for why everybody is always obsessed with "better", I believe that human beings measure their lives through pain and suffering. Thus, "better" is always on everybody's mind. When you stub your toe, and it hurts, do you think "Gee, I'm really glad I stubbed my toe, because it means I have a toe to stub." or "Man, I hope this pain gets better soon." I don't know of a single person who is glad they stubbed their toe. So everybody's got this mentality of "Life could be better", because it either used to be in some aspect or another, or, they can dream. Likely, both.

Dcaff
Without putting my two cents in, I just wondered how you felt about those two observations.

I also second and third that you guys...nascar sucks. wink


And I hope that my Wall of Text +5 is what you were looking for smile Also, right on biggrin

PhaseBurn

IRL Gaian


Kaki Pan

PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 10:33 pm


I don't believe that humans are the main cause of global warming. biggrin
Reply
*~Let the Fire Fall ~* A Christian Guild

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