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Saiyan Master Vegeta Vice Captain
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 Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 5:03 pm
Saiyan Master Vegeta 2nd: I have no idea what that one proved. 3rd: Still to come. In regards to the I.T. Kamehameha . . . Until you can prove that Superman is INCREDIBLY faster than Cell, you can't say that he'd be able to stop it. And yes, Cell was shocked against Gohan. But you know why? Because he was SSJ2. And posessing NEAR EVEN power to Cell himself. Goku, on the other hand, was much WEAKER than Cell, and they both knew it.
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Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 5:06 pm
How fast was Cell during that Saga? Because later on in DBZ pretty much all the older heroes are dwarfed So yea. mrgreen Superman would be faster than Cell. Cell wasnt even close to light speed or half of that If Goku by the end of the series was lightspeed. Correct? And I'm still not seeing it as anymore than Cell getting caught off Guard. If Cell was as much faster than Goku as You say the moment he reappeard Cell shoul'dve been able to side step..
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Saiyan Master Vegeta Vice Captain
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Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 5:12 pm
Enigma Master Andrew How fast was Cell during that Saga? Because later on in DBZ pretty much all the older heroes are dwarfed So yea. mrgreen Superman would be faster than Cell. Cell wasnt even close to light speed or half of that If Goku by the end of the series was lightspeed. Correct? First off, I have no idea what those clips proved. Second, the difference in speed between a SSJ2 and a SSJ3 isn't that much. By general concensus, Goku was lightspeed at the end of DBZ. Cell, however, would be up there on that kind of speed. Not quite there, but close. Third, the fact that Cell didn't sidestep, nor gets shocked by people weaker than him PROVES that someone with greater speed than Goku can't dodge an attack like that. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think a real speed was given for Superman yet.
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Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 5:15 pm
He could've thought that for all we know.
And, it also seems you are trying to find small bugs to try and discount the entire thing.
What does the dwarfed thing have ANYTHING to dwith the arguement.
Well he could've achieved LS b4 then, the end of the series is not the exact moment he reaches LS. But Goku doesn't need to think/react faster, he jus needs to appear, that is the point. There is no time, its a point blank blast. Even a faster opponent cannot react, how can one that is slower react?
(Where are your speed contentions? I see nothing but "He is faster or he is just as fast, etc.
I just want a little proof.)
PS: This is what part of the alphabet would look like if Q and R were missing.
PPS: Did you see/hear the new Weird Al songs?!
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Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 5:17 pm
First off I'd just like to say that Gohan wasn't near even with Cell, he was way[i/] more powerful than him untill he turned into ultimitly pefect Cell, which was after the "shock" period.
And also, I'm pretty sure it's shown in DB somewhere that DBZ characters can talk as fast as they can move.
Edit:Yep, it shows in the Jakie Chun vs. Krillen fight(which SMV posted scans of earlyer) Roshi spitting on Krillen, which takes only a little more moulth motion then stuttering "Cr Cr Cra...", and, more importantly, asking for a game of rock, paper scizors and counting to 3(via superhuman counting speed!) followed by Krillun cusing.
And Cartoon Shtspeed, so I don't know what you're comparing Cell's speed to.
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Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 5:19 pm
They werent supposed to do anything . Just show you that Superman has come face to face with Planet/Universe destroyers before. Although I can't say how he was beaten because it wasnt shown. As for speed I've already given you a hand speed which you choose to deny. As for flight speed I'd say hes about about 55% as fast as Goku flight wise. If you need me to say it again I will Captain Marvel's lightning strikes instantly after he says "SHAZAAM!" Right? Yet Superman had enough time to break free of Captain Marvel's hold Grab him and let his own attack hit him. The transaction of the lightning strike was show at a slower speed than it ad been the two times before. Meening Superman must've been faster than t. Also about Goku knocking people through mountains. After thinking on it for a bit it sounded kinda as though you guys where saying Supes would'nt be able to do the same. If my memory isnt shot people weaker than TAS Supes strength wise have knocked people through mountains. ( base Strength Hulk or close enough to base strength and Thor.
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Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 5:28 pm
Lightning travels at a little less than half the speed of light, add to that the fact that the lightning had to travel from the sky to an underground tunnel and that puts him nowhere near light speed, abert still really freakn' fast.
As for Hulk and Thor...you had better be talking about cartoon Hulk/Thor, since Comic Hulk is stronger than Goku and cartoon Supes combined and Thor is stronger than Hulk(unless Hulk is really really mad). As for their cartoon incarnations, it's been way to long since I've seen them...
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Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 5:33 pm
Mind you I said Base strenght Hulk. Which meens only 75 tons. I thought that Captain Marvel's lightning poofed above him. Oh well. ** Off to do some calculations. ninja **
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Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 5:47 pm
Again wat was your arguement?
The laser thing?
What do you say about being able to SEE and FOLLOW the lasers with your eyes?
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Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:16 pm
Still waiting for a response to the stats.
And a decent explanation as to how Supes overcomes an I.T. Kamehameha.
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Saiyan Master Vegeta Vice Captain
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Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:38 pm
I've been thinking that over.. And I'm not seeing a match ending blow getting in off of that. As someone stated Gok would hvae to continously adjust the beam to avoid killing Superman or fataly wounding him. That meens it's either one of two things. ( If there's a third please tell me so) Goku would have to fire repeated blasts strengthening each one until it got to the point where he could knock Superman out. Or two doing only one blast and steadily increasing the strength of the blast until it could over come Superman. Both are counterable. The first one Superman would notice the steady increase in power and start to keep Goku as busy as he could Repeated blasts of heat vision aswell as keeeping the distance closed between them. And Rikeen No I cant follow lasers with my eyes because I'm a normal human. That's why it's shown from a slowed down perspective. ** Still waiting to See Goku survive a planet busting hit to his body**
Strength: Goku.
Speed: I believe this goes to Goku but not so fast that Superman wouldnt be able to hit him back .
Durability: I'm seeing it as Superman in some areas and Goku in others. For instance Goku can Survive a hole in his torso then win a tough match and Superman can easily withstand lava while fighting a creature as strong as he is. Goku can take torture to his body while Superman can take unimaginable pain directly to his mind without going insane or dieing and suffering from no lasting effects.
Endurance: About even. Can't really be proven to be superior for either character.
Intelligence: Superman.
Experience: Goku.
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Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 7:29 pm
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Saiyan Master Vegeta Vice Captain
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Saiyan Master Vegeta Vice Captain
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Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 7:35 pm
Going by the stats from both of our perspectives, they overall lean towards Goku. None, however, are by a landslide.
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Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 7:42 pm
Ok now that I buy. Just throwing this out there but arent DBZ attacks planet busting because they have a negative effect with the planets core or something like that or is it Sheer power?
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Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 7:47 pm
I'm not trying to b***h out of this debate by saying this or trying to go back on what I said but. I'm seeing this as more of a tie now depending on which of them does what when. I see it as comeing down to not physically but based on powers in which I believe it's a toss up although I must say 3 times out of five Goku would probably win. However if it came down to Physically just going blow for blow until they're both exaughsterd I see Superman winning the 3 times out of five then.
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