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 Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 2:20 am
In Medias Res IV Imitation Stradivarius In Medias Res IV Imitation Stradivarius In Medias Res IV Imitation Stradivarius Homosexuality is wrong. I've gotten over my shame and I'm willing to admit that I've experienced it first hand. Levitican law forbids it, and in Matthew 5:17-18, Jesus says (in a nutshell) that not only did He fulfill the OT laws, but that every letter of it is to be kept until the day He returns. Uh, Jesus fulfilling the Laws means that you're not to follow them. I'm glad that you're repressing your sexual feelings. You know, you may not have even been homosexual to begin with... hormones do funny things. In fact, you weren't. You can't change your sexuality. You're either lying to yourself or were never gay to begin with. It's nice that you can assume things from you pedastal. Gee, I'm only gay and want to kill myself because of it and have tried to change my sexuality for a very VERY long time. Well, how can you assume things about someone's life - a life I might add, that you have no part of until a half hour ago - and say things like that? Maybe we both should go to some brainwashing clinic and get the queer talked out of us. We cannot change our sexuality. Instead of lying to ourselves and living unhappily we SHOULD be embracing who we are. According to whose philosophy are you getting this from? God tells us to embrace who we are: the new creation in Him. Not the old one that we used to be.
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Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 2:27 am
Imitation Stradivarius In Medias Res IV Imitation Stradivarius In Medias Res IV Imitation Stradivarius It's nice that you can assume things from you pedastal. Gee, I'm only gay and want to kill myself because of it and have tried to change my sexuality for a very VERY long time. Well, how can you assume things about someone's life - a life I might add, that you have no part of until a half hour ago - and say things like that? Maybe we both should go to some brainwashing clinic and get the queer talked out of us. We cannot change our sexuality. Instead of lying to ourselves and living unhappily we SHOULD be embracing who we are. According to whose philosophy are you getting this from? God tells us to embrace who we are: the new creation in Him. Not the old one that we used to be. ... I'm not a Christian.
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Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 2:32 am
In Medias Res IV Imitation Stradivarius In Medias Res IV Imitation Stradivarius In Medias Res IV Imitation Stradivarius It's nice that you can assume things from you pedastal. Gee, I'm only gay and want to kill myself because of it and have tried to change my sexuality for a very VERY long time. Well, how can you assume things about someone's life - a life I might add, that you have no part of until a half hour ago - and say things like that? Maybe we both should go to some brainwashing clinic and get the queer talked out of us. We cannot change our sexuality. Instead of lying to ourselves and living unhappily we SHOULD be embracing who we are. According to whose philosophy are you getting this from? God tells us to embrace who we are: the new creation in Him. Not the old one that we used to be. ... I'm not a Christian. Then why are you debating a tangent of Christian doctrine if you don't know Jesus? Now would be a great time to start. mrgreen
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Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 2:34 am
Imitation Stradivarius In Medias Res IV Imitation Stradivarius In Medias Res IV Imitation Stradivarius Well, how can you assume things about someone's life - a life I might add, that you have no part of until a half hour ago - and say things like that? Maybe we both should go to some brainwashing clinic and get the queer talked out of us. We cannot change our sexuality. Instead of lying to ourselves and living unhappily we SHOULD be embracing who we are. According to whose philosophy are you getting this from? God tells us to embrace who we are: the new creation in Him. Not the old one that we used to be. ... I'm not a Christian. Then why are you debating a tangent of Christian doctrine if you don't know Jesus? Now would be a great time to start. mrgreen *headdesk*, really? What comes to mind when you see Leviticus? Torah! What comes to mind with Torah? JEW! JEWISH! I don't need Jesus, he is not my moshiach, I have Hashem.
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Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 2:45 am
In Medias Res IV Imitation Stradivarius In Medias Res IV Imitation Stradivarius In Medias Res IV Imitation Stradivarius Well, how can you assume things about someone's life - a life I might add, that you have no part of until a half hour ago - and say things like that? Maybe we both should go to some brainwashing clinic and get the queer talked out of us. We cannot change our sexuality. Instead of lying to ourselves and living unhappily we SHOULD be embracing who we are. According to whose philosophy are you getting this from? God tells us to embrace who we are: the new creation in Him. Not the old one that we used to be. ... I'm not a Christian. Then why are you debating a tangent of Christian doctrine if you don't know Jesus? Now would be a great time to start. mrgreen *headdesk*, really? What comes to mind when you see Leviticus? Torah! What comes to mind with Torah? JEW! JEWISH! I don't need Jesus, he is not my moshiach, I have Hashem. Jeez....Excuse me for barging in and not reading all 18 pages of this thread. Lazy Mexican right here.
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Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 3:01 am
Imitation Stradivarius In Medias Res IV Imitation Stradivarius In Medias Res IV Imitation Stradivarius According to whose philosophy are you getting this from? God tells us to embrace who we are: the new creation in Him. Not the old one that we used to be. ... I'm not a Christian. Then why are you debating a tangent of Christian doctrine if you don't know Jesus? Now would be a great time to start. mrgreen *headdesk*, really? What comes to mind when you see Leviticus? Torah! What comes to mind with Torah? JEW! JEWISH! I don't need Jesus, he is not my moshiach, I have Hashem. Jeez....Excuse me for barging in and not reading all 18 pages of this thread. Lazy Mexican right here. Facepalm*
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Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 4:33 am
Imitation Stradivarius In Medias Res IV Imitation Stradivarius In Medias Res IV Imitation Stradivarius It's nice that you can assume things from you pedastal. Gee, I'm only gay and want to kill myself because of it and have tried to change my sexuality for a very VERY long time. Well, how can you assume things about someone's life - a life I might add, that you have no part of until a half hour ago - and say things like that? Maybe we both should go to some brainwashing clinic and get the queer talked out of us. We cannot change our sexuality. Instead of lying to ourselves and living unhappily we SHOULD be embracing who we are. According to whose philosophy are you getting this from? God tells us to embrace who we are: the new creation in Him. Not the old one that we used to be. Actually God does embrace homosexuality. He embraces the homosexuality that is of love and committed relationships not the homosexuality that was of lust, idolatry, and prostitution. What God finds to be unnatural is those who do not act according to their true nature not what is inside of nature. Meaning he finds homosexuals trying to be straight unnatural.
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Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 5:30 am
Ever heard the theory that God is punishing homosexuals by giving them AIDS? That was what tore it for me and made me leave the Southern Baptist church.
By that logic, if God is punishing gay people because they should be straight, then what about the straight people with AIDS? Does that mean that God is telling them they should have been gay? mrgreen
Before you jump all over me, let me say if you want to believe that God is punishing people with diseases, it would be for generalized promiscuity, not anything to do with sexuality.
Though, in that case, why let little innocent babies be born with sexually transmitted diseases? I've never understood the sins of the father thing. It's stupid and unfair.
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Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 5:44 am
I myself am a happily bisexual Protestant Christian, and yes, I got myself a boyfriend. The only quotation I can recall in the Bible that is anti-gay is in the book of Leviticus, which I find to be a stupider read than Twilight. I'm not much a fan of the Bible itself, as much as I am in Jesus himself. Yes, I have a natural attraction to some males. Wanna' know why? Because that's how GOD made me. If I'm fulfilling my blueprints made to my by the Creator, does that make me doomed to be a sinning heathen? I don't think so. God has absolutely no problem with love, no matter who it's toward.
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Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 7:36 am
Ahkmill I'm not much a fan of the Bible itself, as much as I am in Jesus himself. Good thing you're "Christian" then, eh? That's like the Christian that doesn't think they have to go to church because they want to do it at home so they have a "personal relationship with God one-on-one."
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Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 9:05 am
comfortably_dumb Mei tsuki7 Question to all Christians: If homosexuality is a sin why didn't Jesus say anything against it? He spoke of all the other sins did he not? So why not homosexuality? To play devil's advocate, Christians believe that we live in a fallen world, yes? If Jesus wanted to talk about every sin ever that related to human history and will relate to human history... that thing would be humongous. And, to play devil's advocate, could homosexuality fall under the lines of sexual immortality, which is a sin. I mean, just think about how many sins are sexual. It could be an umbrella statement, could it not (does the NT even cover what falls under sexual immortality?)? No not really. All sins fall under certain catagories. They are murder, greed, lust/adultery, pride, sloth, rape, stealing. I'm probably forgetting a few. Why would he speak of all the other forms of sexual immorality, adultery, rape and lust, but not homosexuality?
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Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 9:06 am
Imitation Stradivarius Homosexuality is wrong. I've gotten over my shame and I'm willing to admit that I've experienced it first hand. Levitican law forbids it, and in Matthew 5:17-18, Jesus says (in a nutshell) that not only did He fulfill the OT laws, but that every letter of it is to be kept until the day He returns. Do you eat cheeseburgers?
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Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 9:08 am
comfortably_dumb Ahkmill I'm not much a fan of the Bible itself, as much as I am in Jesus himself. Good thing you're "Christian" then, eh? That's like the Christian that doesn't think they have to go to church because they want to do it at home so they have a "personal relationship with God one-on-one." It's called being a red letter christian. As in believing Jesus' word only or just above all the rest of the bible. When I was christian I was one. Honestly think about it. The OT is the history of the Jews and christians do not need to follow it and Paul was a racist, sexist bigot.
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Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 3:32 pm
alteregoivy By that logic, if God is punishing gay people because they should be straight, then what about the straight people with AIDS? Does that mean that God is telling them they should have been gay? mrgreen
I think I love you. Just saying.
Anywho, here are my two cents. First of all, as I am not Jewish and therefore do not follow the Law, I immediately discard the writings on homosexuality that are found in the Old Testament. And if that bothers any of the other Christians in here, then you'd better quit eating your morning bacon and start stoning adulterous women.
So, after discarding the passages in Leviticus and Deuteronomy, we are left with some passages in Romans, First Corinthians, First Timothy, and Jude.
Romans 1:26-27: "For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet."
This passage refers to a group of people who were worshiping false idols, and having wild orgies in which the men and women were so drunk and/or drugged that they went against their usual heterosexual inclinations in order to have sex with whoever happened to be available, ignoring their committed relationships. For this lustfulness, and for turning their backs on God, they were punished. Not for their homosexual behavior - I'll bet that if there had been a homosexual person in the group sleeping with a person of the opposite gender, they would have been punished too.
1 Corithians 6:9-10: "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor [malakoi], nor [arsenokoitai], nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God."
In this passage, you would think that the translator would have used the Greek word "kinaidos" if he wanted to refer to a homosexual, since "kinaidos" is the word for a man who enjoys performing sexual acts with another man. Instead, the words that are usually used to refer to homosexuals are "malakoi" and "arsenokoitai"
The Greek word "malakoi" is generally translated as "effeminate," which is not what the word means. It is used to mean people with loose morals, cowards, or spineless people.
We don't really know the meaning of the word "arsenokoitai". It is often translated as something along the lines of "homosexual perverts." However, another ancient manuscript uses the word "arsenokoitai" as a Greek translation for the Hebrew word "quadesh", which is a temple prostitute.
Since one of the words used to indicate homosexuals does not mean what it is translated as, and the other's meaning isn't known, how can we claim that this passage condemns homosexuality?
1 Timothy 1:9-10: "Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, for whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine."
The greek word that is translated to "them that defile themselves with mankind" is "arsenokoitai". See the above notes for 1 Corinthians.
Jude 1:7: "Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire."
The "going after strange flesh" part of this verse is often cited as meaning homosexuality. There are two other equally valid interpretations of this passage. One: The men of Sodom and Gomorrah obviously intend to rape the angels. Rape is bad, y'all. And two: Because the angels were created separately from humans, they are two different species, and the men raping the angels would be considered bestiality. Which is also bad.
Wow. That got long in a hurry. But there's where I stand. Sorry if someone's already put up this interpretation, you don't have to read it again if they have. Although that's not really a helpful thing to say at the very end, is it? Oh well.
Oh, and these passages are taken from the King James version. Interestingly enough, I read Eugene Peterson's "The Message" and all of these verses are translated in a way that makes it clear they are not referring to homosexuality. You can see for yourself here.
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Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 4:40 pm
Why do people always use this "sex = love" thing when they talk about homosexuality? Just because I like (the idea of) ******** women doesn't mean I'm in love with them. I'm completely romantically devoted to my husband. ZimGangster This is one thing I've always taken issue with; equating a sexuality to love. Yes, gay people fall in love, but being gay is having a sexuality. It's being attracted to a person of your same gender. Sorry, that's just a pet peeve of mine. Mine as well. Nebulance I'm not going to rant that homosexuals are going to hell (all unsaved sinners will). There's no Scriptural support for this statement unless by "hell" you mean "Sheol," which makes your comment totally irrelevant anyhow, because if you're talking about Sheol, everyone goes there. Intelligent Gaian Christians heart Boxy and rmcdra. tobiwants2cookies arguing never gets any one anywhere Bullshit. All lawyers everywhere disprove this statement. Nebulance Great! And one of my points was that by that exact same logic, child sacrifice is not a sin either! So I'll be calling the police on you now... Even if IMR didn't believe that child sacrifice was a sin, that doesn't mean she's going to go out and do it, or that she has. Your police would laugh their asses off at you. But thanks for letting us know how childish you are. mrgreen Imitation Stradivarius Homosexuality is wrong. I've gotten over my shame and I'm willing to admit that I've experienced it first hand. Levitican law forbids it, and in Matthew 5:17-18, Jesus says (in a nutshell) that not only did He fulfill the OT laws, but that every letter of it is to be kept until the day He returns. So you don't eat bacon or cheeseburgers and you kick your sister/mother/wife/girlfriend out of town when she's menstruating, right? comfortably_dumb Ahkmill I'm not much a fan of the Bible itself, as much as I am in Jesus himself. Good thing you're "Christian" then, eh? That's like the Christian that doesn't think they have to go to church because they want to do it at home so they have a "personal relationship with God one-on-one." Could you please explain why it is Christians must attend church? Side note: What the hell is up with people trying to use a ******** metaphorical myth to justify, "HOMOS R BAD, MKAY?" (Circa pages 5-7) That's like a Hellenic trying to say rape is okay because, "ZOMG, ZEUS DID IT!!!1" Or the (sadly not so) rare Asatruar that try to claim that the Norse pantheon are tied by bloodlines and use that to justify their own personal racism.
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