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Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 8:09 pm
i was wondering...
how do the scientifically minded tau rationalize and explain chaos and the warp?
i mean when they met the first chaos marines who used magic and daemons they must have been freaked out. seeing as psyker powers are totally beyond them what do they make of the Eldar, humans, and Orks who defy the laws of physics on a regular basis.
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Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 12:25 am
OrionStark i was wondering... how do the scientifically minded tau rationalize and explain chaos and the warp? i mean when they met the first chaos marines who used magic and daemons they must have been freaked out. seeing as psyker powers are totally beyond them what do they make of the Eldar, humans, and Orks who defy the laws of physics on a regular basis. They are aware that the Warp exists. That's about it for most of the rank and file. Higher order Ethereals and commanders are aware of the corrupting and mad nature of the Warp, and ordered research on the subject to come to a full stop after Medusa V, and witnessing the fate of the Earth Caste researchers as the planet fell to the Warp. Aside from that, it will vary from commander to commander and world to world. Tau stationed on the Damocles Gulf are more likely to encounter Chaos forces and simply accept that "These things are weird, and this is how they opperate" while Tau in the inner worlds of the Empire are less likely to be aware of Chaos at all.
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Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 8:54 am
Oryn OrionStark i was wondering... how do the scientifically minded tau rationalize and explain chaos and the warp? i mean when they met the first chaos marines who used magic and daemons they must have been freaked out. seeing as psyker powers are totally beyond them what do they make of the Eldar, humans, and Orks who defy the laws of physics on a regular basis. They are aware that the Warp exists. That's about it for most of the rank and file. Higher order Ethereals and commanders are aware of the corrupting and mad nature of the Warp, and ordered research on the subject to come to a full stop after Medusa V, and witnessing the fate of the Earth Caste researchers as the planet fell to the Warp. Aside from that, it will vary from commander to commander and world to world. Tau stationed on the Damocles Gulf are more likely to encounter Chaos forces and simply accept that "These things are weird, and this is how they opperate" while Tau in the inner worlds of the Empire are less likely to be aware of Chaos at all. Read the book "Fire Warrior" it shows a pretty intresting example of how the tau responded to Chaos.
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Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:01 pm
i had another Tau thought.
the Imperium has stopped advancing. the tech they have is all the tech they are going to get. but the Tau are always upgrading. inevitable one of four things will happen
1. the Tau will outstretch the Imperium by enough that they will conquer it all 2. the Imperium will get a big enough break from outside incursions to launch another crusade that will overwhelm the Tau numerically before there weapons are that good. 3. the tau will get psykers and have an end to there age of advancement 4. the Imperium will have a reformation and won't be the imperium as we know it anymore.
basically on a long enough time line if the status quo continues the Tau will defeat humanity.
any thoughts or objections?
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Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:18 pm
OrionStark i had another Tau thought. the Imperium has stopped advancing. the tech they have is all the tech they are going to get. but the Tau are always upgrading. inevitable one of four things will happen 1. the Tau will outstretch the Imperium by enough that they will conquer it all 2. the Imperium will get a big enough break from outside incursions to launch another crusade that will overwhelm the Tau numerically before there weapons are that good. 3. the tau will get psykers and have an end to there age of advancement 4. the Imperium will have a reformation and won't be the imperium as we know it anymore. basically on a long enough time line if the status quo continues the Tau will defeat humanity. any thoughts or objections? well assuming GW let the storyline continue onwards (it won't ever, of course) I can certinally see a lot of ways that the Tau will start to overcome the Imperium. The thing is, if they keep expanding into imperial space, they're gonna have a LOT more problems of their own: the tyranids, Orks, not to mention ever increasing conflict with chaos. (the Tau may be uncorruptable, but the other species that they employ sure are) They'd probally get a nice chunk but be so overwhelmed with problems that it would stop before completely taking the imperium. Plus with the lost terriroty, the imperial armed forces could then better concentrate their defenses and perhaps win a few of the wars they're engaged in. In the long run, the tau would just be doing the imperium a favor. ...To which the imperium would probally return it by eradicating their race.
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Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 10:02 pm
OrionStark i had another Tau thought. the Imperium has stopped advancing. the tech they have is all the tech they are going to get. but the Tau are always upgrading. inevitable one of four things will happen 1. the Tau will outstretch the Imperium by enough that they will conquer it all 2. the Imperium will get a big enough break from outside incursions to launch another crusade that will overwhelm the Tau numerically before there weapons are that good. 3. the tau will get psykers and have an end to there age of advancement 4. the Imperium will have a reformation and won't be the imperium as we know it anymore. basically on a long enough time line if the status quo continues the Tau will defeat humanity. any thoughts or objections? There are a lot of problems with this line of thought. One, the Imperium does advance technically, just at a glacial pace, as they're dependent on salvaging STC's from the Dark Age of Technology. Two, this completely ignores the presence of all other threats that could conceivably wipe out the Tau; Hive Fleets Kraken and Behemoth, the Orks, and of course, the Necrons. Three, the Tau already have psyker allies, and the chances of the Tau gaining psykers within their race are minimal. The biggest problem the Tau will face in the future is communication. They don't have an astropathic network, or any real means of FTL communication. This hasn't been much of a problem at this point because the closeness of their worlds means that courier ships are still viable, but once they start expanding outside of their cluster, communications will break down.
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Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 12:22 pm
Oryn OrionStark i had another Tau thought. the Imperium has stopped advancing. the tech they have is all the tech they are going to get. but the Tau are always upgrading. inevitable one of four things will happen 1. the Tau will outstretch the Imperium by enough that they will conquer it all 2. the Imperium will get a big enough break from outside incursions to launch another crusade that will overwhelm the Tau numerically before there weapons are that good. 3. the tau will get psykers and have an end to there age of advancement 4. the Imperium will have a reformation and won't be the imperium as we know it anymore. basically on a long enough time line if the status quo continues the Tau will defeat humanity. any thoughts or objections? There are a lot of problems with this line of thought. One, the Imperium does advance technically, just at a glacial pace, as they're dependent on salvaging STC's from the Dark Age of Technology. Two, this completely ignores the presence of all other threats that could conceivably wipe out the Tau; Hive Fleets Kraken and Behemoth, the Orks, and of course, the Necrons. Three, the Tau already have psyker allies, and the chances of the Tau gaining psykers within their race are minimal. The biggest problem the Tau will face in the future is communication. They don't have an astropathic network, or any real means of FTL communication. This hasn't been much of a problem at this point because the closeness of their worlds means that courier ships are still viable, but once they start expanding outside of their cluster, communications will break down. true. but as long as the philosephy of the greater good pervades them. they could expand forever, but it is for the greater good to stay unilateral. (at least to them) as long as they are united by philosophy and there worlds are autonomous in needs then they will be ok. as far as the other threats go...good point but the same logic applies. if they are advancing and the other races are stagnent in tech then all they have to do is hold out till they can out think the enemy. Tyranids are the biggest problem in that department cause they are always evolving. but Necrons, Orks, and Eldar have the guns that they are going to have.
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Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 12:47 pm
OrionStark true. but as long as the philosephy of the greater good pervades them. they could expand forever, but it is for the greater good to stay unilateral. (at least to them) as long as they are united by philosophy and there worlds are autonomous in needs then they will be ok. as far as the other threats go...good point but the same logic applies. if they are advancing and the other races are stagnent in tech then all they have to do is hold out till they can out think the enemy. Tyranids are the biggest problem in that department cause they are always evolving. but Necrons, Orks, and Eldar have the guns that they are going to have. None of the other races have stagnant tech save maybe Eldar. Orks have what they can salvage from other races, and while they can always build shootas, as long as someone is advancing, so are the Orks. Furthermore, if the grayskins become a better challenge, that means more Orks will be drawn to fight them. Eldar aren't advancing in techbase, but they are always going to outstrip the Tau in sheer psychic power. However, their supposed threat to the Tau seems minimal, seeing as Eldrad Uthran himself (the d**k) sees hope for the galaxy in them. Tyranids are constantly evolving and changing, so they're essentially the opposite of stagnant. Necrons... well, they have the guns they have for the moment. The Necrons we see on the tabletop right now aren't warriors, they're the Necron equivalent of farmers. The Gauss Flayer isn't so much a gun as an energy collecting device to feed C'tan. We haven't seen true Necron warmachines yet.
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Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 11:03 pm
i see i see
ok the next little thought is on the extreme of hypothetical but...
what if a significant percentage of the Imperium wanted to annex with the Tau empire? besides the obvious reaction of any Imperial remnants of genocidal crusade...how do you think the Tau would handle a massive demographic shift in there population? what if suddenly in the Tau empire Gue'vasa outnumbered Tau 10 to 1 or more?
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Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 12:23 am
OrionStark i see i see ok the next little thought is on the extreme of hypothetical but... what if a significant percentage of the Imperium wanted to annex with the Tau empire? besides the obvious reaction of any Imperial remnants of genocidal crusade...how do you think the Tau would handle a massive demographic shift in there population? what if suddenly in the Tau empire Gue'vasa outnumbered Tau 10 to 1 or more? Again, highly, highly unlikely. For starters, aside from some of military, Space Marines, and Inquisitors, the majority of the populace of the Imperium is completely unaware of the existence of the Tau Empire. Aside from a few border worlds where the Tau are actively trading and promoting the Greater Good as an ideology, the Tau are unknown. So that in itself is going to keep any significant portion of the Imperium from trying to secede. Also, the citizens of the Imperium, by and large, are told from a very early age never to trust the words of the heretic, the mutant, the xeno. Obviously, all the Tau's pretty words and flowery promises are lies, right? In addition, if a world was to actively secede, the response would be swift in coming against the world. Probably not Exterminatus, but a brutal attack force to put the planet under martial law. Possibly orbital bombardment of the hives. In any case, regardless of demographics of the Empire, the Tau are 'more equal' than any other race in it.
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Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 6:51 pm
Oryn OrionStark i see i see ok the next little thought is on the extreme of hypothetical but... what if a significant percentage of the Imperium wanted to annex with the Tau empire? besides the obvious reaction of any Imperial remnants of genocidal crusade...how do you think the Tau would handle a massive demographic shift in there population? what if suddenly in the Tau empire Gue'vasa outnumbered Tau 10 to 1 or more? Again, highly, highly unlikely. For starters, aside from some of military, Space Marines, and Inquisitors, the majority of the populace of the Imperium is completely unaware of the existence of the Tau Empire. Aside from a few border worlds where the Tau are actively trading and promoting the Greater Good as an ideology, the Tau are unknown. So that in itself is going to keep any significant portion of the Imperium from trying to secede. Also, the citizens of the Imperium, by and large, are told from a very early age never to trust the words of the heretic, the mutant, the xeno. Obviously, all the Tau's pretty words and flowery promises are lies, right? In addition, if a world was to actively secede, the response would be swift in coming against the world. Probably not Exterminatus, but a brutal attack force to put the planet under martial law. Possibly orbital bombardment of the hives. In any case, regardless of demographics of the Empire, the Tau are 'more equal' than any other race in it. but say that it did happen against all odds. say the Tau did it somehow. how would they deal with a demographic shift in the empire. cause i know that after enough time humans would not tolerate second class citizenship
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Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 12:19 am
OrionStark Oryn OrionStark i see i see ok the next little thought is on the extreme of hypothetical but... what if a significant percentage of the Imperium wanted to annex with the Tau empire? besides the obvious reaction of any Imperial remnants of genocidal crusade...how do you think the Tau would handle a massive demographic shift in there population? what if suddenly in the Tau empire Gue'vasa outnumbered Tau 10 to 1 or more? Again, highly, highly unlikely. For starters, aside from some of military, Space Marines, and Inquisitors, the majority of the populace of the Imperium is completely unaware of the existence of the Tau Empire. Aside from a few border worlds where the Tau are actively trading and promoting the Greater Good as an ideology, the Tau are unknown. So that in itself is going to keep any significant portion of the Imperium from trying to secede. Also, the citizens of the Imperium, by and large, are told from a very early age never to trust the words of the heretic, the mutant, the xeno. Obviously, all the Tau's pretty words and flowery promises are lies, right? In addition, if a world was to actively secede, the response would be swift in coming against the world. Probably not Exterminatus, but a brutal attack force to put the planet under martial law. Possibly orbital bombardment of the hives. In any case, regardless of demographics of the Empire, the Tau are 'more equal' than any other race in it. but say that it did happen against all odds. say the Tau did it somehow. how would they deal with a demographic shift in the empire. cause i know that after enough time humans would not tolerate second class citizenship As he said, against all odds it cant happen. Thats why the imperium polices information first. You cant allie with what youre unaware of.
If it were to happen, most would face leadership changes. The Ordo Xenos and the Offcio Assinorum would take out the governors or leaders of any group of protesters or traitors. Pro Imperial (most likely retired gaurd) leadership would be put in place and stricter reign on the populace enforced.
For those that muster a defense you have military, navy, bombardment, exterminatus, and if any marines catch wind of this, or reply to a military request you know some pplanets will feel some hurt.
Anyways, you persist, but the thing is, what the tau do would be based on what the new demographic or major minority does. Do they simply protest? Rebel or riot? Try and oust the tau government? You need to set up more for this ypothetical situation, which will be hard as there isnt a lot of fluff on the lives of the tau empire humans from what Ive seen.
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 1:42 am
Why would the Tau treat them as second class citizens? As long as any race accepts the Greater Good they are considered Equals. The Vespids are enslaved because the Tau can't understand them. The Kroot are mercs so who cares about them. And the Human race. Well from what most of the Tau codex says only a very, very, very, very, very tiny percentage of the entire vast Empire are even remotely aware of the tau race. Even then they aren't treated as second class citizens. Just people who don't understand the Greater Good.
Ok then so a vast majority of the empire of man becomes part of the Tau empire. This majority accepts the greater good. What next? Does the rest of the empire sit back and watch this or, does the massive war machine of the Empire of man grind into action. They begin a purging of all Heretics and Xenos lovers. Quadrillions Die and billions of planets burn. The Tau are very limited. They can't take on the full might of the Human race until they can launch weapons from the inner core planets that can reach and strike holy Terra. Even then the Empire would become infuriated and probably win all their wars out of sheer rage. the thousands of space marine chapters turn and the vast navies and legions of the Imperial Guard move. What next?
The Tau move to defend, but how do you defend against that? Their super long range weapon of doom will not be able to go into the warp. Well maybe. But even then they can now become corrupted. So all in all, The Tau are a stagnant race just like everyone else. The Only possibility is the entire Human populace. The Quadrillions of Quadrillions of humans accept the Greater Good and the Adeptus Mechanicus begin mass production of the superior weapons of the Tau.
HIGHLY UNLIKLY!
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 3:38 am
One huge thing...well more like...Five big things. This isn't a one on one war, so the empire wouldn't be able to send everything at them, at risk of being over ran by orks, nids, chaos, eldar, and dark eldar. Beisides lets remember where the tau empire is, right next to Ultramar. So the empire would only send the Ultramarines, and (maybe) some imperal gaurd regements. That is because I find that the empire can be ,at sometimes, very egotistical. So they wouldn't send much to fight the Xenos, Then again they are zealots of xenophobia. *rubs head* Ack too many other ideas, (like the ultra turning the tau because of their closeness to them). See this is why I've started an ork army, less politics and more WAAAGH!
edit: Oddly enough this did happen! well.... for one world. The world Moracre (closest imperial planet to the tau empire) did plege its alliance to the tau empire. Sadly the rebellion was stopped by the imperium.
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 6:15 am
The Fear Returns Why would the Tau treat them as second class citizens? As long as any race accepts the Greater Good they are considered Equals.
yeah, that's the general Idea, but generally the other races aren't given as much respect from a purebred Tau', then for a... purebred Tau'. Look at the History Of the US. Our policy was brining in anyone, from anywhere. But what type of respect did outsiders recieve? Very little, they were taken advantage of and looked down upon. My point is, despite the Tau Govenments good intentions, generally it's people are still gonna trust their own kind over a species that so easily switched alliances.
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