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 Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 2:25 pm
Reddemon Nuclearwinter King Kento Nuclearwinter i guess you're all just ignoring the fact that I can deep strike them? and i'd rather have a smaller board, it means his tanks lose the advantage of their range (I'd have laz cannons shooing sooner)
"How is a drop army being an option make the gaurd codex designed by idiots? Elaboration would help you nicely. And something being anti armor hardly makes it something to be called "designed by idiots", tanks are only one aspect of some of the armies in the game."I don't like the guard codex, because they have so many useless doctrines. You're entire army gets deep strike for free? that just seems silly to me. Oh and I didn't see you adress that comment in an eariler post, I must have missed it, sorry. But I think the guard could have been designed a LITTLE better in terms of the doctrine upgrades. They weren't very restricting and you never made an amry that was THAT unique. For example, I always have an army that has close order drill just because I have the extra doctrine, not because i need or want it. They did the same thing with the marine codex, there's no limitations, so no real variety. Uh... your whole army dosent get it. Your infantry gets it, not the whole army you missed the point.
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Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 2:28 pm
Mat Reddemon Nuclearwinter King Kento Nuclearwinter i guess you're all just ignoring the fact that I can deep strike them? and i'd rather have a smaller board, it means his tanks lose the advantage of their range (I'd have laz cannons shooing sooner)
"How is a drop army being an option make the gaurd codex designed by idiots? Elaboration would help you nicely. And something being anti armor hardly makes it something to be called "designed by idiots", tanks are only one aspect of some of the armies in the game."I don't like the guard codex, because they have so many useless doctrines. You're entire army gets deep strike for free? that just seems silly to me. Oh and I didn't see you adress that comment in an eariler post, I must have missed it, sorry. But I think the guard could have been designed a LITTLE better in terms of the doctrine upgrades. They weren't very restricting and you never made an amry that was THAT unique. For example, I always have an army that has close order drill just because I have the extra doctrine, not because i need or want it. They did the same thing with the marine codex, there's no limitations, so no real variety. Uh... your whole army dosent get it. Your infantry gets it, not the whole army just imagine if I could deepstrike tanks. There is a mission that lets you do that I cant remember but a good friend of mine told my of it and he is a GW Outrider. Just Imagine the possiblitys. Mechanized Warrior Weapons Ogryns Independent Commisars I can see some Major hurt coming out of that it would just have problems with Armor The possiblitys for guard are nearly endless. Want the play them as Tech Guard you got it Bionics (its not called this but it give them a 5+ invul save) Carapace Armor Enigseers mechanized the potential for variety is out there. It just has to be recognized. it's out there, but when you want to win game (or even stand a chance), there's really few choices you can get. yeah having bionics is neat, but does it really pay for itself in points? (note that bionics does not give you a 5+ invunerable) the store I go to has ALL die-hard players who have been at this game for far longer than me, and all the variety in the world dosn't help at all.
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Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 2:35 pm
its not called bionic and I said that its...
oh yeah its. Cyber Enchanment.
ok lets start with this. How long have you been playing and what does your current army list look like. I am not the formost expert on guard but I do know about 6 or 7 pretty good guard guys and I beat one of them with my guard
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Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 3:07 pm
Mat its not called bionic and I said that its... oh yeah its. Cyber Enchanment. ok lets start with this. How long have you been playing and what does your current army list look like. I am not the formost expert on guard but I do know about 6 or 7 pretty good guard guys and I beat one of them with my guard I've been palying for years now (i stared very young), but it's only recently that i'm starting to get the hang of how turn based tactics work and how to effectivly use my army. This is how my guard work: i have 4 types of squads, I'll describe each one and show you how many I have in the army. each type of squad is assumed to have 10 men in it. 1. Anti-tank/heavy infantry squad - plasma gun + laz cannon 2. anti transport/medium infantry squad - grenade launcher and auto cannon 3. Throwaway/cheap distraction squad - Heavy bolter 4. shock trooper/objective taking squad - grenade launcher My army consists of this: command section with senior officer (some average weaponry) a commisar, a banner, and 3 flamethrowers. 1'st platoon: command section w/blank officer and missile launcher X3 anti-tank squads X1 Anti transport squad X1 distraction squad 2nd platoon: command section w/blank officer and missile launcher X3 objective squads I have 2 lemun russ tanks each with Heavy bolter sponsons and a hull mounted lazcannon I have 1 basilisk with indirect fire. it's 1500 point list and has given me good and bad games. I just need to fine tune my tactics but I'll still continue using this list.
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Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:06 pm
Well here is my 1850 list amke of it what you will my and mac beat our haeds together for somtime on this.
1850
Doctrines.
- Drop Troops
- Iron Discipline
- Storm troopers
- Sharpshooters
HQ.
Senior Officer - Power Fist, bolt pistol and Iron Discipline
Veteran - Medic with lasgun
Veteran - Standard bearer with company standard, laspistol and ccw
Guardsmen (2) - Grenade launcher and Plasma Gun
Anti-tank support squad - Missile launcher, lascannons (2) and sharpshooters
Fire support squad - Autocannons (3) and sharpshooters
Motar support squad - Motars (3)
Elites.
Storm trooper squad 1.
Veteran sergeant - Hellpistol and power weapon
Storm troopers (7) - Plasma gun and meltagun
Deep strike or Infiltrate
Storm trooper squad 2.
Veteran sergeant - Hellpistol and power weapon
Storm troopers (9) - Flamer
Deep strike or Infiltrate
Troops.
Infantry platoon.
Junior officer - Bolt pistol, Power Fist and Iron Discipline
Veteran - Medic with lasgun
Guardsmen (3) - Heavy bolter and lasgun
Sergeant - Laspistol and ccw
Guardsmen (9) - Flamer , Heavy Bolter
Sergeant - Laspistol and ccw
Guardsmen (9) - Flamer , Heavy Bolter
Infantry Platoon.
Junior officer - Bolt pistol, Power Weapon and Iron Discipline
Veteran - Medic with lasgun
Guardsmen (3) - Melta, Plasma, Lasgun
Sergeant - Laspistol and ccw
Guardsmen (9) - Meltagun , Heavy Bolter
Sergeant - Laspistol and ccw
Guardsmen (9) - Flamer , Heavy Bolter
Veteran sergeant - Laspistol and ccw
Guardsmen (9) - Meltagun , Heavy Bolter
Fast Attack.
Armageddon Sentinal
Cadian Sentinal
Heavy Support.
Leman Russ Demolisher - Lascannon, plasma cannons, extra armour., Immproved Comms
Leman Russ Exterminator - Heavy bolters (3), heavy stubber and smoke launchers, search light
Leman Russ Exterminator - Heavy bolters (3), heavy stubber and smoke launchers, search light
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Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 11:44 pm
Nuclearwinter King Kento Nuclearwinter i guess you're all just ignoring the fact that I can deep strike them? and i'd rather have a smaller board, it means his tanks lose the advantage of their range (I'd have laz cannons shooing sooner)
"How is a drop army being an option make the gaurd codex designed by idiots? Elaboration would help you nicely. And something being anti armor hardly makes it something to be called "designed by idiots", tanks are only one aspect of some of the armies in the game."I don't like the guard codex, because they have so many useless doctrines. You're entire army gets deep strike for free? that just seems silly to me. Oh and I didn't see you adress that comment in an eariler post, I must have missed it, sorry. But I think the guard could have been designed a LITTLE better in terms of the doctrine upgrades. They weren't very restricting and you never made an amry that was THAT unique. For example, I always have an army that has close order drill just because I have the extra doctrine, not because i need or want it. They did the same thing with the marine codex, there's no limitations, so no real variety.
Because you cannot find a use for all the doctrines, does not mean the rest of us can. And dont bring up another army as an afterthought. If youre going to rbing marines in, say what limitations you want, and what they dont have, and how is limiting adding variety? Thats contradictery. Id recomend focusing on the IG and not being so vague. Then again theres posts after this, so Ill see if you expanded your viewpoint in those.
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Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 12:58 am
Not to interupt or anything... sweatdrop
But quick question. For Storm Troopers, what's better for clearing infantry? A flamer or grenade launcher? I hear that the frag grenades might as well be pebbles, but it is dual use...
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Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 3:17 am
let me tell you a story from way back when I started playing.
The Little Stormtroopers that could
A squad of Kroot perched on a important objective. The ground commander of the Fensilar 29th selected his elite Stormtrooper squad to seaze the obective from the Xenos for the glroy of the Imperium. The telepoted in on to find half their number already dead as the teleportarium had gotten the coordinates wrong and put them nearly in the unit of kroot. The five men that remained blazed away with their hellguns and one with his trusty flamer, decimating the unit alomst completely. The remaining kroot fled from this onslaught. The victorious troopers were subsequently gunned down by four battlesuit squads.
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Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 7:09 am
Asian_Rebel Not to interupt or anything... sweatdrop But quick question. For Storm Troopers, what's better for clearing infantry? A flamer or grenade launcher? I hear that the frag grenades might as well be pebbles, but it is dual use... any time that i use storm troopers I usually avoid flamers simply because they have a BS of 4 and I'd rather have them equiped with a plasma gun to make full use of that advantage but if you're looking to get in close with the enemy then go with flamers. (grenade launchers are better used in units that want to keep their distance in my opinion) And just to briefly respond about what I said with the doctrines, I just feel like they make the guardsmen cost too much for that they'd be worth with just more numbers, I can't ever use xenofighters cause that's more for somone who wants's to model them specificly that way. Jungle fighters will never be taken because I don't aways use forest terrain in games. Die hards is useless because if my guardsmen are in close combat i'd rather have them flee and the rest of my troops gun down the remaining assulters. Hardened fighters is useless because what the hell is a guardsmen gonna do with WS 4? And any other doctrine I take, I feel like i'm only useing it because I NEED it, not cause I want to use it.
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Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 8:00 am
If you dont want to take somthing dont. Ive played with and without carapace armour truthfully it made no real difference. My troops got chewed up all the same. But look at what I use. Who uses motars? I know only one other person besides me mad enough to use them. People say they suck because they are guess but I have had very high success rates. If you want to use somthin you have to talk to people and find a way to use it. Tell me what option do you want to take? and ill get together with mac and tell you a way to use it effectively
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Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 9:37 am
Mat If you dont want to take somthing dont. Ive played with and without carapace armour truthfully it made no real difference. My troops got chewed up all the same. But look at what I use. Who uses motars? I know only one other person besides me mad enough to use them. People say they suck because they are guess but I have had very high success rates. If you want to use somthin you have to talk to people and find a way to use it. Tell me what option do you want to take? and ill get together with mac and tell you a way to use it effectively for that army, all i took was close order drill and iron discipline. but the other thing you were saying, about morters, you don't guess the range any more you just scatter them 2D6 (if out of LOS) and I find them pretty usefull usually but they're just so damn annoying to actually shoot with. (also they're very usefull againt Hit-and-run tactics.
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Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 9:09 pm
Nuclearwinter Mat If you dont want to take somthing dont. Ive played with and without carapace armour truthfully it made no real difference. My troops got chewed up all the same. But look at what I use. Who uses motars? I know only one other person besides me mad enough to use them. People say they suck because they are guess but I have had very high success rates. If you want to use somthin you have to talk to people and find a way to use it. Tell me what option do you want to take? and ill get together with mac and tell you a way to use it effectively for that army, all i took was close order drill and iron discipline. but the other thing you were saying, about morters, you don't guess the range any more you just scatter them 2D6 (if out of LOS) and I find them pretty usefull usually but they're just so damn annoying to actually shoot with. (also they're very usefull againt Hit-and-run tactics. ...First of all, I think that Mat understands the concept that you don't actually guess the range. After all, he's been playing Guard for years. And I use Hardened Fighters for my troops. Not only does it fit the fluff of the army, but it also proves effective to fight against dedicated close combat units. I've had Raptors lose in Close Combat against my base guardsmen. This is an example of how what you think it useless someone else uses and thinks is rather useful. The higher weapon skill makes it harder for your enemies to hit you while you're able to score some kills yourself. It takes a weakness the Imperial Guard has and turns it almost into a Strength.
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Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 9:21 pm
Okay, a few questions.
Is bionics really worth taking? I understand that for five points you have a chance of having your 60 point model get back up and start fighting again, but is it worth the points to give it to your models?
Should I use Sharpshooters are anything other than my Heavy Weapons? I've used it before to some success with my normal infantry, but it is a waste of points where I could save up and buy a new infantry squad, or something else?
I've used it and I like it, but is it worth it to give my troops Hardened Fighters, or at least the ones that I think will need it? It's nice to be almost on par with Space Marines (combined with Close Order Drill) in close combat, but is it worth the points?
Does an Exterminator work very well? I've been thinking about getting one with three Heavy Bolters and then just giving my Vanquisher a hull-mounted Bolter to keep it low on point cost.
Is there a good balance of support squads to "attack" squads? i.e.: How many squads should I have sit back and shoot with heavy weapons in respect to however many are advancing with rapid fire and assualt weapons? Also, should I just have Heavy Weapons squads attached to the Command Squad to allow all of my infantry squads to advance?
Is there any other advice which you may impart?
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Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 9:50 pm
Someone mind reviewing the list I threw up please? I'm hardly convinced it's ready for battle, any tips would be helpful.
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Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 7:39 am
Xenos Mortium Is bionics really worth taking? I understand that for five points you have a chance of having your 60 point model get back up and start fighting again, but is it worth the points to give it to your models? Not really. Only a few models can take it, you don't get it against anything S6 or powerweapon, etc. On Space Marines it's OK because you use it a tad more often, but guard rarely get any chances. Keep them off. Saves 5pts each. Xenos Mortium Should I use Sharpshooters are anything other than my Heavy Weapons? I've used it before to some success with my normal infantry, but it is a waste of points where I could save up and buy a new infantry squad, or something else? Only Heavy Weapons and specialist weapon squads. Officer w/ 4 Melta's? Tempting, but no, as they're likely getting only one shooting phase anyways, successful or not. Heavy bolters / Autocannons? Hellz yes. Platoon with a HB? Nope. Saves you enough for a couple platoons. Xenos Mortium I've used it and I like it, but is it worth it to give my troops Hardened Fighters, or at least the ones that I think will need it? It's nice to be almost on par with Space Marines (combined with Close Order Drill) in close combat, but is it worth the points? No, bad, BAD! Guard are NOT close combat. They are meant to stay where they are, and fire until their enemy is a nice smear on the ground. Close Order drill is OK for the +1ld, but as long as you keep them in the bubbles you Officers provide, it isn't too badly needed. Without Fighters, you save a good deal of points. Xenos Mortium Is there a good balance of support squads to "attack" squads? i.e.: How many squads should I have sit back and shoot with heavy weapons in respect to however many are advancing with rapid fire and assualt weapons? Also, should I just have Heavy Weapons squads attached to the Command Squad to allow all of my infantry squads to advance? Yes, there is a good balance. 100% Support, 0% Assault. You are a S3 T3 model without an above average WS or a Power Weapon. Combat is not your place. Spamming shots is your place. Xenos Mortium Is there any other advice which you may impart? As long as no-one else is using it, give the Honorific to your armies HQ. A Junior Officer with Honorific saves you 5pts. Not much, but it could mean another heavy weapon in the long run.
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