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| Abortion |
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[ 7 ] |
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82% |
[ 71 ] |
| I'm not sure how I feel about it. |
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9% |
[ 8 ] |
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| Total Votes : 86 |
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 Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 9:40 am
chaoticpuppet Tangled Up In Blue windswept_fury [...]but it's still murder[...] No, no it's not. It's homocide. Something can only be murder if it's illegal, which abortion is not. Ergo, abortion is not murder since it is legal. murder -n- The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice.Going along with Blue; If first degree murder, prove malicious intent. If second degree murder, prove it is being commited in the heat of passion, where malice may be implied. u all are narrowing the definition of murder too far. what about purpose to kill without premeditation. {a) Premeditation. A murder is not premeditated unless the thought of taking life was consciously conceived and the act or omission by which it was taken was intended. Premeditated murder is murder committed after the formation of a specific intent to kill someone and consideration of the act intended. It is not necessary that the intention to kill have been entertained for any particular or consider-able length of time. When a fixed purpose to kill has been deliberately formed, it is immaterial how soon afterwards it is put into execution. The existence of premeditation may be inferred from the circumstances. } It would seem most people do think about havin abortion think and plan.but its those that go thru w/ it that are murdering. besides how much is abortions anyway?? Imean what if someone suddenly got in the way of my life makin it difficult does that give me the right to kill them? no.
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Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 9:46 am
I believe that a woman should most definitely go ahead and have the baby, even if she just gives it up for adoption. For crying out loud, it's HER OWN FAULT for getting herself pregnant in the first place. If she wasn't ready to carry and protect an innocent life, she shouldn't have had sex. It is NO HUMAN PERSON'S right to extinguish the life of another.
-My thoughts.
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Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 12:59 pm
LIFEspring I believe that a woman should most definitely go ahead and have the baby, even if she just gives it up for adoption. For crying out loud, it's HER OWN FAULT for getting herself pregnant in the first place. If she wasn't ready to carry and protect an innocent life, she shouldn't have had sex. It is NO HUMAN PERSON'S right to extinguish the life of another. -My thoughts. I know there are less cases than ones used for birth control, but you can't forget girls who were raped. They never made the choice to get pregnant.
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Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 1:10 pm
St. Amy LIFEspring I believe that a woman should most definitely go ahead and have the baby, even if she just gives it up for adoption. For crying out loud, it's HER OWN FAULT for getting herself pregnant in the first place. If she wasn't ready to carry and protect an innocent life, she shouldn't have had sex. It is NO HUMAN PERSON'S right to extinguish the life of another. -My thoughts. I know there are less cases than ones used for birth control, but you can't forget girls who were raped. They never made the choice to get pregnant. Yeah, i see what you mean. I was talking about the ones who had a choice though, but you have a point. Still.....
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Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 2:33 pm
Kajitora, and windswept_fury: I was not going by a grammatical definition, I was going by the legal definition.
For it to be murder, it first has to be illegal, as Blue stated.
Then to be considered first degree, it must have been premeditated, with malicious intent.
To be second degree, it must have been in the heat of passion, where malice can be implied.
There is a conjunction (i.e. the word "and") in the definition of murder, meaning, that first degree is illegal and has been premeditated/malicious intent. Second degree murder is illegal and in the heat of passion, where malice may be implied.
In first degree murder, as well as second degree murder, there is no disjunction (the word "or") between illegal and the other part. In other words, the definitions do not look like:
First Degree: Illegal or with malicious intent.
They look like:
First Degree: Illegal and malicious intent.
In other words, since abortion is legal, it is not murder, because it does not fit the definition of murder (legally).
No, this was not a grammatical explanation, it was merely a simple philosophy of word piece.
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Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 2:45 pm
I shall say this and this alone: you don't know what it's like or how it feels until you're put in the position of a female who may need to get an abortion. Whether it's because of age or crime, whatever. I just wish people wouldn't judge others so harshly on their decisions. Cuz unless you've been through it you have no right to say "I would never do this" or "they're so bad for doing that."
And if any of you flame me for this I don't care. Cuz I strongly feel like it's a duty of life to try to understand situations before going about hacking away at people for something you don't know about.
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Posted: Tue May 24, 2005 8:56 am
ScarredImage I shall say this and this alone: you don't know what it's like or how it feels until you're put in the position of a female who may need to get an abortion. Whether it's because of age or crime, whatever. I just wish people wouldn't judge others so harshly on their decisions. Cuz unless you've been through it you have no right to say "I would never do this" or "they're so bad for doing that." And if any of you flame me for this I don't care. Cuz I strongly feel like it's a duty of life to try to understand situations before going about hacking away at people for something you don't know about. I shall respond with this: I don't need to know what it is like or how it feels to know what I would do. I do not judge peopel harshly for killing babies, it just disgusts me. I'm disappointed with all of humanity for this atrocity. They are not bad people, but there actions I do not excuse.
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Posted: Tue May 24, 2005 11:45 am
Now guys, i know i am new here, but after reading a few of these posts, and i did not read all of them, but you have to realize that God may allow something but not condone it. In the Jewish law in the old testement God makes a provision for the treatment of slaves. God does not condone slavery, but God does deal in reality. Me personally, i think all abortion is wrong. No matter if it is because of a rape, or free will to have sex and make the child. This is also one of those times where i am truely thankful to be male because i will never have to choose whether or not to get an abortion. The apostle Paul said, i believe in 1st Corinthians, but dont hold me to that, that all things are lawful for those of us that are in Christ Jesus. Not all things are expedient, or beneficial. The blood of Christ covers all sin, every sin, past present and furture. God will forgive us of our future sins just as he has already forgiven us of the sins we did 10 years ago. You all seem like really nice people and i know this point of this thread was opinions on abortion, but something i think we all forgot to put on here was a prayer that God would show us what He has for each of us.
And on another note, on one of these posts someone said something about tidal waves not being a matter of free will and yet they cause suffering. He was right about them causing suffering, but he was wrong about it not being a matter of free will. Our world is a world of cause and effect. Everything someone does can potentially cause horrible outcomes. Just as something i or you do could cause great joy in 100 years when you are long dead. Look at the civil rights movement. M. L. King JR. was assassinated for what he was doing, as were many others, but after his death segregation was taken out and eventually everyone had equal right. Now the point in mentioning all of that even though i got on a rabbit trail, is to say this:
Adam sinned. When he sinned not only did man fall, but all of creation with him. This world is fallen. In the world that God had created i personally dont think that tidal waves were part of it. I also think that it is just something that happens and we have to live with it. It is part of being fallen creations in a fallen world.
And so ends my preaching, thank you very much for your time.
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Posted: Tue May 24, 2005 11:48 am
Kutsuke ScarredImage I shall say this and this alone: you don't know what it's like or how it feels until you're put in the position of a female who may need to get an abortion. Whether it's because of age or crime, whatever. I just wish people wouldn't judge others so harshly on their decisions. Cuz unless you've been through it you have no right to say "I would never do this" or "they're so bad for doing that." And if any of you flame me for this I don't care. Cuz I strongly feel like it's a duty of life to try to understand situations before going about hacking away at people for something you don't know about. I shall respond with this: I don't need to know what it is like or how it feels to know what I would do. I do not judge peopel harshly for killing babies, it just disgusts me. I'm disappointed with all of humanity for this atrocity. They are not bad people, but there actions I do not excuse. That doesn't mean that once the pressure is on you you'll do what you think you would do. Things can totally change. And you still don't know everyone's situation. I'm just saying people really need to stop saying "You're so bad because if I were in that situation I would've done something different." Because most times no one knows the whole truth behind the scenario.
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Posted: Wed May 25, 2005 12:39 pm
Alexander Peniel God will forgive us of our future sins just as he has already forgiven us of the sins we did 10 years ago. i agree, but we cannot sin knowingly, meaning that we can sin knowing that God will forgive us. my view on abortion: wrong wrong wrong WRONG the only comfort i get from this mass murder is that all those children will be sent to heaven, since htey never got the chance to sin or to know God. sweatdrop
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Posted: Wed May 25, 2005 12:52 pm
I think that abortion is wrong as a method of birth control. Today's society figures that if someone gets pregnant, they can just have an abortion. The only way that I can understand someone having an abortion is along the lines of rape. It was an original traumatic experience to be raped, but to have to carry around the person who violated you's child around for 9 months? If I was a girl and in the situation, I don't think I could do it. That is my only tolerance for the use of abortion.
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Posted: Wed May 25, 2005 10:39 pm
By Jovi i think i found a new home. You guys are cool. I have never been able to go to an RP site and have Christian based conversation. This is just so awesome. If any of you would like to add me to messger then by all means please do. I could use some Christian friends instead of always seeking friendship with the unsaved.
Thanks for you time.
Robert
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Posted: Wed May 25, 2005 11:00 pm
chaoticpuppet Kajitora, and windswept_fury: I was not going by a grammatical definition, I was going by the legal definition. For it to be murder, it first has to be illegal, as Blue stated. Then to be considered first degree, it must have been premeditated, with malicious intent. To be second degree, it must have been in the heat of passion, where malice can be implied. There is a conjunction (i.e. the word "and") in the definition of murder, meaning, that first degree is illegal and has been premeditated/malicious intent. Second degree murder is illegal and in the heat of passion, where malice may be implied. In first degree murder, as well as second degree murder, there is no disjunction (the word "or") between illegal and the other part. In other words, the definitions do not look like: First Degree: Illegal or with malicious intent. They look like: First Degree: Illegal and malicious intent. In other words, since abortion is legal, it is not murder, because it does not fit the definition of murder (legally). No, this was not a grammatical explanation, it was merely a simple philosophy of word piece. I see so u believe if the definition were to be changed u would change ur view am i correct?? EX: Manslaughter w/ out thought of a life. (hey want some water wink jesus prayed over it j/k LOL)
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Posted: Thu May 26, 2005 6:58 am
chaoticpuppet d~girl~4ever Even though that haven't taken a breath or air doesn't mean that they aren't human beings. A babies heart is beating just weeks after being concieved. It is wrong no matter how the person got pregnant. Are you insinuating that a beating heart is the only qualification for life? Well, it's not. There are many more functions that go into the determination of life, and death. Just to pose a really off the wall philosophy-esque question. Think about this: 1. This reality is false. 2. We are merely mental beings, and this reality is all just a farce to decieve us. 3. The only way to truly live, is to sever all physical attachements, in other words, true life comes only after death. On the topic of abortion though, think about this, if that person where truly important to god (jesus-like important) would god allow for an abortion of that person? okay whoah, remember EVERYONE is important to God, he allows sin to go on so that people have time to repent and turn, if God didn't allow these things then we would have no free will, and if he punished us as soon as we messed up then we would never have time to turn to him(ex.God is being patient with the world now keeping them from His wrath, so that they can turn to Jesus,) God has given us a grace period smile Sometimes God intervenes and other times he Does not, we don't know how He thinks so don't try(it's really hard)
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Posted: Thu May 26, 2005 5:26 pm
Kajitora I see so u believe if the definition were to be changed u would change ur view am i correct?? EX: Manslaughter w/ out thought of a life. (hey want some water wink jesus prayed over it j/k LOL) I think you mean, if we change the word. Manslaughter is slightly better, but still wrong. Involuntary manslaughter might be even better, however, it must still be illegal. Voluntary manslaughter, well, that's a simple, nope. (it too must be illegal); and is committed in the heat of passion (usually of minor crimes). If you want a legal term to describe abortion that relates to killing, then homicide would be best. Homicide is merely killing another person; it may be either legal, or illegal. (homicide is like the word killing, as it is a blanket term that describes the taking of another life, in any way.) So, I will allow you to say that abortion is homicide, but, I will not allow you to say (without trying to correct you) that abortion is murder (of either degree), or that abortion is manslaughter (of eiter voluntary nature).
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