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 Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 9:49 am
lioness of midnight Being eccletic means that you understand different cultures Your understanding is clearly lacking here since you are pushing a completely foreign cosmology onto Norse mythos. Quote: and go with right feels right and who calls for you from different pantheons. You know, some people think that it feels right to rape little kids as part of their witchcraft. I guess we simply expect more than "what feels right". Shame on us. Quote: I worship gods from two different pantheons but I don't feel like having to explain that to you. Because the gods know you wouldn't understand. Ah, so rather than actually discussing the theological and historical context for a given practice, you think that waving your hands and demeaning others is going to excuse your behavior. Got it.
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Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 9:53 am
TeaDidikai lioness of midnight Being eccletic means that you understand different cultures Your understanding is clearly lacking here since you are pushing a completely foreign cosmology onto Norse mythos. Quote: and go with right feels right and who calls for you from different pantheons. You know, some people think that it feels right to rape little kids as part of their witchcraft. I guess we simply expect more than "what feels right". Shame on us. Quote: I worship gods from two different pantheons but I don't feel like having to explain that to you. Because the gods know you wouldn't understand. Ah, so rather than actually discussing the theological and historical context for a given practice, you think that waving your hands and demeaning others is going to excuse your behavior. Got it. No, I think that you all are completely difficult and it annoys me. No one can post in this guild without having to get a bunch of people arguing with you. I had several other people tell me that's how this guild was.
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Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 9:58 am
lioness of midnight No, I think that you all are completely difficult and it annoys me. I can understand how people having standards would be annoying. I can understand how someone who is Fluff would be put off by being challenged. After all, when you think you know something and it turns out to be flawed, having to admit you're wrong can be difficult. Quote: No one can post in this guild without having to get a bunch of people arguing with you. Actually, over the last few days we've had three different people who were actually interested in not being Fluffy come in and post. It was refreshing. Looks like our streak is over. Quote: I had several other people tell me that's how this guild was. That's nothing. There used to be a whole guild dedicated to bitching about how mean Cu and Nuri were. It's to be expected from fluffies.
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Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 10:01 am
TeaDidikai lioness of midnight No, I think that you all are completely difficult and it annoys me. I can understand how people having standards would be annoying. I can understand how someone who is Fluff would be put off by being challenged. After all, when you think you know something and it turns out to be flawed, having to admit you're wrong can be difficult. Quote: No one can post in this guild without having to get a bunch of people arguing with you. Actually, over the last few days we've had three different people who were actually interested in not being Fluffy come in and post. It was refreshing. Looks like our streak is over. Quote: I had several other people tell me that's how this guild was. That's nothing. There used to be a whole guild dedicated to bitching about how mean Cu and Nuri were. It's to be expected from fluffies. Oh please you call me a fluff and you all don't even know the mythology behind the god Loki. To be challlenged for every thing you post is not living up to someone's standards it's just annoying to have to explain the reason for every feeling you have and everything you have learned in my years of study. Because not everything can be explained. From others past experiences in here references don't matter anyway. I mean I know people who have posted references and they got ripped apart so what does it matter anyway.
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Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 10:02 am
lioness of midnight The reason some people consider Loki to be dark is because he is a trickster deity and the myths do not exactly put him in a favorable light. Except when he's being awesome and being considered a friend to man in some songs. I mean, heck, there's even two versions of Baldur's death, considered by many to be his most famous 'evil deed'. One of the poems (admittedly, the worse written one and one that rarely gets play in modern times because of it) actually paints Loki as uninvolved - Baldur is the engineer of his own demise. From what I read, there's actually a third version suggested - one in which Loki plays the willing martyr to Odin's plans, because the Allfather knew what was coming (vis a vis, Ragnarok and the sundering of the worlds with only Helheim untouched), and sends Baldur to the only place he could return from unscathed post-Ragnarok...
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Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 10:04 am
Anyway, back to the point as to why you are wrong, what makes your position fluffy, is that you are arguing that Loki is a "dark god", when in fact, not only does his mythology not ascribe this to him, but it clearly is an external projection onto a foreign system.
Let's face it. The translations wherein Loki is vilified stem from one source- which was translated and preserved by Monks who added their personal commentary based on their poor understanding of their own theological traditions. In the same way they screwed up when they turned ha Satan into a Ahriman figure, they screwed up when they then projected their understanding of Satan onto Loki.
And you, by perpetuating this understanding, are perpetuating it's errors over scholarship and critical evaluation.
And that's even before we get into the ethics of lifting deities out of a Dharmic theology and applying them to an ideology that has no room for them to function as they are obligated.
Perhaps it would be better if, instead of misrepresenting other traditions by lifting names and figures from them, you came up with your own names.
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Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 10:09 am
lioness of midnight Oh please you call me a fluff and you all don't even know the mythology behind the god Loki. s**t. Who the hell was I reading about in the Eddas?! And damn, I guess that adaptation of The Recovery of Mjolnir I turned into a Feast-Drama was all just a dream. Holy s**t. Quote: To be challlenged for every thing you post is not living up to someone's standards it's just annoying to have to explain the reason for every feeling you have and everything you have learned in my years of study. How curious. So, you're opposed to being asked to critically examine your positions then? Quote: Because not everything can be explained. From others past experiences in here references don't matter anyway. I mean I know people who have posted references and they got ripped apart so what does it matter anyway. Perhaps you might... oh wait... I know what this is about. It's from the Otherkin thread where it was demonstrated that the medical claims celticfireguardian was making were demonstrably wrong. Yes. Citing flawed sources doesn't magically make them correct for merely citing them.
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Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 10:09 am
I still disagree with being called a fluffy b/c you all think I read one mistranslated or misinformed text.
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Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 10:16 am
lioness of midnight I still disagree with being called a fluffy b/c you all think I read one mistranslated or misinformed text. No, you're being called a fluffy because rather than engaging in an honest discussion with critical examination of the matter, you're resorting to "La la la la la! I can't hear all the mean people who don't mindlessly agree with me! La la la la la!" Hence why Byaggha and I offered commentary on the actual primary sources, rather than saying "No U Suck!"
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Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 10:22 am
TeaDidikai lioness of midnight I still disagree with being called a fluffy b/c you all think I read one mistranslated or misinformed text. No, you're being called a fluffy because rather than engaging in an honest discussion with critical examination of the matter, you're resorting to "La la la la la! I can't hear all the mean people who don't mindlessly agree with me! La la la la la!" Hence why Byaggha and I offered commentary on the actual primary sources, rather than saying "No U Suck!" Okay fine I'll give you that and apologize for not feeling like instant debate. I was tired and not in the mood. Although, I still say that not everything question can be proven.
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Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 10:30 am
lioness of midnight Okay fine I'll give you that and apologize for not feeling like instant debate. Apology accepted. Quote: Although, I still say that not everything question can be proven. No one said it could be. confused Are you retracting your claims about Loki as well? Any commentary on removing deities from Dharmic traditions and placing them in roles where they cannot function?
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Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 10:35 am
Okay I will say that Loki isn't a dark deity no matter what some other people say.
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Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 10:41 am
lioness of midnight Okay I will say that Loki isn't a dark deity no matter what some other people say. Fair enough. And the ethics of being an eclectic in regards to removing Dharmic gods from their path?
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Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 10:43 am
lioness of midnight Dark is the other side of the balance of the light, one needs both to have balance. Oh great, a hard binary. *facepalm* Quote: The reason some people consider Loki to be dark is because he is a trickster deity and the myths do not exactly put him in a favorable light. I'm going to temporarily ignore your completely lacking comprehension of Norse mythos. I figure Tea and Byaggha can handle that ******** before Celeblin gets here and curbstomps you verbally (if you're lucky). So ignoring your misunderstandings of Loki, what does being a trickster have to do with being the other side of light? Do you not know what Light is either? Or how that balancing spectrum works?
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Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 10:45 am
lioness of midnight too2sweet Part of the "wrongness" of the original quote is that the "Lord" and "Lady" refer to specific deities. Trying to randomly stick other deities into those roles is disrespectful...not only to the Lord and Lady, but to those who are actual members of their Priesthood (Wiccans). Quote: Cultural misappropriation???????????? wtf what do you think an ecclectic pagan is? They worship deities and have ideas from different cultures. Instead of crawling up my butt how about crucify the person that original said that there is something wrong with worshipping either deity. That person was not me so back off! Being Eclectic does not entitle one to pick and chose whatever they want, without any regard from the cultures/paths that they are drawing from...there needs to be respect and understanding of those cultures/paths. There are certain cultures/paths that are closed to outsiders. This means that no matter how much one of these cultures/paths seems to resonate with us, if we are not a member (or have not met the "entry" requirements) of these particular cultures/paths, we do not have any authority to take any part of it, or claim that we are a member of it. In an Eclectic practice it is important to make sure that the cultures/paths that one is drawing from actually make sense being mixed together. It has always seemed a bit silly to me to try to force other deities into the roles of the Lord and Lady, especially when most deities already have their own myths/lore. Being eccletic means that you understand different cultures and go with right feels right and who calls for you from different pantheons. Again just because it feels right to you, doesn't mean that it is right. We are not always entitled to take that which we want. Believe me I understand the frustration (I really do), but I know that if I can't show the proper respect for that which I want to be a part of, then I'm really not worthy to be a part of it. Quote: I worship gods from two different pantheons but I don't feel like having to explain that to you. Because the gods know you wouldn't understand. There is nothing wrong with worshiping Gods from differing pantheons. The issue is when one takes those Gods and tries to force them into roles that directly contradict their own lore/myths. The example was that someone was invoking Loki and Kali as the Lord and Lady.. Each of those deities has their own associated lore, that most definitely does not correspond to the Wheel of the Year, and trying to make them fit, is disrespectful (at the very least). Those two deities in particular, are ones I really wouldn't necessarily want on my bad side either, so it would be in my best interest to try to get it right if I was going to worship them. While it can be difficult to face the fact that one might be mistaken about something (and there is a ton of misinformation out there, so it is very easy end up with the wrong info and not even know it gonk ), we usually come out better in the end, if we face it head on, rather than dig our heels in and refuse to even consider it. Look at it this way, almost all of us have been on the receiving end of this kind of discussion (more than once in some cases sweatdrop )it isn't always fun, but it is a great learning experience.
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