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 Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 6:03 pm
La Veuve Zin Beware the Jabberwock LIES! They feed off the love of God. I'm reminded of the Family Guy episode: *Peter waves empty bag* "Hey JC, we're out of chips." "Look again." "...oh, thanks..." In my city, there have been dozens of Catholic churches closing recently, since their congregations have shrunk to the point where they can't afford to keep the building up to code. This is after selling all the pretty gold decor. I remember the first time I saw inside a Protestant church when I was little; I was confused why it was so plain and boring. No statues, no icons, no tapestries, no chandeliers...not even any stained glass!
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Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 7:39 pm
Beware the Jabberwock XD My mom's church has a Kantata every Christmas and I went with my boyfriend (he was kind of raised Catholic). Anyway he looked around the church and went "Where's the confessional?" I just started laughing. My mom is a protestant. ...they don't have confessionals? ...I'm still ignorant, sheesh... When I was in Catholic school, they called it "reconciliation," probably to make it sound less demeaning. xp
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Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 10:23 pm
o.O How are confessions demeaning?
Reconciliation is the official name of the sacrament. A confession is a "case," if you will, of reconciliation. 3nodding
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Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 4:58 pm
divineseraph lymelady I'm slightly insulted that you think my religion is about buying God. Yeah, that's why they do so much to help the poor. Because they're hoping to squeeze those homeless people out of every penny they have! Those poor, homeless pregnant women? They're goldmines. That's right, Catholicism is about buying God. Every mass, we say the Nicene Creed, and sandwiched between "With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified," and, "He has spoken through the Prophets," we have this line that goes, "We believe in buying God with pieces of paper and shiny metals, because that is the true way to salvation. Nevermind all of the church teachings urging people to give to charity, nevermind all the church teachings telling people to put God and spirituality before material things (including money), no no, disregard all of that because gold is so damn pretty it's worth killing for." No. I'm sorry. No. If you want to call it idolatry that we choose to depict holy things artistically (yes, dammit, jewelry, statues, paintings, they're all art as much as a poem venerating God is, they're just visual in nature), then be my guest, but your basic argument that money has no real value and therefore it is shallow to use it is pretty flawed, considering that the argument places value on gold. You wouldn't be complaining if the art was expressed in words on paper. So why is it different when it's something traditionally considered valuable? Why is that form of art unacceptable to you? Why is that form of expression bad, and "buying God?" Humans put value on those items, not God, and if you truly believe that material goods are second to spiritualism, then it shouldn't matter what medium an artist chooses to use. But you've decided that since sometimes, (and yes, it really only is sometimes, far more often then not, these artistic expressions are worthless beyond the meaning that they express) valuable materials are used, we worship money and buy God. So go ahead, and pretend that you're holding true to anti-capitalist ideals, but the truth is, you're putting just as much value on those materials as anyone else does, otherwise, you'd have no problem with people using them. It can be argued that you put even more value on them, if you think it's such a waste to use it in that way. Personally? I believe that art and self-expression is never a waste, but if you think it is, if you think that God has a problem with art involving Him and things related to Him, that's your right. Go ahead, say my religion is evil, say that I worship money over God, do it, I've heard it a thousand times before from a thousand other people. No, not donating to people. People and God are not the same thing, I'm pretty sure. Giving a donation to people is what God would like, greatly. It would be giving away your useless money to aid another. I'm talking about decorating a church in opulence. Using enough gold to help hundreds of other people to decorate a church seems akward. Using the same money that could be helping people... to cover a church in gold that God probably doesn't want. It's the opposite of the idea. It's absurd to me to see people preaching about helping the poor, reading from a gold-plated bible from a gem-encrusted pedestal. Where do you think most of the money goes? And also, I'd like to ask...have you ever thought of the motivation behind decorating a church in opulence? What the effect is? What it does? For one, there is sacrifice. Andy's touched on that, and whether you like it or not, parishoners like to gift their churches with items which last for generations and inspire countless people. In the short term, that wealth, yes, can be used to feed people. In the form of physical items of veneration, however, they can inspire people for years, even centuries. Have you ever seen the Sistine Chapel? Have you been there in person, looked up at it, and been inspired? I haven't, but I know people who have, and the effect on them is profound. The effect on me, personally, when I walk into a church with beautiful stained glass windows and paintings on the ceiling is just...I can't even put it in words. It's awe-inspiring. It's humbling. And you know what? It makes it easier to follow my religion. Maybe you don't believe in the power of inspiration that art can confer upon human beings. And if so, I can understand why you would feel that it's just a waste. But at least try and understand other people. Most of the money does go to charity. Have you looked into this? Truly? Or are you going off of assumptions? There are times when parishoners will donate money specifically for art to decorate churches, because they feel that the emotions and inspirations I discussed are important. They feel that that will do the most good and help the most people because the help it gives is spiritual and speaks to our God-granted minds, minds which appreciate beauty and creativity, minds which draw inspiration and spiritual strength from all sorts of things in life, including art. And if, as you say, Jesus thinks we should give our money because it leads us to sin, then what is wrong with choosing to give it in this manner? It's a sacrifice that benefits people. But you know what? Mostly, money goes directly to helping people. Every single member of the Catholic church is instructed to give to the needy when able. Every member is encouraged to contribute to parish events to help those who need it. And no, crimes of passion are very common. There have been times where I've wanted to kill one individual, and it has nothing to do with money, and I'm not crazy, he just hurt me very badly and I wanted to kill him. I wanted to protect myself, I wanted to protect any other women in this world that he might prey upon, I wanted to get back at him for what he'd done to me, and no, I'm not proud of it, but my point is, it had nothing to do with greed or a serious mental condition, it was hatred, pure and simple.
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Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 6:37 am
lymelady divineseraph lymelady I'm slightly insulted that you think my religion is about buying God. Yeah, that's why they do so much to help the poor. Because they're hoping to squeeze those homeless people out of every penny they have! Those poor, homeless pregnant women? They're goldmines. That's right, Catholicism is about buying God. Every mass, we say the Nicene Creed, and sandwiched between "With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified," and, "He has spoken through the Prophets," we have this line that goes, "We believe in buying God with pieces of paper and shiny metals, because that is the true way to salvation. Nevermind all of the church teachings urging people to give to charity, nevermind all the church teachings telling people to put God and spirituality before material things (including money), no no, disregard all of that because gold is so damn pretty it's worth killing for." No. I'm sorry. No. If you want to call it idolatry that we choose to depict holy things artistically (yes, dammit, jewelry, statues, paintings, they're all art as much as a poem venerating God is, they're just visual in nature), then be my guest, but your basic argument that money has no real value and therefore it is shallow to use it is pretty flawed, considering that the argument places value on gold. You wouldn't be complaining if the art was expressed in words on paper. So why is it different when it's something traditionally considered valuable? Why is that form of art unacceptable to you? Why is that form of expression bad, and "buying God?" Humans put value on those items, not God, and if you truly believe that material goods are second to spiritualism, then it shouldn't matter what medium an artist chooses to use. But you've decided that since sometimes, (and yes, it really only is sometimes, far more often then not, these artistic expressions are worthless beyond the meaning that they express) valuable materials are used, we worship money and buy God. So go ahead, and pretend that you're holding true to anti-capitalist ideals, but the truth is, you're putting just as much value on those materials as anyone else does, otherwise, you'd have no problem with people using them. It can be argued that you put even more value on them, if you think it's such a waste to use it in that way. Personally? I believe that art and self-expression is never a waste, but if you think it is, if you think that God has a problem with art involving Him and things related to Him, that's your right. Go ahead, say my religion is evil, say that I worship money over God, do it, I've heard it a thousand times before from a thousand other people. No, not donating to people. People and God are not the same thing, I'm pretty sure. Giving a donation to people is what God would like, greatly. It would be giving away your useless money to aid another. I'm talking about decorating a church in opulence. Using enough gold to help hundreds of other people to decorate a church seems akward. Using the same money that could be helping people... to cover a church in gold that God probably doesn't want. It's the opposite of the idea. It's absurd to me to see people preaching about helping the poor, reading from a gold-plated bible from a gem-encrusted pedestal. Where do you think most of the money goes? And also, I'd like to ask...have you ever thought of the motivation behind decorating a church in opulence? What the effect is? What it does? For one, there is sacrifice. Andy's touched on that, and whether you like it or not, parishoners like to gift their churches with items which last for generations and inspire countless people. In the short term, that wealth, yes, can be used to feed people. In the form of physical items of veneration, however, they can inspire people for years, even centuries. Have you ever seen the Sistine Chapel? Have you been there in person, looked up at it, and been inspired? I haven't, but I know people who have, and the effect on them is profound. The effect on me, personally, when I walk into a church with beautiful stained glass windows and paintings on the ceiling is just...I can't even put it in words. It's awe-inspiring. It's humbling. And you know what? It makes it easier to follow my religion. Maybe you don't believe in the power of inspiration that art can confer upon human beings. And if so, I can understand why you would feel that it's just a waste. But at least try and understand other people. Most of the money does go to charity. Have you looked into this? Truly? Or are you going off of assumptions? There are times when parishoners will donate money specifically for art to decorate churches, because they feel that the emotions and inspirations I discussed are important. They feel that that will do the most good and help the most people because the help it gives is spiritual and speaks to our God-granted minds, minds which appreciate beauty and creativity, minds which draw inspiration and spiritual strength from all sorts of things in life, including art. And if, as you say, Jesus thinks we should give our money because it leads us to sin, then what is wrong with choosing to give it in this manner? It's a sacrifice that benefits people. But you know what? Mostly, money goes directly to helping people. Every single member of the Catholic church is instructed to give to the needy when able. Every member is encouraged to contribute to parish events to help those who need it. And no, crimes of passion are very common. There have been times where I've wanted to kill one individual, and it has nothing to do with money, and I'm not crazy, he just hurt me very badly and I wanted to kill him. I wanted to protect myself, I wanted to protect any other women in this world that he might prey upon, I wanted to get back at him for what he'd done to me, and no, I'm not proud of it, but my point is, it had nothing to do with greed or a serious mental condition, it was hatred, pure and simple. Know what I find beautiful? works of God himself. Trees, water, the sky, the stars, nebulae. Hydrogen bonds. The intricacies in the world. And at what cost? It's just money. God is not in a building. That is a synthetic feeling of God, I believe. It is man trying to impose the feeling of God on other men. It is not neccesarily God, nor his will. It is men trying to buy a feeling of God with gold. And yes, the money donated. but I mean again, the gemstones and gold used in decoration. Very, very expensive representation of God. And yes, those do occur and are unavoidable. But why do most thefts occur? For the rush of the hunt alone? Why would embezzling occur? Because business owners like to feel like bad, bad people? Why does fraud occur? To practice tomfoolery? Money motivates, and often in bad directions.
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Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 2:28 pm
And I find that beautiful as well. Very beautiful. But that doesn't take away from the beauty of art. It doesn't take away from the feelings inspired by art. Who are you to judge what God intends us to find beauty in? Who are you to say that artists shouldn't express their feelings of God, and convey it to other people? Who are you to say that's not worth the money? And if "it's just money," then why not? If money holds no value to God, which it doesn't, then why not use it? Why is it men trying to buy a feeling of God with gold? I never paid to look at anything. I never paid to feel what I felt when looking at the ceiling, anymore than I pay when I read the bible, which is another piece of art that sends us a message and inspires us. So why is one of them wrong, and one of them isn't? Why is one buying God? Just because it cost more to make initially? Well if "it's just money," then what does that matter? If someone does things with the thought that, "If I spend this much money, then I will get into heaven," then I agree, they're trying to buy God. But if they do something for the reasons I mentioned, that's not buying God anymore than the people or person who put pen to paper to write the Psalms.
I will agree with you that greed is a big reason for crime, but it is not either that or a serious mental instability, which was your claim. Crimes occur for a variety of reasons. What money does a parent gain from beating his child? What money does a rapist gain from violating another human? It may come down to greed, but greed doesn't always mean money. It can mean wealth, it can mean power, it can mean respect, but it's a little simplistic to blame money for society's ills, which is what it seems like you're doing when you say, "ALL crimes are based on either money, or a serious mental condition."
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Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 6:50 am
lymelady And I find that beautiful as well. Very beautiful. But that doesn't take away from the beauty of art. It doesn't take away from the feelings inspired by art. Who are you to judge what God intends us to find beauty in? Who are you to say that artists shouldn't express their feelings of God, and convey it to other people? Who are you to say that's not worth the money? And if "it's just money," then why not? If money holds no value to God, which it doesn't, then why not use it? Why is it men trying to buy a feeling of God with gold? I never paid to look at anything. I never paid to feel what I felt when looking at the ceiling, anymore than I pay when I read the bible, which is another piece of art that sends us a message and inspires us. So why is one of them wrong, and one of them isn't? Why is one buying God? Just because it cost more to make initially? Well if "it's just money," then what does that matter? If someone does things with the thought that, "If I spend this much money, then I will get into heaven," then I agree, they're trying to buy God. But if they do something for the reasons I mentioned, that's not buying God anymore than the people or person who put pen to paper to write the Psalms. I will agree with you that greed is a big reason for crime, but it is not either that or a serious mental instability, which was your claim. Crimes occur for a variety of reasons. What money does a parent gain from beating his child? What money does a rapist gain from violating another human? It may come down to greed, but greed doesn't always mean money. It can mean wealth, it can mean power, it can mean respect, but it's a little simplistic to blame money for society's ills, which is what it seems like you're doing when you say, "ALL crimes are based on either money, or a serious mental condition." It is just money, but in this system it has value, which is truly unfortunate. It is like choosing between making a golden mosaic of God or feeding a few dozen people. And since god doesn't need gold, and since people don't need to see gold to see God, and since God prefers us helping people with our money or time or whatever, I feel that feeding people and having a plain meeting place would be a better investment. Rapists aren't seriously mentally troubled? People who beat their kids aren't messed up in the head? Yes, there is a gred factor invovled, but many of these are compounded by issues of not being able to hold back from the greed- There i no doubt in my mind that rapists do not have the same minds or thought processes of normal people. And many crimes spawned by hate come from such a thing- as with your case, I would assume... Had the messed up a*****e who did whatever had never been ******** up in the first place, what would your motivation to hate him be?
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Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 3:21 pm
And I can understand you feeling that way, but I disagree, and I do not feel it is "buying God," or "trying to buy God," which is what you claim it is. I understand completely that you would disagree or you'd do something differently, but all I'm asking is that you respect the motivations and feelings of other people, even if you disagree with it.
And no. Some rapists are undoubtedly seriously mentally troubled, but the scariest thing about rapists? So many of them are normal. They do bad things, very, very bad things, but if it they had a serious mental condition, they'd be pleading insanity all over the place. The same is true with child abuse, the same is true with bullies who beat people up, the same is true with gang members, and murderers. It's sick, it's twisted, it's wrong, but it happens far too often to say that it's a mental condition to the point where they're rare. They happen just as often as crimes involving money. The jerk who mistreated me...yes. He had problems. But mostly? He was just a bully. There are tons of bullies out there in this world, and taking away money isn't going to change that, it's not going to make it easier to avoid, because just as there is goodness in every single person, there is badness too. There is greed. There is resentment. There is lust. And choosing not to control these feelings and instead taking what you want isn't a mental condition, it is a choice to do the wrong thing. It is a choice to be a bad person. And people make that choice without being insane, Divine. They make those choices every day, because it is the more pleasurable choice. It is evil. That is Satan's trap. To make the wrong thing justifiable. To tempt us to give in to our desires even when it hurts others. It is the nature of evil, and it isn't usually a mental condition, it is a choice. I wish I had enough faith in people to believe that when they choose to do wrong, it's because they're messed up in the head, but it happens far too often.
Had he never hurt me? No. I wouldn't hate him right now. I wouldn't have ever had reason to start. But he made the choice to do it. And he didn't do it because he's mentally unstable. He did it because he could. He wanted to. He chose to hurt someone in a way which someone like yourself would never dream of hurting someone, because you, Divine, have a wonderful moral compass. You wouldn't choose to hurt someone like that, because you're a good person. But he wasn't.
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Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 4:53 pm
I am your God, kneel to me and ........ pay ?
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Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 3:15 pm
lymelady And I can understand you feeling that way, but I disagree, and I do not feel it is "buying God," or "trying to buy God," which is what you claim it is. I understand completely that you would disagree or you'd do something differently, but all I'm asking is that you respect the motivations and feelings of other people, even if you disagree with it. And no. Some rapists are undoubtedly seriously mentally troubled, but the scariest thing about rapists? So many of them are normal. They do bad things, very, very bad things, but if it they had a serious mental condition, they'd be pleading insanity all over the place. The same is true with child abuse, the same is true with bullies who beat people up, the same is true with gang members, and murderers. It's sick, it's twisted, it's wrong, but it happens far too often to say that it's a mental condition to the point where they're rare. They happen just as often as crimes involving money. The jerk who mistreated me...yes. He had problems. But mostly? He was just a bully. There are tons of bullies out there in this world, and taking away money isn't going to change that, it's not going to make it easier to avoid, because just as there is goodness in every single person, there is badness too. There is greed. There is resentment. There is lust. And choosing not to control these feelings and instead taking what you want isn't a mental condition, it is a choice to do the wrong thing. It is a choice to be a bad person. And people make that choice without being insane, Divine. They make those choices every day, because it is the more pleasurable choice. It is evil. That is Satan's trap. To make the wrong thing justifiable. To tempt us to give in to our desires even when it hurts others. It is the nature of evil, and it isn't usually a mental condition, it is a choice. I wish I had enough faith in people to believe that when they choose to do wrong, it's because they're messed up in the head, but it happens far too often. Had he never hurt me? No. I wouldn't hate him right now. I wouldn't have ever had reason to start. But he made the choice to do it. And he didn't do it because he's mentally unstable. He did it because he could. He wanted to. He chose to hurt someone in a way which someone like yourself would never dream of hurting someone, because you, Divine, have a wonderful moral compass. You wouldn't choose to hurt someone like that, because you're a good person. But he wasn't. Ah, yes. I agree, it is one's right to do what they will. But I think, and have evidence in favor, that God isn't the way many churches like to see him. Especially heavy right-wing conservatives. It seems to me that Jesus said, basically, "Don't kill people and forget about material possessions and earthly things" and the conservatives hear that as "Kill people over material possessions and earthly things". I suppose I'm more pissed off at the conservative selectivity in a clearly wrong direction, but the opulence is another little thing that is kind of like "Hm? You what now?" And as for rapists- why do they feel they can do these things? Because they simply WANT to? why didn't you kill him? You apparently wanted to. Something in you, some choice of yours, some part of your mind, told you that killing is wrong. This part apparently doesn't exist for them. It's not saying that they catch rapism or are born with rapism, but rapists are not like normal people, be it by choice, mental problems or a compounding of both.
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Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 8:11 pm
Just because someone doesn't listen to that part saying "It's wrong," doesn't mean that the part is missing. I do bad things at times and think while doing them, "This is wrong," but I still do them. What you are describing is basically a sociopath. I know that's not the politically correct term, but I'm too tired to look up the real term at the moment. Someone who honestly does not have that part of the brain saying, "This is wrong." If that's what it takes to be qualified as a serious mental condition in your mind, then the problem is not going to be an easy one to fix if money is taken out of the equation.
The abuse statistics are chilling. Worldwide, 1 in 3 women have faced abuse. Here in America, every two seconds someone is sexually assaulted. Every 8 minutes, someone is raped. 2,450 children a day are found to be victims of abuse or neglect. In 2004, over a thousand children died from abuse and neglect. This is too large a scale for it to be a serious mental condition that's rare and more avoidable than crimes which involve money.
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Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 7:50 pm
lymelady Just because someone doesn't listen to that part saying "It's wrong," doesn't mean that the part is missing. I do bad things at times and think while doing them, "This is wrong," but I still do them. What you are describing is basically a sociopath. I know that's not the politically correct term, but I'm too tired to look up the real term at the moment. Someone who honestly does not have that part of the brain saying, "This is wrong." If that's what it takes to be qualified as a serious mental condition in your mind, then the problem is not going to be an easy one to fix if money is taken out of the equation. The abuse statistics are chilling. Worldwide, 1 in 3 women have faced abuse. Here in America, every two seconds someone is sexually assaulted. Every 8 minutes, someone is raped. 2,450 children a day are found to be victims of abuse or neglect. In 2004, over a thousand children died from abuse and neglect. This is too large a scale for it to be a serious mental condition that's rare and more avoidable than crimes which involve money. Wow that's scary, I didn't know rhe abuse rate was that high.
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Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 1:15 pm
I used to be athiest but I recently becam Christian. 3nodding
I consider myself to be Protestant... not like Roman Catholic. In fact I disagree with some of the things extreme Roman Catholics practice. For instance, I don't agree with praying to Mary. What is the point of that? She was a normal human being; she won't answer your prayers. I also disagree with confessionals. You can confess to God directly. If you feel like you need to tell a person, speak with a friend or family member. God already knows what you've done, I don't see any use in telling a priest in order to tell God. Also, I've heard (but I'm not sure it's true) that the priest needs to be completely confidential, so if someone came and said "Oh, I murdered someone" they're not allowed to turn them in or anything so that murderer can basically be "forgiven of his sins" and then he can go sin again and be forgiven again, etc. Not only that, but who is the priest, a normal, sinful human being (as we are all sinners) to forgive someone of their sins?
I believe in God and that Jesus died for our sins and I believe in the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, but I acknowledge the fact that a lot of (and most) Christians practice things that make them hypocrites. I guess it's human nature, though. 3nodding
I just don't like when people who don't believe in God use "CHRISTIANS ARE HYPOCRITES; THE CHURCH IS HYPOCRITICAL, etc." as an argument as to why they don't believe in God. neutral
The way I found my faith was actually through science...
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Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 8:00 pm
God answers prayers, and God forgives sins. Catholics don't believe that priests forgive sins, but that they are instruments of God. You can go to confession all you want, but if you're not truly repentant, then Catholic teaching is that it does absolutely nothing for you, except compound your sins with another one. The same way that going into any sacrament, if you're just going through the motions, you don't really benefit; you have to mean it, because God knows your heart, even if no one else does. So while it's true that a priest is bound to keep sins that are confessed completely confidential...for the reason that it is between God and the sinner...it's not like someone who's sinned, be it murder or swearing, and doesn't truly repent is forgiven. A priest, a normal, sinful human being isn't forgiving someone's sins, but God is, and Jesus Christ gave us the sacrament of reconciliation when He came back after the crucifixion. John 20:23 "Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; [and] whose soever [sins] ye retain, they are retained."
I'm also going to say, we're not praying to Mary to do something. We're praying for Mary's intercession; basically, we're praying to her to pray with us. We pray to a lot of saints (not just canonized ones, I pray to my Nana and Grandpa at times), and people often choose to pray to saints who were in similar situations. The same way I ask my mother to pray for me, I ask my friends to pray for me, and in turn I pray for them, I ask Mary to pray for me.
I'm not asking you to agree, I'm just explaining what I know. And I'm not doing a very good job of it, there are probably other people who could explain it better. Edit: And there it is below me xd
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Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 8:24 pm
Undiscovered Artist I used to be athiest but I recently becam Christian. 3nodding I consider myself to be Protestant... not like Roman Catholic. In fact I disagree with some of the things extreme Roman Catholics practice. For instance, I don't agree with praying to Mary. What is the point of that? She was a normal human being; she won't answer your prayers. We do not pray to Mary in the way that you would pray to God. The way it's usually explained is that Mary is Jesus' mother. And Jesus is kind of a momma's boy, honestly. So we pray to Mary to talk to Jesus on our behalf, so that -she- can talk to Him about it, and hopefully convince Him of our case. Quote: I also disagree with confessionals. You can confess to God directly. If you feel like you need to tell a person, speak with a friend or family member. God already knows what you've done, I don't see any use in telling a priest in order to tell God. Confessionals are actually a very interesting subject to me! First, you aren't confessing to the Priest. My original thoughts on the matter were that you went to a Priest in order to basically face your sins yourself. If you can just confess to God on your own, knowing that God will forgive all sins, it becomes a sort of off-hand thing. You sin, you say sorry, you move on. Confession -never- becomes offhand. Gah. No one likes confession. So it forces you to -really- examine yourself, and to humble yourself by speaking with a human being about it. But recently I've come to see the confessional as much more than that. Really, it's a service the Church provides; The earliest form of psychiatry. Which, really, if you think about it, it is exactly like psychiatry in a lot of ways. You tell the Priest about things you've done, things which are probably bothering you. I don't know about the old days, but in modern times, the Priest frequently gives you advice on how to stop sinning. And no matter what you tell the Priest, he is held by the Seal of the Confessional to not tell anyone else. Now, I see the concern about people who commit murder and confess it to a Priest but... Well, there are a few things. 1. If they confess it, and I mean truly confess it, then they are sorry for what they've done. Which is true of many murderers, but nevertheless. 2. If a Priest's testimony that the defendant confessed to murder is your "winning" evidence, you're in big trouble. It's not that major a piece of evidence, because the Priest never saw anything, probably doesn't even know the person personally, and may not even know what the person's name is or what their face looks like; Confession actually provides some anonymity in most cases, unless you really want to sit right across from the Priest. 3. I'm pretty sure it's not law that you have to inform the Police if you hear of someone committing murder. So legally there is no reason why the Priest should have to. And you -can- confess to God directly for all venial, or minor, sins. In fact, those sins are washed away every week through the Eucharist. However, mortal sins, or major sins, are more serious, and so require the attention of a Priest. Quote: Also, I've heard (but I'm not sure it's true) that the priest needs to be completely confidential, so if someone came and said "Oh, I murdered someone" they're not allowed to turn them in or anything so that murderer can basically be "forgiven of his sins" and then he can go sin again and be forgiven again, etc. Not only that, but who is the priest, a normal, sinful human being (as we are all sinners) to forgive someone of their sins? The Priest does not forgive sins. God forgives sins through the Priest. The purpose of the Priest is to give a real and solid person to speak to; I mean, of course God is real, but He doesn't have a physical presence that you can speak to. So it's a lot easier to think of Him differently than you do another person, and sort of turn God into just a force of good, rather than an actual being, you know what I mean? Like. Most people aren't afraid to tell God anything. Because you don't think of God as judging you, and besides, God sees everything anyways. And you can't reach out and touch God, so most people, even if they believe in God, have trouble mentally accepting God? I don't know if I'm explaining myself correctly. For most people, God is an abstract idea. There we go. So whereas God is abstract to many people, a Priest is solid. You can't deny in any way that the Priest exists; You can reach out and touch him, you see him every week at Mass. So it's a lot harder to speak to a Priest about your sins than it is to quickly say, "God, I'm sorry I did that." and move on. Quote: I believe in God and that Jesus died for our sins and I believe in the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, but I acknowledge the fact that a lot of (and most) Christians practice things that make them hypocrites. I guess it's human nature, though. 3nodding I just don't like when people who don't believe in God use "CHRISTIANS ARE HYPOCRITES; THE CHURCH IS HYPOCRITICAL, etc." as an argument as to why they don't believe in God. neutral The way I found my faith was actually through science... And I totally agree with that. xd Mm. I wish I could say that I thought Science proved that the Christian religion specifically was right, though. ^_^;;
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