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 Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 8:56 pm
I still dont see Goku taking a planet busting attack to his body...As for planet attacks I'm going to do more research on that. I do think he could hold one off though I'm not sure about taking a direct hit from it though but as far as redirecting it with his hands before it overcomes him yes. For the most part in phisical durability I've put them at about even mental durability I give to Superman seeing as he didnt instantly go insane under the torture of the agony matrix which would have killed almost anyone else by the shock alone.
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Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 9:18 pm
Are u saying Goku would not take it?
Because you obviously dont remember what kao ken did to his body.
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Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 9:19 pm
Can you prove to me that he would take it?
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Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 5:49 am
Before I try can you prove to me he can't?
It's like saying, Since they are two different universes, they have different air, and the air on the DBU earth contains a mineral that will cause Supes to spontaneously combust, because we have never seen him in the DBU air...
I go by the fact that Goku actually HAS gone through the pain.
He's been beaten so that nearly every bone in his body was broken. Then stepped on by a Giant Ape. (Goku/Vegeta; Saiyan Saga)
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Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 7:26 am
You're the one making the claim without backing it up. I dont have to prove anything as of yet until you present your case to me first. That made no sense at all and I've never heard anyone say something like that in a vs thread... Superman has been through worse.. Has Goku ever taken the worst pain hes ever felt times 1000? Until I see proof that he has Superman has taken pain surpassing anything Goku has endured.
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Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 8:01 am
First off, that was mental, not physical.
Secondly, Supes can't do it, so I don't see why this is an issue.
We are not seeing who would quit first, bc neither would.
There is no way to measuer pain.
You are using an unfair statistic, and you know it.
We cant measuer in lbs or cm^3, its PAIN.
Like I said, what was that trying to prove? That superman would not quite?
Fine, Lol, i already knew that.
He wont quite bc of pain, neither will Goku.
Issue breached.
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Saiyan Master Vegeta Vice Captain
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Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 9:06 am
Enigma Master Andrew I still dont see Goku taking a planet busting attack to his body...As for planet attacks I'm going to do more research on that. I do think he could hold one off though I'm not sure about taking a direct hit from it though but as far as redirecting it with his hands before it overcomes him yes. For the most part in phisical durability I've put them at about even mental durability I give to Superman seeing as he didnt instantly go insane under the torture of the agony matrix which would have killed almost anyone else by the shock alone. Mental durability isn't a significant factor in this battle anyway. I'll post the scans soon enough, but just so you know, Vegeta took the Kamehameha directly to his body, and survived. And from the Buu Saga, we know that Goku has greater durability than Vegeta, meaning Goku could take the same kind of hit. As for now, I'll just wait until you have the information needed to constitute Superman being able to take a planet-busting hit. Lastly, Goku can dish out attacks that are way above the standard needed to destroy a planet. If Superman actually can take a planet busting hit, then that's fine. But the problem is that Goku at the stage of SSJ and above has way more than needed to destroy a planet.
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Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 11:01 am
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Saiyan Master Vegeta Vice Captain
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Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 11:19 am
Enigma Master Andrew Heat vision Lobotomized a person... Ok by you saying that Vegeta I've been thinking on something. From what you guys have told me it also takes a couple of seconds to power up or go into SSJ now you say Goku would get away from Superbreath because it takes a couplke of seconds. Are you now denying that Superman would not have more than enough time to hit Goku as he was powering up etc..? Yes TAS Superman has been showed in outer space sometimes with a suit ( Only when he knows hes going to be there for a prolonged period of time) Like during Amazo's return. And sometimes without the use of it. Like when he tried to stop the death ray from fireing on Cadmus. Yes he was thrown into a creavase but he never actually touched the magma. Also Goku showed that he was in great pain because of it. You know, DBZ characters can power up whist getting the living crap kicked out of them.
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Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 11:28 pm
Saiyan Master Vegeta Enigma Master Andrew I still dont see Goku taking a planet busting attack to his body...As for planet attacks I'm going to do more research on that. I do think he could hold one off though I'm not sure about taking a direct hit from it though but as far as redirecting it with his hands before it overcomes him yes. For the most part in phisical durability I've put them at about even mental durability I give to Superman seeing as he didnt instantly go insane under the torture of the agony matrix which would have killed almost anyone else by the shock alone. Mental durability isn't a significant factor in this battle anyway. I'll post the scans soon enough, but just so you know, Vegeta took the Kamehameha directly to his body, and survived. And from the Buu Saga, we know that Goku has greater durability than Vegeta, meaning Goku could take the same kind of hit. As for now, I'll just wait until you have the information needed to constitute Superman being able to take a planet-busting hit. Lastly, Goku can dish out attacks that are way above the standard needed to destroy a planet. If Superman actually can take a planet busting hit, then that's fine. But the problem is that Goku at the stage of SSJ and above has way more than needed to destroy a planet. Actually it is. Because it meens that no matter how much pain Goku can dish out Superman will have the mental/will power to keep getting back up and fight through it. Like I said earlier Goku isnt going to use a planet busting attack against Superman... Superman's a good guy and isnt threatening the Earth so why would Goku use an attack of that scale?
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Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 12:18 am
Mental durability is still pointless, because it's not going to do Superman or Goku any good. Bolth of them can take as much pain as the sayjin/cryptonian nerve system is cappable of felling and continue fighting. One of them is going to have to KO the other.
Also, as I said before on the planet busting attack thing. Ki blasts don't just go in classes that jump from "knock person over" to "destroy big rock" to "destroy big mountain" to "Planet buster". They can be fin tuned to any ammount of power, and Goku would adjust his accordingly so that it could incapacitate but not kill Superman. He's fought and beaten tons of people without the intention of killing them without any trouble. So has Superman. Holding back to much so as to not kill the opponent won't be much of a problem for either side, methinks.
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Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 10:36 am
@ Andrew:
Refer to my manga scans above. Then talk to me about Goku's mental durability.
Saying Goku won't use a planet-busting attack is a convenient way to power him down. Goku will know what will, and what won't kill his opponent. Neither fighter will want to kill each other, but Goku will have no problem with attempting to beat him to the brink of death.
Goku isn't stupid. He will realize that he has to use a certain amount of force in order to win. He won't sacrafice a win for not using a planet-busting attack. And for clarification, a planet-busting attack does not mean he will destroy the planet.
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Saiyan Master Vegeta Vice Captain
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Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 2:08 pm
I'm not trying to power him down. I was thinking You guys where saying Goku would focus all of his power into one attack and fire it towards Superman but the concentrating that Kamikaze mentioned does seem likely. But While Goku is attempting to Adjust his power for that Purpose are you saying that Superman wouldn't realize what hes doing? After noticeing the blasts are getting stronger and starting to hurt more to where he feels they would be able to do serious damage. Instead of blocking Superman would start dodging. Also I wasn't saying that Goku didn't have alot of mental durability. Just that Superman had more of it than him that's all.
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Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 3:51 pm
Both have incredible mental durability. Let's leave it at that. An aspect like this can't be proven more superior for either character, no matter what either of us say.
As for Superman realizing what Goku's doing . . . that's likely. However, Instant Transmission Kamehameha would be Goku's trumph card. From what we know, Superman can't take more than a planet-busting hit. And a SSJ and above Kamehameha is way, way more than necessary to destroy a planet.
And I've also wanted to get the stats straight . . .
Strength: Goku.
Speed: I believe this goes to Goku, however this aspect hasn't been discussed as in-depth, therefore it's open for discussion.
Durability: Near even, however I believe this leans more towards Goku due to his brutal beating by Piccolo, and already being able to take a planet-busting hit. Superman, however, hasn't really been shown to take a full planet-busting hit from what you've said. And I don't believe he has endured the kind of beating in which Goku took from Piccolo. For the record, a planet busting hit and torturing the body are two different kinds of durability.
Endurance: About even. Can't really be proven to be superior for either character.
Intelligence: Superman.
Experience: Goku.
Now don't get me wrong. The titles that go to Goku are not by a landslide. Superman does come close. As we know, it is a close battle.
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Saiyan Master Vegeta Vice Captain
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Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 4:03 pm
I was seeing it as Flight speed Goku. Hand speed Superman. So what I was thinking while Goku would be able to move around faster. He would'nt be so fast that Superman wouldnt be able to hit him and vice verse in the reverse way. Meening although Superman could punch faster that doesnt meen Goku wouldnt be able to block/dodge and hit back.
Is creativity a factor? Because Superman uses his powers in a number of ways as you'll see in my post. If Goku can pull the Kamehameha off the instant he reappears or close to it yes. But from what I've seen in the cell Saga he has to wait until he re-appeares to say the final "HA!!" The moment he reappeard Super hearing would alert Superman to his preasance and then the Ki blast would have to hit him. While Goku is stronger at Close range Superman could hit Goku's arms from the side sending the blast into a mountain.
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