Welcome to Gaia! ::

Also notice that even though Alderaan, which was relatively peaceful, was obliterated, yet chandrillia, which openly defied the empire at every turn, was only taxed. Also notice how Mon Mothma's successor was even MORE outspoken than she.

Another comparison is that urban and industrialized planets never gave much rebellion, such as Garos IV, Kuat, and others, but relatively rural and open planets did, such as Krant, Chandrillia, Alderaan, Kashyyk, etc.

Which founding members, persay, were members of the CIS? Besides Bail Organa, I don't recall anyone else really outspoken for the CIS. And I think you missed my statement. I stated the period before IV and after III. The Clone wars are before that time.

Canna Omonda, Mon Mothma's successor, was EXECUTED by the Imperials.

Mon Mothma fled due to her being branded a traitor to the new order, or the Galactic Empire. When Canna filled her vacancy, Imperialists couldn't take chandrillia's constant brashing of the new order. The Emperor would not take Chandrilla's opposition, since he was arleady getting thorns in his a** by the Rebellion.

So, three ISDs dropped into orbit, and captured Omonda, and she was tortured into confessing false crimes against the empire, and sent for public execution by the festive new year celebrations, while the planet of Chandrilla was slapped with huge agricultural tariffs.

After that, little trouble came of Chandrila, mostly due to the fact the Empire stuck its boot down any time it could, and the tariffs were keeping the people in a near state of opression.

So really, Mon Mothma was labeled a traitor, and fled for her own life, not kicked off by her people. This is proven when years after the NR finally liberated Chandrila, she was accepted back to her homeworld.

It wasn't until the empire twisted the ears off Chandrila, targeting its only source of off-world income of agriculture, and due to its being a core world, it not having a chance to wrigle free like other outer rim worlds, that it finally quieted down, though many infringetns still hurt the imperials whenever they could, though the oppurtunities were far and few between.

I take my information of that last post directly from the guide to planets and moons.

I'd assume that if it is endorsed by lucas, that it is true. And because they specifically state she was tortured and made to confess false crimes, she was.

Unless, of course, you are saying that now anything that Lucas puts his seal of approval on is now false as well? Next the Battle of Yavin will actually occur over Ord Mantell?

You can't deny that fact, unless you're denying Star Wars itself.

True, but if that word is overused, then the imperial term of "treason" and "rebel" is overused just as much, if not moreso. So saying the Rebel Propaganda is lying is about as useful as saying that the Empire itself was not pushign some paperwork.

And just because you dont' agree with the author's point of view, doesn't necessarily mean that her torture was necessarily opinion. The fact still remains she did nothing except challenge the system. Of course, when someone goes against a nazi regime, we know they hush it up one way or another. Its just the way nazis, dictators, totalitarians, and the like enforce their will.

Of course, Han solo was tortured on Bespin, yet he comes out clean. And I garuntee you that that wasn't painless. Sort of like in Dune, where they have the knives that kill people by using their brain against them. Because they aren't "physically" beaten on the outside, that the limitation doesn't imply internally.

Ever think of that? I mean, whos to say otherwise?

I don't remember any visible injurys on han after torture. No red marks, nothing physical.

Of course, in the world of star wars, where bacta can fix things hundreds of times faster than normal, and who knows what drugs one can have, who's to say that they can't, in the case of leia, make an antidote?

Another thing to consider is that we don't know the passage of time exactly. Its not like they tortured, and then automatically bring her to Tarkin. The effects of the drug may have worn off? Hmmah?

Since the torture we can say is internal, it does not have to show external signs. They don't even have to have side effects, though there's a good chance that the Empire would not waste a budget on trying to find "humane" torture serums. But alas, side effects of internal torture don't have to last years, only long enough to last the interrogation. Such in KOTOR (you'll hate me for this one) you play around with the truth serum as long as you want. If he passes out, you just pop the antidote in, and try again in a couple of minutes, as if nothing happened.

So really, torture in the SW universe is a bit of a touchy subject, until someone comes up with an "essential guide to torture and punishment..."

As for the use of the word Rebel and traitor, Mothma's successor was not in fact supporting the rebellion. She was simply outspoken on the issue of teh Empire. Technically, though, the empire made any resistance to its rule considered "treason". So even if you said one thing against the empire, you probably were going to be hauled into court, beaten, if not killed. Sedition was definatly something the Empire did not want, and they made sure to stomp it out. Even refusing to help the Empire is treason. Just look at Owen and Beru. Because they did not know where luke was, they were fried. Simple doctrine. Are they traitors because of ignorance? According to the empire, they sure as hell are!

So a fried skeleton in the middle of a desert planet, killed by a blaster, with tracks from imperials, is a common thing, eh?

They were killed by the empire. In defending teh Empire, you automatically assume much more information which would in fact, convict the empire on more counts than just murder.

Get over it, man. The Empire is not a hippy tree-loving organization who never killed a single soul in the galaxy.

Now you're beginning to sound like an imperial propagandist. Hell, that last paragraph has so many inadaquacies to it its not even funny.

Yea, lukes a criminal. Hell, he was only going to join the imperial navy at the time his parents were fried. The Imperial navy recruits criminals that would harm them at any given moment all the time...

He wasn't a criminal at the time they died. AS I said, if you defend the Imperials did not commit 2nd degree murder, then you putthem into first degree murder, conspiracy, manslaughter, treason, and of course, conspiricay to destroy the empire.


Trust me, you have nothing on Beru and Lars.

1) They were not hiding a criminal. Luke had not committed any crime. The only crime on him that you could even attempt to pin on Luke was possession of stolen goods at best, which in fact, does not warrant a death penalty, especially since possession can be relinquished. Whoopie.

2) At this point and time, not even Vader knew he had a son or daughter. He knew he had children, but he didn't know who, where, or what they were. Otherwise one, the empire would have sought them out (being force users, very useful), and two, he wouldn't have tried to kill them. Need I remind you of ESB? At this point and time, kidnapping is a false accusation.

3) Hiding a criminal who killed thousands. Hmm... Old Ben. I dont' ever remember ever them HIDING ben. He HID himself. Everyone knew of 'old ben'. If the Lars' hid ben, then the creatures on dagobah should all die, cause they hid yoda.

4) Lying to the government? when did they lie. In none of the movies did they ever LIE to the government. Another false accusation.

They are as guilty as you are sympathetic to the jedi.

and for the last time, the Empire was based off Nazism. From George Lucas's mouth itself, he designed it to be the Nazi Empire. If you don't believe it, then its your own fault. But it is a nazisitic regime, whether you want to deny it or not. AS you said yourself,

"Your opinion does not overrule the policy of LA."

Luke is not a criminal at the time his parents were fried. You're taking a case indirection.

the son of a jedi, who happens to be darth vader. Meaning he's a fugitive. By that case alone, you condemn Vader to death as well. Period. Vader's a jedi. Otherwise Luke isn't a son of a jedi. Thus, either Vader dies, or Luke's clean. No proof to discredit that.

So what if vader didn't know his kid was alive? If he really cared about them in thee first place, he would have looked for them. There goes any crime of kidnapping, instead placing the blame on Vader for negligence, which negates the crime. The poor b*****d didn't care enough to look for them, and the poor b*****d got what he deserved for choosing ignorance. Defending him won't chance that aspect. It is called De Jour Possession. By legal law, Owen and Beru are his legal guardians, since his closest relative, Vader, is not capable of raising the child. Consult a lawbook if you want to read more on this.

He was a crazy old hermit. In fact, everyone else stated that too. Telling the truth is not lying. Omitting the truth isn't lying either. And knowing a criminal isn't necessarily make one a criminal, or I'd be dead by now with all of my cousins crimes, along with knowing a man who is a psychopath. Am I guilty of knowing him? no. Do I know where he is? yes. Does that mean I am to die? no. Point closed.

A lie of sorts. Again, omitting the truth is not lying. if they lied, they were guilty, but by being silent, they are only remaining neutral to the situation. Until they literally tell a lie, only then can you fully accuse them of lying. Need we post again?

Oh, and the last point, as I stated before, your opinion does not count. Thank Mr. Lucas for that. Even though it was supremely pro-human (name five non-humans that held a high office, is a good example, during palp's reign), and not to mention, very few women even had a high ranking job. Yet another thing good Mr. Lucas stated himself. So, in a blind attempt to whine about his presenting, it still has no effect negating the sustinence of what Lucas desires. You of all people should know that. You're not exempted from his rule, and neither am I. Trying to debate that is only self-denial.

Onward, to what this thread was really supposed to be for, now the debate is over. Maybe someone might actually have a useful suggestion for the guild.