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| Good news to you? |
| Yes, yes it IS good news! =D |
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75% |
[ 34 ] |
| Not really, I own the book. But good for everyone anyways! |
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22% |
[ 10 ] |
| NO. The book sucked and I hated it. |
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2% |
[ 1 ] |
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| Total Votes : 45 |
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 Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 1:22 pm
Quote: And I believe you're talking about the khanum (head honcho Persian woman). That women was just nuts. But what about the 'women everywhere who would have gladly sunk themselves in his shadow' thing? (Sorry that's not a direct quote. My book isn't with me.) It's mentioned repeatedly that SK's Erik is supposed to have a kind of innate charisma that makes him teh-sexxy. The Khanum is just pervy, but Luciana wants him from before she even knows who he is, and his own mother gets overwhelming dirty thoughts when listening to him sing. I'm sure there were others in that intermittant period, but as the Daroga obseves, Erik never realizes that he has this ability and so is unable to capitalize on it. He's so convinced that he's horrible(because his mother was never able to bring herself to treat him like she loved him, even though she realized later that she did) that he assumes every woman he meets will automatically be afraid of him before they even see his face. That's what I meant... When he sees the Unnamed Harem Virgin Chick he automatically assumes that she'll be terrified of him, and so he's angry and upset and behaves in a way that actually does terrify her. Essentially, he's setting himself up to fail and then takes that failure as justification that he was right in his initial assumptions. Whereas, if he had been all suave, sexy super-Phantom like he was normally, he probably would have scored. Does that make any sense at all?
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Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 5:05 pm
Makes perfect sense to me.
I'd build more on that, but I just got finished an all-day workshop and I'm le tired..
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Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 8:01 pm
PhantomoftheFox Quote: And I believe you're talking about the khanum (head honcho Persian woman). That women was just nuts. But what about the 'women everywhere who would have gladly sunk themselves in his shadow' thing? (Sorry that's not a direct quote. My book isn't with me.) It's mentioned repeatedly that SK's Erik is supposed to have a kind of innate charisma that makes him teh-sexxy. The Khanum is just pervy, but Luciana wants him from before she even knows who he is, and his own mother gets overwhelming dirty thoughts when listening to him sing. I'm sure there were others in that intermittant period, but as the Daroga obseves, Erik never realizes that he has this ability and so is unable to capitalize on it. He's so convinced that he's horrible(because his mother was never able to bring herself to treat him like she loved him, even though she realized later that she did) that he assumes every woman he meets will automatically be afraid of him before they even see his face. That's what I meant... When he sees the Unnamed Harem Virgin Chick he automatically assumes that she'll be terrified of him, and so he's angry and upset and behaves in a way that actually does terrify her. Essentially, he's setting himself up to fail and then takes that failure as justification that he was right in his initial assumptions. Whereas, if he had been all suave, sexy super-Phantom like he was normally, he probably would have scored. Does that make any sense at all? Wow...that's deep.
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Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 2:44 pm
*applauds* That's a wonderful observation PhantomoftheFox and I'm forced to agree (forced? it's not like you had me in a choke hold...) in fact it's amusing to see his sexuality develop...or not; I believe Kay described his almost boyishly innocent (in sexual realization and attitude) even in his older years. Which makes me giggle thinking of him as a rather "expierenced" murderer.
This attitude resigns of course once he continually lusts after Christine *cough* Don Juan*cough* and he realized what he really wanted to do with Christine, again I emphasize this is Kay's Erik stare
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Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 2:56 pm
Red_Death_Stalking *applauds* That's a wonderful observation PhantomoftheFox and I'm forced to agree (forced? it's not like you had me in a choke hold...) in fact it's amusing to see his sexuality develop...or not; I believe Kay described his almost boyishly innocent (in sexual realization and attitude) even in his older years. Which makes me giggle thinking of him as a rather "expierenced" murderer.
This attitude resigns of course once he continually lusts after Christine *cough* Don Juan*cough* and he realized what he really wanted to do with Christine, again I emphasize this is Kay's Erik stare So the woman basically contradicts herself. "Oh, Erik's so innocent--but he gets a boner everytime he looks at Christine."
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Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 9:27 pm
Utakan Red_Death_Stalking *applauds* That's a wonderful observation PhantomoftheFox and I'm forced to agree (forced? it's not like you had me in a choke hold...) in fact it's amusing to see his sexuality develop...or not; I believe Kay described his almost boyishly innocent (in sexual realization and attitude) even in his older years. Which makes me giggle thinking of him as a rather "expierenced" murderer.
This attitude resigns of course once he continually lusts after Christine *cough* Don Juan*cough* and he realized what he really wanted to do with Christine, again I emphasize this is Kay's Erik stare So the woman basically contradicts herself. "Oh, Erik's so innocent--but he gets a boner everytime he looks at Christine." I'm scared...*runs away screaming for Erik to save me*
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Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 10:15 pm
PhantomsAngelofMusic Utakan Red_Death_Stalking *applauds* That's a wonderful observation PhantomoftheFox and I'm forced to agree (forced? it's not like you had me in a choke hold...) in fact it's amusing to see his sexuality develop...or not; I believe Kay described his almost boyishly innocent (in sexual realization and attitude) even in his older years. Which makes me giggle thinking of him as a rather "expierenced" murderer.
This attitude resigns of course once he continually lusts after Christine *cough* Don Juan*cough* and he realized what he really wanted to do with Christine, again I emphasize this is Kay's Erik stare So the woman basically contradicts herself. "Oh, Erik's so innocent--but he gets a boner everytime he looks at Christine." I'm scared...*runs away screaming for Erik to save me* Of what? Me or Erik's Boner of Doom? I REALLY ought not be so blunt sometimes. I'll get myself in trouble. XD
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Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 7:20 am
xDDD Oh, of doom now is it? Isn't he special?
And he was like, 50, too... It's a joke on another board that Kay!Erik invented viagra.
But that's not what this thread is about! *ahem*
I don't know if he was really what you'd call innocent before he met Christine. He was probably horny as hell, but he repressed it because (and this is mostly due to the slave girl incident) he thought there was no chance he'd ever get laid, so why try? And devoting himself fully to his construction work and his music would be a lot easier when there was no specific woman he wanted that he could focus on. But after he found Christine it did become specific and that opened a whole pandora's box of dirty thoughts he'd been ignoring for most of his life. So he was innocent in a way, but I suppose I'm just specifying that it wasn't out of ignorance.
Plus, unless you count Luciana (which I think was the other crippling blow to his sexuality; the first girl he had a crush on, who saw his face and died), Christine is really his first love. Well, love is debatable in SK, but he thought he loved her, so we'll go witih that. So that's a whole lot more awkwardness right there.
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Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 7:32 am
PhantomoftheFox xDDD Oh, of doom now is it? Isn't he special? And he was like, 50, too... It's a joke on another board that Kay!Erik invented viagra. But that's not what this thread is about! *ahem* I don't know if he was really what you'd call innocent before he met Christine. He was probably horny as hell, but he repressed it because (and this is mostly due to the slave girl incident) he thought there was no chance he'd ever get laid, so why try? And devoting himself fully to his construction work and his music would be a lot easier when there was no specific woman he wanted that he could focus on. But after he found Christine it did become specific and that opened a whole pandora's box of dirty thoughts he'd been ignoring for most of his life. So he was innocent in a way, but I suppose I'm just specifying that it wasn't out of ignorance. Plus, unless you count Luciana (which I think was the other crippling blow to his sexuality; the first girl he had a crush on, who saw his face and died), Christine is really his first love. Well, love is debatable in SK, but he thought he loved her, so we'll go witih that. So that's a whole lot more awkwardness right there. Everything with Erik gets the annotation "of doom". Gotta give him his ego somewhere. XD That's really a viable point. Where are you getting all these good points? XD Is there a manual I keep passing up? Kidding. I believe there had to be a level of innocence or, in I guess some cases, ignorance to Erik. He never really had anyone to tell him what was normal for boys his age or whatnot and discovering that "magic" moment one day when you wake up isn't exactly going to leave you wise once you figure out why it's there. Luciana indeed was a crushing blow to his self-esteem more likely at the moment than Mr. Happy. He caused her death just because she wanted to see his face and with that, he probably repressed any urge to reach out and really see the world around him lest it happen again. Music is a medium in which you can channel your emotions. Erik took on music since it was, I guess by that time, second-nature in order to sway his thoughts and body towards something he could do without harm to himself instead of going out for Ye Ol' 2 Cent Hooker. And somewhere along the line, he probably did invent a springer. XD I mean c'mon. "Oh music is my life and woe is me--holy hell, who's the blonde with the great knockers?" Okay I need to stop. XD I'm being more perversely humorous than helpful.
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Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 1:48 pm
But the perverse humor is so entertaining! xD And... everything? I dunno. 'Erik's big toe of doom' lacks a certain appeal...
Erik's ignorance/innocence seems towards romance, not sex, just to be specific. (The latter is why God created Ye Victorian Porn, after all.) But you're right about him never being taught what was right. 'Sleep with me or die' is not the way to a woman's heart. At least, not last time I checked.
But that is part of what I dislike about SK. All of Erik's problems can be traced to the women in his life and he's portrayed as a victim in every instance.
Doesn't know right from wrong or proper human interaction? Madeleine.
Terrified to reach out or reveal himself? Luciana (And Javert, to a degree)
That drug habit and pesky streak of dementia? The Khanum
Completely convinced of his own undesireability? Anonymus Harem Girl.
And then Christine kills him.
It's so phanbrat-ish. Ev0l, ev0l women scarring poor, sweet, sexy, Erik and no one loves him or deserves him except me Ayesha.
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Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 5:36 pm
Oh c'mon. "Ph33r the Big Toe of DOOOOOMZ!" XD
And yet again, you are right. XD You're fun. And they had porn back then? I just thought they had orgies...
I think Kay did that to add the romanticism in. Not Romantic. Romanticism. And, romantic to a degree. Painfully so, I guess.
She wants to paint a picture of poor, pitiful Erik. But she's a Romance Novelist, so it has to involve women and relationships somewhere. Madeleine sets the stage for his self-hatred and world-loathing. Javert (though not female, I think we could tell) shows Erik how cruel the world is to someone imperfect. Luciana goes back a little to Madeleine's ending point, but with a twist since she liked him and he liked her. But she forced his face into the open and she died for it.
The khanum was a perverted woman. I think she started the bloodlust within him, or even just fed it, along with the opium. She wanted (not loved) Erik because he was hideous and she was sadistic.
The harem girl, you already said. And of course, the toppings, whipcream, and giant freaking cherry to this emo sundae is Christine.
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Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 11:23 am
^ All of which is funny, because there's no basis for any of it in Leroux. Not really. Erik was troubled, but not emo romance novel hero troubled.
And the Victorians had porn. Oh, what porn did they have. *dramatic gesture* Most of it involved lesbians and women of the theatre. Take that however you may. And you know that, lonely and repressed as he was, if there was porn to be had, Erik had it.
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Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 1:01 pm
PhantomoftheFox ^ All of which is funny, because there's no basis for any of it in Leroux. Not really. Erik was troubled, but not emo romance novel hero troubled. And the Victorians had porn. Oh, what porn did they have. *dramatic gesture* Most of it involved lesbians and women of the theatre. Take that however you may. And you know that, lonely and repressed as he was, if there was porn to be had, Erik had it. Andrew Lloyd Webber did his job in making Erik the ugliest emo this side of the millenia. Huh. I can see that with how they had their social statuses and all. I just never thought they had porn. XD And you know Erik had some. But I'm not quite sure he knew what to do with it.
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Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 2:58 pm
Utakan PhantomoftheFox ^ All of which is funny, because there's no basis for any of it in Leroux. Not really. Erik was troubled, but not emo romance novel hero troubled. And the Victorians had porn. Oh, what porn did they have. *dramatic gesture* Most of it involved lesbians and women of the theatre. Take that however you may. And you know that, lonely and repressed as he was, if there was porn to be had, Erik had it. Andrew Lloyd Webber did his job in making Erik the ugliest emo this side of the millenia. Huh. I can see that with how they had their social statuses and all. I just never thought they had porn. XD And you know Erik had some. But I'm not quite sure he knew what to do with it. Victorian lesbo porn...sign me up
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