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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 6:22 pm
I'm sorry, but in my opinion I would rather be dead than have to go through rape again. I would rather lose the ability to have happiness, my social group, the spirituality that I use than go through the mental turmiol a rape throws on me.
If I was told I'd either be raped or killed in the most painful way possible I would chose the death everytime.
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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 6:31 pm
You would make that choice though. No one else would make it for you. I wouldn't kill you because you could be or will be raped in the future. I'd let you do it, but I wouldn't force my views on you, just as I hope no one would force their views on me, especially in such a permanent way. After a few experiences, not as bad as what you went through but enough to do a bit of damage, I'd rather go through it again than die. If someone were to kill me so that I wouldn't have to, I'd be pretty pissed. Is it really okay to kill someone because you think they'd be better off dead, without giving them a chance?
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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 6:36 pm
Icemaiden made it seem like it was the worse possible thing. That's subjunctive to a person. Now with a person with Down's (if I was to have) I wouldn't abort. Tay Sachs or some diesease like that I would. I wouldn't want to watch my child suffer and know there was nothing that could be done for them as they die painfully and will be dead well before 10.
In my opinion that's selfish on the parents behalf just so they can say they have a child. To put it through that sort of pain.
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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 6:52 pm
Vivnox Icemaiden made it seem like it was the worse possible thing. That's subjunctive to a person. Now with a person with Down's (if I was to have) I wouldn't abort. Tay Sachs or some diesease like that I would. I wouldn't want to watch my child suffer and know there was nothing that could be done for them as they die painfully and will be dead well before 10. In my opinion that's selfish on the parents behalf just so they can say they have a child. To put it through that sort of pain. I agree with this sentiment to a certain degree. If you know your child is going to die within 24 hours of being born or some such thing, I do not find it too terribly wrong to abort to save your child suffering. Im not sure if I could support my wife aborting our son under these circumstances...but then again I havent had to make that decision. However, any sort of disease that is survivable...such as down syndrome and spinal bifida and so forth...I feel should not be the parents decision. The parents shouldnt decide to take the life of their son or daughter based on if they'll be "retarded" anymore than I should decide for my friend if I should take his life because hes retarded. If the child has a reasonable chance to live and be happy, the parents should stay out it. As far as calling the parents selfish...I do defintely disagree with that however. Maybe in certain circumstances the parents would be selfish to keep their child....but whos to say that aborting their child to avoid dealing with the complications of a sick baby wouldnt be selfish as well?
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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 7:08 pm
Oh, sorry. I read her comments as being in terms of abortion, not just in general, I didn't think about it much.
I agree...to a certain extent. I don't think it's selfish of a parent to have the child despite a disability like that because breakthroughs are made all the time. There's always a chance that your child will be able to live longer than it's predicted. I wouldn't call it selfless, either. There have been people born in circumstances like that who went on to lead happy lives, and some who went on to lead miserable ones. I don't see why infanticide isn't legal in that case, though, if abortion is. It's not like I like infanticide, but it's doing the same thing. It's killing a human to spare him or her the suffering.
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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 7:38 pm
Well with things like Tay Sachs you can get the information from genetics. But that is also one of the diseases that what happens happens (unless abnormalities have been reported) 100% of the time. But I do think that a person who gives birth to a child say with, as an example http://www.orpha.net/consor/cgi-bin/OC_Exp.php?Lng=GB&Expert=1414 Aagenaes syndrome: Cholestasis-lymphedema syndrome (CLS) was described in 6 different large families, mainly from Norway. They suffer severe neonatal cholestasis that usually lessens during early childhood and becomes episodic; they also develop chronic severe lymphedema. Patients may die in early childhood, mainly of bleeding because of vitamin K deficit. Others died of cirrhosis in later childhood,
and they'd rather not see the child suffer needlessly they should be allowed to have euthenasia.
But then again I also think a person should be legally allowed to kill themselves no matter their mental state and if they want to die but are physically incapable of killing themselve to have doctor assissted suicide.
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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 7:43 pm
Penguin Spoon: I only knew because earlier in this thread, before your wife joined the guild I think, Kate said something about you being "Broorel's husband," so I just figured that it would be highly unlikely of two different people using such a unique screenname, and both being highly active Pro-Lifers, one here and one in abort73. sweatdrop
I'm a member of Abort73, but I'm not active at all, and haven't visited the site in a long time.
Anyways though, Viv: I don't quite understand how you can say that it's "selfish" of the family to -not- abort a kid, even one who will die before the age of 10. For one thing, it's all a matter of opinion as to whether 'tis better to live a short life, or to never have lived at all, and for another, it's not like it's all roses to outlive your child.
Obviously it's your opinion that 'tis better to have not lived at all. Personally, I'd prefer to live to the age of 10. Even with an excrutiating death, I'd have lived first.
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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 7:48 pm
I.Am Penguin Spoon: I only knew because earlier in this thread, before your wife joined the guild I think, Kate said something about you being "Broorel's husband," so I just figured that it would be highly unlikely of two different people using such a unique screenname, and both being highly active Pro-Lifers, one here and one in abort73. sweatdrop I'm a member of Abort73, but I'm not active at all, and haven't visited the site in a long time. Anyways though, Viv: I don't quite understand how you can say that it's "selfish" of the family to -not- abort a kid, even one who will die before the age of 10. For one thing, it's all a matter of opinion as to whether 'tis better to live a short life, or to never have lived at all, and for another, it's not like it's all roses to outlive your child. Obviously it's your opinion that 'tis better to have not lived at all. Personally, I'd prefer to live to the age of 10. Even with an excrutiating death, I'd have lived first. Oh no problem...just suprised anyone would care enough to notice!
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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 9:13 pm
Quote: Idiots annoy me more then anything else in the world. More than I do even? Or do I fit into that category? AH! I can't figure out if I fit into that category, therefore I must be an idiot! But wait, I figured out that I fit into that category, so I must be smart! HA!
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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 9:27 pm
Vivnox I'm sorry, but in my opinion I would rather be dead than have to go through rape again. I would rather lose the ability to have happiness, my social group, the spirituality that I use than go through the mental turmiol a rape throws on me. If I was told I'd either be raped or killed in the most painful way possible I would chose the death everytime. I been molested before, still think death is worse. Why because, you can at least get help and try to move on where death, mmm.. you can't cause your dead. Your not the only one that been through things. I would only choose death if someone tried to make me their slave, I will not be anyones puppet or slave but that be the only time and I rather fight back and not just die.
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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 9:31 pm
lymelady Quote: Idiots annoy me more then anything else in the world. More than I do even? Or do I fit into that category? AH! I can't figure out if I fit into that category, therefore I must be an idiot! But wait, I figured out that I fit into that category, so I must be smart! HA! xd No idiot would even wonder if they're idiots. 3nodding Thus, you cannot be an idiot. Sorry. sad
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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 9:33 pm
Vivnox Icemaiden made it seem like it was the worse possible thing. That's subjunctive to a person. Now with a person with Down's (if I was to have) I wouldn't abort. Tay Sachs or some diesease like that I would. I wouldn't want to watch my child suffer and know there was nothing that could be done for them as they die painfully and will be dead well before 10. In my opinion that's selfish on the parents behalf just so they can say they have a child. To put it through that sort of pain. Depends, doctors been wrong many times before. They told one of my moms friends it would be better to abort cause something was wrong and he would die anyways. Well it's been a few years later, he many get sick easier but over all not in pain, he lived and is smart and doing well. Doctors arn't always right. They mainly make educated guesses but guesses arn't always right. Now if you know 100% then maybe but for me death is still worse (most cases) cause once your dead your dead. Maybe I've been through pain and got used to it, I'm in physical pain alot but I won't let in stop me.
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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 10:33 pm
I.Am lymelady Quote: Idiots annoy me more then anything else in the world. More than I do even? Or do I fit into that category? AH! I can't figure out if I fit into that category, therefore I must be an idiot! But wait, I figured out that I fit into that category, so I must be smart! HA! xd No idiot would even wonder if they're idiots. 3nodding Thus, you cannot be an idiot. Sorry. sad So that means I don't annoy you as much as idiots do? Hmm. I'll need to try harder... twisted icemaidenyukina, is your quest still going?
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Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 4:01 am
Lymelady! you got particle man stuck in my head! *shakes fist*
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Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 5:13 am
Broorel Lymelady! you got particle man stuck in my head! *shakes fist* She did that to me before. -_-
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