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Scalar Warfare

Ice-Cold Explorer

8,425 Points
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:14 am


themightyjello
Last thing I'm gonna bring up.

OutlawD One
The reflect used 10% of my bar for one hit of the hammer. I could have had him block by leaping back or just plain ol stepping in to put himself aligned with the staff portion instead of the mallet too, but i do get a block. it took concentration through the use of his ability points he was down almost a 3rd of his bar from that complete posting going out.. over a 1/4 for sure.

I want to raise a counterargument and a hypothetical situation.

Jecht's already got superhuman levels of strength et al. because he's got that superjuice in him. Let's say he walks in there and gets into a swordfight. Now in addition to all the normal options available to someone in that situation (block, dodge, evade, parry, distance) he can also just decide that by spending 10% of his bar he can negate a hit against him completely. That means in a swordfight he can ignore 10 hits against him completely, or just truck through an attack to get in close and start stabbing someone in the kidneys with a shiv because Jecht don't give a ********. Reflect reflect reflect. 10% per use? If each trade gives you a stab in the leg or the gut for 10% of your bar that's a trade anyone would take.

I have no idea what sort of powerset the Baron has over there swinging that rapier around but I'm willing to bet Reflect is something he would literally salivate over.


Yeah, I don't really relish the idea of fighting a person who can 'reflect' steel with an ordinary rapier.

Not that I couldn't do it... after all I've beaten a person completely immune to fire with a pure pyromancer before. It's just... un-necessarily difficult and a pain, esp if the fight were to go the same way it is going with Vintrict.
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 9:07 am


themightyjello
Last thing I'm gonna bring up.

OutlawD One
The reflect used 10% of my bar for one hit of the hammer. I could have had him block by leaping back or just plain ol stepping in to put himself aligned with the staff portion instead of the mallet too, but i do get a block. it took concentration through the use of his ability points he was down almost a 3rd of his bar from that complete posting going out.. over a 1/4 for sure.

I want to raise a counterargument and a hypothetical situation.

Jecht's already got superhuman levels of strength et al. because he's got that superjuice in him. Let's say he walks in there and gets into a swordfight. Now in addition to all the normal options available to someone in that situation (block, dodge, evade, parry, distance) he can also just decide that by spending 10% of his bar he can negate a hit against him completely. That means in a swordfight he can ignore 10 hits against him completely, or just truck through an attack to get in close and start stabbing someone in the kidneys with a shiv because Jecht don't give a ********. Reflect reflect reflect. 10% per use? If each trade gives you a stab in the leg or the gut for 10% of your bar that's a trade anyone would take.

I have no idea what sort of powerset the Baron has over there swinging that rapier around but I'm willing to bet Reflect is something he would literally salivate over.


Use th ability to think. The energy used in the reflect varies on the attack if he used a 6 post charge for example then it would have been a lot higher or smashed through and hit him or knocked him back and took a toll. Its not just 10% of his bar but to use 10% for a simple block isnt some outlandish especially when your opponent can swing a damn war hammer around like a small stick. After 3 swings which he could have done in no time at all id be out of a ******** of a lot of energy and soon wouldn't have any to fight so either way. Its something that is balanced. And that was a bad hypothetical. But you know his bar isn't infinite so if he uses it all blocking two combos he could have moved from he SOL with using his abilities for a while. And running in and reflecting if using it too block big whoop.....still dont mean said kidney stab you conjured would even go through. It could be deflected and such which means a complete waste of AP. You complain about that one thing but there are side effects too it and a downside. It can be trucked through if enough force is used and the energy cant counter balance on levels, he runs out energy in fact which is more than I can say for a opponent who draws power from an unlimited mysterious world. And the biggest thing of all......that doesn't mean he's going to use it on everything! Le gasp...... that would just be silly and boring. There is a balances system even to that so if thats your only gripe......its semi flat. Lastly that hammer swing move could be seen coming from a mile away it wasnt a sneak or fast by any means. If he is caught of guard then there is the possibility he couldn't even get the defensive ability off.

OutlawD One

Dapper Explorer


Cael Zero

PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 9:07 am


My character is pretty much swords only, no magic. So I've pretty much resigned myself to the fact that fights will go one of two ways: enemies spamming powers/magic at me and/or dodging/blocking all of my strikes to close the distance.

I wouldn't even blame anyone for it, either. It does make sense against a swordy. But I even make it a point not to go for lethal strikes, as much for IC reasons as OOC reasons. Nierro just wants to make his opponents bleed and dominate them for all to see and enjoy.

And since I'm sharing, his major weaknesses are Fire (and firearms), Silver, and Wolfsbane (doubt anyone has any of that). I think I covered that pretty well in my first fight (punishing non-lethal strikes, aversion to fire) so I consider it a win. If anyone uses any of this to metagame I don't really care. I'll do what I can to enjoy my fights with flashy displays of sword skillz that pay da billz.
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 9:39 am


I tried to back read..... I really did. but I..I...I just couldn't do it. cry

Darkest Silver

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OutlawD One

Dapper Explorer

PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 9:52 am


themightyjello


Jello, how many times have RPers been known to use a wall or shield of ice, or other things to block? Its no different other than what it is made of, in fact mine has a lower downside as in the fact that it has a 'break' technicality after one use. The ice shield can take multiple hits and not be remade or use anymore energy, the velocity barrier that I use(d), (and unfortunately named reflect and y'all ran away with the title) is basically good for one hit and each post it is active or used it takes more points to do, and those points vary. You're tying to call me out on something that has more faults than any other defense because it takes energy fairly and I don't have an unlimited supply of it at all times. The only reason it seems you have to complain about it is the name I used in my post….that and the issues you have with my post jump to something different every time. Seems like you're searching for counterarguments instead of just thinking about the pros and cons first

EDIT: The move is a barrier/shield. I stated in the post he used extra energy to make the shield stronger which would increase the bounce back, in order to try and hyperextend the limb, to lower the chance of him using to defend immediately. The break could have been a possible bonus if the upper arm was pinned it what would have happened…a similar thing happened to my knee. The extra bounce back is what would turn the block/barrier move into a hypothetical 'reflect'. Its not a "automatic boom you reflect and fly back or hurt yourself" move, when things hit solid forces, like a hammer against a wall depending on the density of the wall there will be bounce back… That was a really dense wall of sorts cause of the energy used. A fair amount to block a regular hammer strike would be about 5pts, the impact barrier had 10, which is double that and would double the effects of it being hit. I think that all makes sense.
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 10:03 am


[Cranks shoulders]

Typically how I see a "blocking" mechanic is:

-If I see the attack coming a long ways away, I can do a big block of some kind (including powers.)
-If the attack's not seen or coming in fast/short distance, at most I can parry it with something mobile if it's a lighter attack.
-Insta-blocks are horrible and kill my boner.

Yeah I've fought "Ice Lords" and I've fought guys who eat fire to get stronger and beat them. But it took me... undue amounts of effort to do so while they put in minimal effort at most and got years worth of effect.


Haelikor


Prophet


OutlawD One

Dapper Explorer

PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 10:12 am


Lord Haelstrom
[Cranks shoulders]

Typically how I see a "blocking" mechanic is:

-If I see the attack coming a long ways away, I can do a big block of some kind (including powers.)
-If the attack's not seen or coming in fast/short distance, at most I can parry it with something mobile if it's a lighter attack.
-Insta-blocks are horrible and kill my boner.

Yeah I've fought "Ice Lords" and I've fought guys who eat fire to get stronger and beat them. But it took me... undue amounts of effort to do so while they put in minimal effort at most and got years worth of effect.

And that's what happens at times, even with people with powers. I've beaten people with powers greater than mine as well, and lost to simpler attacks too.

Haelstrom that is exactly how I used it and what happened, and seems like a logical way of using a block mechanic, ability based or not. He was charging in from over 15ft away….thats ample time
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 10:23 am


Jello stated his issue was with the amount of attacks; Broke that down to show that it was only a defend move and two attacks.

Then said his issue was with the omote range/drill and the wrapping thing; Broke that down to show it was a "if this, then" statement which it was…it was just unfortunate for Vin that he made the wrong choice and would have gotten hit by it realistically. It didn't have to happen.

Now his issue is with the 'reflect'; Which isn't really a necessary reflect move as so much a barrier that he had ample time and hint to place, as well as information to gauge with.

He's been issue jumping, but all of my post has been true to character, fair, balanced, and understandable in the situation they were in, in the fight. Had I ******** up and got caught like Vin/Athena it would have just been my ******** up and it would suck IC but it would have to be eaten

OutlawD One

Dapper Explorer


OutlawD One

Dapper Explorer

PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 10:30 am


PS I've tried to post but its almost fruitless as everything I do from the position they are in, Vin and everyone else would only complain about besides placing him back on the ground gently, even though Vin walked into it. It wouldn't be true to character if he didn't slam him or something from this point. The counter Vin would have would be his last post, but due to timing of previous posts, there would be no way he was bound to Bojuka, and he damn sure wouldn't have use of his arms, so the next realistic step is going to look silly.
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 10:36 am


I wish I was around to comment on that "fight"

The Great Absolute

Omnipresent Consumer


Cael Zero

PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 10:48 am


OutlawD One
A fair amount to block a regular hammer strike would be about 5pts, the impact barrier had 10, which is double that and would double the effects of it being hit. I think that all makes sense.


So then he could insta-block not 10 but 20 hammer blows?

Jesus, son.

That must be Bojuka Style.
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 10:55 am


User Image - Blocked by "Display Image" Settings. Click to show.
Bojucka SUCK BALLS!!!


Did I do it right?

Zou Kraze

Unsealed Aggressor



themightyjello


Dapper Elocutionist

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 11:02 am


OutlawD One
He's been issue jumping

Because we're having a discussion, not an argument. Not once have I said "this is bullshit, you should be ashamed and change it", I'm asking you questions about how your abilities work and pointing out potential problems. I'm also directly comparing your post against Athena's post in various ways because apparently there needed to be a judge call to have it rescinded for a reason I still can't quite understand.



Now, he had ample time to know an attack was coming that's for sure. I'd have no issue with the ability as you describe it in the OOC. The problem is that when you described it in your post it FUNCTIONALLY acted completely different because the (lack of) description given to it. It was an instantaneous reflex block/reflect in response to Athena's attack, because you did not write anything about preparation, set-up, or drawbacks to its use. You only said "the attack bounces off, -10 points".

Narratively, it is a passive auto-block because it wasn't described in any way other than (paraphrased) "the attack is intercepted ba-ba-boom baby".
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 11:03 am


Cael 0x
OutlawD One
A fair amount to block a regular hammer strike would be about 5pts, the impact barrier had 10, which is double that and would double the effects of it being hit. I think that all makes sense.


So then he could insta-block not 10 but 20 hammer blows?

Jesus, son.

That must be Bojuka Style.

if they were all charge from 20 ft , be obvious and not add any sort of boost to thEn with ALL of his bar going to it yes but that can be said of anyone with certain abilities but the fact is no one is going to use them like that so dont be a douche. Vin ******** up with the timing and a dumb inside the box reaction and thats his fault. And a hammer swing is not hard to block at all so thats a far reaching example. If he used his abilities to boost it or charged then it could have been 20pts or whatever number. Its not like I said oh I use 10 points and thus shield is good for 7 hits dur derp gerpy dur. And yes that is bojuka style.....intelligent and effective actions that run along with the right timing of a fight

OutlawD One

Dapper Explorer


OutlawD One

Dapper Explorer

PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 11:04 am


The Great Absolute
I wish I was around to comment on that "fight"

Go right ahead whats stopping ya
Reply
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