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Whats your opinion? |
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Total Votes : 70 |
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Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 12:24 pm
Silent Expressor After reading through some of the posts it looks like I have to make my original argument yet again All right then, allow me to ask you something: do you perchance watch television—aside from the 700 Club, that is? Because it's absolutely chuck full of sexual immorality, debauchery, hatred, discord, rage, selfishness, factitiousness and drunkeness. If there's anything that has the appearances of evil, it's prime-time T.V. Or is T.V. exempt because it's so mind-destroying and vegetative that it leaves one's brain too bloody paralyzed for Satan to even bother attacking? Oh those blasted books! They'll lead us down the path of destruction yet.
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Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 10:13 pm
Tangled Up In Blue Silent Expressor I didnt say that at all. Macbeth happens to be a very well written play. Harry Potter on the other hand is getting closer and closer to actual witchcraft its rediculous. As I said before I have people who grew up in a Witchcraft "cultic" enviorment in my church, and even would have inherited some "powers" because of their lineage and they are saying that Harry Potter is dangerously close to the real thing. Now if people who grew up and their whole mind set was witchcraft, and they became a christian, wouldnt they know how close to reality it actually was. And what, exactly, is 'actual witchcraft'? Allow me to fill you in on a little secret: none of the powers, potions, spells, locations, people, animals, minerals, or vegetables described in the Harry Potter series exist in reality. They are made up, fictitious, imaginary flights of fancy; there is nothing 'actual' about them. Even children who read Harry Potter and then attempt to replicate any of the magic contained therein ought to have the empirical sense to realize that it's all just made up. And as to your ex-cultic friends, what sort of environment did they grow up in, exactly? Most 'witchcraft' in this day and age involves a bunch of New Agers standing around in a field at night invoking an earth god(ess) and dancing about like a bunch of loonies. It certainly doesn't have any parallels in Harry Potter. Yeah your right Harry Potter is filled with fiction but its got its realities too. And most witchcraft in this day and age is as you said but there is still that small percentage that are still actual witchcraft
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Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 10:28 pm
Silent Expressor Quote: 1 Thessalonians 5:22 Abstain from all appearance of evil This verse tells you to avoid the appearance of that evil. So in reading Harry Potter you are not avoiding the appearance, you are allowing your mind to be open to the devils attacks, because its "fantasy and not real" So.... what? No reading The Bible?
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Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 10:37 pm
Silent Expressor I didnt say that at all. Macbeth happens to be a very well written play. Harry Potter on the other hand is getting closer and closer to actual witchcraft its rediculous. Ah, so it's because it's well written that Macbeth is okay. Well, you got me there because Harry Potter is poorly written. But hey, let's not stop there! If we can judge Macbeth's character by it's compositional value, then let's do it to all things. Ever read Numbers? Incredibly boring, so it must be a sin! Yes, scratch the book of numbers. Now, hows about Leviticus? All those rules just put me to sleep! Where's the dialogue? So, that one's out. Now, on to Matthew! All those miracles and talking is totally not engaging! and, really, what's up with that whole ressurection thing? I mean, totally saw that coming. Well, I guess it's a sin to read that too. What? You like Matthew? And Numbers? And, what? The whole Bible? Tough. You're the one who opened this up to subjectively deciding what is 'good' and 'well-written' and what is 'bad' and 'poorly-written'.
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Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 11:13 am
Cometh The Inquisitor Silent Expressor Quote: 1 Thessalonians 5:22 Abstain from all appearance of evil This verse tells you to avoid the appearance of that evil. So in reading Harry Potter you are not avoiding the appearance, you are allowing your mind to be open to the devils attacks, because its "fantasy and not real" So.... what? No reading The Bible? No The Bible presents witchcraft as evil, not as something good. Since when did the Bible have any kind of fantasy aspect to it? Last I checked All of the Bible is God Breathed and real. and as far as that verse goes it was permissable then to have concubines now its not. Look at king Soloman he had how many wives and almost double the amount of Concubines?
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Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 11:20 am
Cometh The Inquisitor Silent Expressor I didnt say that at all. Macbeth happens to be a very well written play. Harry Potter on the other hand is getting closer and closer to actual witchcraft its rediculous. Ah, so it's because it's well written that Macbeth is okay. Well, you got me there because Harry Potter is poorly written. But hey, let's not stop there! If we can judge Macbeth's character by it's compositional value, then let's do it to all things. Ever read Numbers? Incredibly boring, so it must be a sin! Yes, scratch the book of numbers. Now, hows about Leviticus? All those rules just put me to sleep! Where's the dialogue? So, that one's out. Now, on to Matthew! All those miracles and talking is totally not engaging! and, really, what's up with that whole ressurection thing? I mean, totally saw that coming. Well, I guess it's a sin to read that too. What? You like Matthew? And Numbers? And, what? The whole Bible? Tough. You're the one who opened this up to subjectively deciding what is 'good' and 'well-written' and what is 'bad' and 'poorly-written'. Ok the Play is a well written shakespearean play that appealed to the people of the day who believed that witches were EVIL and whom many people were afraid of. Harry Potter is completally different, It shows Witches and Wizards/Warlocks as GOOD Which if you would read the verses that I've posted over and over and over again the Bible tells us that they are evil and it is an act of the sinful nature to participate in that evil. It also tells you to avoid the appearance of that evil, which harry potter is an appearance of....(unless im mistaken and Harry potter is not about witches and wizards going to some stupid school. )
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Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 6:04 pm
Silent Expressor No The Bible presents witchcraft as evil, not as something good. Since when did the Bible have any kind of fantasy aspect to it? Last I checked All of the Bible is God Breathed and real. In the story I posted, there was basically no condemnation of the acts that occoured. Only a single line about how the world was shocked and, considering the rest of The Bible's talking about the morality of the world, that's not saying much. Quote: and as far as that verse goes it was permissable then to have concubines now its not. Look at king Soloman he had how many wives and almost double the amount of Concubines? And King Solomon had his kingdom taken away by God for his transgression. Besides, since when has what the world declared to be okay ever mattered to Christ? Last I checked, He also has a thing about adultry and lust, so is that okay because the world says so?
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Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 6:06 pm
Silent Expressor Ok the Play is a well written shakespearean play that appealed to the people of the day who believed that witches were EVIL and whom many people were afraid of. Harry Potter is completally different, It shows Witches and Wizards/Warlocks as GOOD. Regardless, they do show up, still making it the 'appearance of evil' as you would have us believe. Quote: Which if you would read the verses that I've posted over and over and over again the Bible tells us that they are evil and it is an act of the sinful nature to participate in that evil. It also tells you to avoid the appearance of that evil, which harry potter is an appearance of....(unless im mistaken and Harry potter is not about witches and wizards going to some stupid school. ) No one here has disagreed with you that the Bible bans witchcraft. I even think that a few of us have even agreed with you on that point. However, Harry Potter is not witchcraft. It is a simple story with the thematic element of witches.
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Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 8:45 pm
Cometh The Inquisitor Silent Expressor Ok the Play is a well written shakespearean play that appealed to the people of the day who believed that witches were EVIL and whom many people were afraid of. Harry Potter is completally different, It shows Witches and Wizards/Warlocks as GOOD. Regardless, they do show up, still making it the 'appearance of evil' as you would have us believe. Quote: Which if you would read the verses that I've posted over and over and over again the Bible tells us that they are evil and it is an act of the sinful nature to participate in that evil. It also tells you to avoid the appearance of that evil, which harry potter is an appearance of....(unless im mistaken and Harry potter is not about witches and wizards going to some stupid school. ) No one here has disagreed with you that the Bible bans witchcraft. I even think that a few of us have even agreed with you on that point. However, Harry Potter is not witchcraft. It is a simple story with the thematic element of witches. A simple thematic elemet of witches.....witches practice witchcraft....right? But on what your saying about macbeth, yes it does have the issue of witches, im not denying that at all....but macbeth is 1st not a long drawn out series about how witches go and find their powers and become more powerful, it does not have this huge underlying message that witchcraft is acceptable, and Macbeth actually calls them evil, or foul..... Macbeth Fair is Foul and Foul is Fair I think this quote although spoken by the witches is a great example of Harry Potter, because so many people see it as a great book and what they dont see is how it is effecting their lives, they dont see the foul undertow of it.
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Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 12:41 am
Silent Expressor A simple thematic elemet of witches.....witches practice witchcraft....right? But on what your saying about macbeth, yes it does have the issue of witches, im not denying that at all....but macbeth is 1st not a long drawn out series about how witches go and find their powers and become more powerful, So it's how often these witches show up, is it? That's rather subjective, don't you think? Quote: it does not have this huge underlying message that witchcraft is acceptable, Ever read C.S. Lewis (specifically, the Chronicles of Narnia series or the Screwtape letters)? Those books have wizards, magic, and even a demon protagonist, and yet I doubt that even you would condemn them as evil. Quote: Macbeth Fair is Foul and Foul is Fair I think this quote although spoken by the witches is a great example of Harry Potter, because so many people see it as a great book and what they dont see is how it is effecting their lives, they dont see the foul undertow of it. And just how pray tell, is Harry Potter affecting people's lives?
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Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 7:20 pm
Quote: So it's how often these witches show up, is it? That's rather subjective, don't you think? I didnt say that its how often they show up, but they dont promote the idea of witches, Macbeth even calls them foul (or evil) Quote: Ever read C.S. Lewis (specifically, the Chronicles of Narnia series or the Screwtape letters)? Those books have wizards, magic, and even a demon protagonist, and yet I doubt that even you would condemn them as evil . Yes I have read the Chronicles of Narnia, but not the other. Yes they have wizards and magic and they have demons in them, but C.S. Lewis, at least with the white witch and her followers, shows that witchcraft is evil. He dosnt do such a great job with saying that the magician is evil and I can see where it could be opposed as being a bad book. I honestly believe thought that the C.S. Lewis series is a Christian Allegory(sp), and yes it has its problems but what book dosnt. But unlike the harry potter series it doesnt call every one of its books witches and wizards. I admit that the books has their issues and I would for those who have had problems with witchcraft to steer clear of them. But overall they are books that teach Christianity.
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Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 7:37 pm
good God people, chill. it's just a freaking fiction. unless you're delusional or stupid, it shouldn't shake your faith. hell, read some george carlin. it'll put hair on your chest.
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Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 8:01 pm
Silent Expressor I didnt say that its how often they show up, but they dont promote the idea of witches, Macbeth even calls them foul (or evil) But they still appear. Quote: Yes I have read the Chronicles of Narnia, but not the other. Yes they have wizards and magic and they have demons in them, but C.S. Lewis, at least with the white witch and her followers, shows that witchcraft is evil. There are alot of good wzards and witches in Narnia. Aslan being one of them. Oh yes, the main diety of Narnia weilds magic. Quote: He dosnt do such a great job with saying that the magician is evil and I can see where it could be opposed as being a bad book. And The Bible doesn't do much of a job to chatise the Jebusites. Gonna say the Bible is evil too? Quote: I honestly believe thought that the C.S. Lewis series is a Christian Allegory(sp), Yes, it is. dictionary.com n. pl. al·le·go·ries 1. 1. The representation of abstract ideas or principles by characters, figures, or events in narrative, dramatic, or pictorial form. 2. A story, picture, or play employing such representation. John Bunyan's Pilgrim's Progress and Herman Melville's Moby d**k are allegories. 2. A symbolic representation: The blindfolded figure with scales is an allegory of justice. Emphasis added. The fact that an allegory has some fictional elements (schools of wizards, alternate worlds, or even mickey mouse) in no way means that the allegory itself is bad. dictionary.com (fkshn) n. 1. 1. An imaginative creation or a pretense that does not represent actuality but has been invented. 2. The act of inventing such a creation or pretense. 2. A lie. 3. 1. A literary work whose content is produced by the imagination and is not necessarily based on fact. 2. The category of literature comprising works of this kind, including novels and short stories. 4. Law. Something untrue that is intentionally represented as true by the narrator. Fiction. Not real. Be it wizardry, or talking animals or even different moralities, fiction is false. Here, let me ask you a question (and yes, I am getting somewhere). What do you feel about polygamy? Quote: and yes it has its problems but what book dosnt. But unlike the harry potter series it doesnt call every one of its books witches and wizards. The fact that many of the main characters are wizards and witches is no different than any character being a wizard. Quote: I admit that the books has their issues and I would for those who have had problems with witchcraft to steer clear of them. But overall they are books that teach Christianity. So it's the 'overall' effect that matters? Isn't that dangerously close to 'The Ends Justify The Means'?
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Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 9:04 am
Yes they appear, so if you have strong convictions about Witchcraft as I do steer clear of this play as well. Quote: There are alot of good wzards and witches in Narnia. Aslan being one of them. Oh yes, the main diety of Narnia weilds magic. Ok so he wields "magic", they never really call him a wizard though. The magic that aslan has is in some way supposed to represent God's power Quote: And The Bible doesn't do much of a job to chatise the Jebusites. Gonna say the Bible is evil too? No...I'm sure the writers had reasons to th chastise them I think that's the second thing we've agreed on in this whole debate Quote: Fiction. Not real. Be it wizardry, or talking animals or even different moralities, fiction is false. Here, let me ask you a question (and yes, I am getting somewhere). What do you feel about polygamy? Yes I understand what fiction is, but I still believe strongly that the Harry Potter series presents some problems. Polygamy is the more than one spouse if im not mistaken? I believe that polygamy is wrong... Quote: So it's the 'overall' effect that matters? Isn't that dangerously close to 'The Ends Justify The Means'? I guess it would be
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Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 9:21 am
again, chill. it's a fiction. if it shakes your faith, it means you're not well-rooted in the first place.
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