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I stated elsewhere that vegetarianism is not requirement in Buddhadharma. But when one does things solely because they enjoy them, then they are feeding the cycle of craving that keeps them bound to samsara.

I was raised on meat. My grandfather raised cattle, and I spent several years with him on his farm. He also hunted and fished, and some of my fondest memories of him are of us together fishing. However, there is NO nutrient in meat that cannot be found in a non meat food. Humans CAN eat and digest meat, but it is not a requirement for human existence, especially for those of us in the industrialized, developed world. I have been vegan for 20 years with no ill effect. My grandfather ate meat every day, usually 3 times a day, and still suffered the forms of anemia (both iron and B12 deficiencies) that I'm "supposed" to get from not eating animal products.

i can see that you won't accept the idea that i am a loving person or that i respect life the way i do. you have a very obvious hatred of killing things, and refuse to believe in the sentience or soul of plantlife. i won't bother debating this any longer, i respectfully ask that we agree to disagree.

but i do need to say this. i don't eat meat just for enjoyment. i have been raised mostly vegetarian, with only poultry as a meat source. even then, i found i could not stomach most of it (i personally disliked the flavour, and my body seeme dto reject too much of it). i would get most of my protein from nuts and beans and spinach.

but living like that for 17 years was not healthy for me. i have a very rapid metabolism (or leastways i did, before i became anorexic). the food i ate was not enough for my body, but my appetite could not support the amounts i needed from a vegetarian diet. also, i have no driver's liscence, so i tend to have to walk everywhere, using alot of energy, and i also am a very busy and active man, rarely resting. lean meat like turkey or chicken is not enough for me, my body rejects most seafood, and i cannot get enough protein out of vegetables to support my cell-growth. i have been litterally deteriorating slowly my whole life. i only weigh 118 lbs, and i am losing between 2 and 10 pounds each month, depending on how much food i am able to find.

i have very little muscle, especialy in my upper body. i also am damn near fatless. i am lucky i am not diabetic. it's a ******** miracle in fact! i truely would be dead in a matter of months by this point if i havn't been eating the occaisional beef burger or steak in the past 3 years.

i have actually passed out from lack of nutrition before, on a number of occaisions. my sensitive pallet has made it hard for me to eat alot of the same types of food at a time, and this caused my stomach to shrink. my appetite followed, and i have been unable to even stomach enough food on a vegetarian diet to support myself. i became anorexic because of it, and that has only made the problem 10 times worse.

i truely cannot survive as a vegetarian. i want to live. and in order to do that, i need to eat meat. i feel compassion for the animals i kill, or that i buy already dead, and for the families they may have had, parents, mates, offspring... but i have loved ones as well who would be sad if i died. i have children i need to take care of. i can't do that if i let myself die so that some cow or dear or eel i have never been aquainted with can live.

in all thinsg there is a balance of life and death and rebirth. there is a food-chain, and an ecosystem. a perfect biorythm. in order to live, everything must kill. you can only have life by taking it from someone else. but the spirit lives on forever. we are all connected, and there is not a damn thing anyone can do to prevent the constant cycle of life, death and rebirth. i know it's rough, but it's the way of things. that's what life is.

I keep hearing about how at least some people simply must eat meat in order to survive. I challenge any one with this view to show me ONE vital nutrient in meat that cannot be found in a non meat source.

No, but it will cease you being a cause for some of it, which was all I was getting at. 3nodding

And the 'vital nutrients not in meat' isn't the problem; for some reason, some folks just have an organic failure to thrive problem when put on a diet that does not have at least some meat in it. They can try to take in plant sources of said nutrients, and their bodies just don't process them properly. Even doctors are baffled as to why (the one treating the girl I was looking after literally had no answer for her as to why it was the case), but failure to thrive is like that - confusing, and often looks like it shouldn't be the case, but it is.

From Paticcasamuppada - Dependent Origination (a core teaching of Buddhadharma)

"...Dependent on feeling (which includes enjoyment and desire) arises craving. Dependent on craving arises clinging. Dependent on clinging arises becoming. Dependent on becoming arises birth. Dependent on birth arise aging and death and sorrow, lamentation, pain, grief and despair..."

So you see, desire leads to craving, etc.

What the human body does with protein is break it down into it's individual amino acids. It then uses those amino acids as needed. The bottom line is, once broken down, those amino acids are exactly the same, regardless of whether they came from a cheeseburger, a block of tofu, a bowl of beans and rice or a spoonful of chlorella, there is no chemical or structural difference.

Many people experience a "detox" period right after ceasing eating meat. They may feel a bit tired for a few weeks, but it almost always passes once the body adjusts to to the new diet. But any one who has a B12 deficiency within a month of ceasing eating meat has some other health problem. B12 is simply not depleted from the body that fast in normal, health people. And eating meat really isn't addresing the problem, but merely treating the symptom.

People who have an addiction crave what they are addicted to. The Buddha taught that desire and craving are the reason for our suffering. So it's really simple, as long as one continues to be a slave to desire and craving, they will suffer. if one wishes to end their suffering, they must end desire and craving. Nothing judgmental about it, just the most basic teachings of the Buddha.

Who taught you THAT? May I suggest you take a very hard look at the teaching of Dependent Origination and the Four Noble Truths. Quite simply, desire leads to the very same attachment, cravings and addiction you say we should not give in to. If we keep giving in to desire, we keep feeding the source of craving and attachment, so how do you expect to be rid of it?

Meeting the body's needs in regards to nourishment and it's other requirements needn't be an exercise in giving in to desire. The question is "Are you eating to live, or living to eat?" Two VERY different things.

Most Zen centers begin formal meals with a gatha, beginning "72 Labors brought us this food, we should know how it comes to us." Might I suggest you get your teacher's version of the gatha, and recite and reflect on it prior to each meal. It really will change the way you look at food, eating, and your entire practice.