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 Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 5:29 pm
Shoujo Phoenix Again, it doesn't really specify anything about personal artwork. Why can we view these masterpieces in public schools (like in books or slides) when the people showing them are not the artists? It isn't my work...I'm just showing it. Isn't that the same thing? About the whole real people bit...well, look at Kill Bill. They animated the sequence with all the violence and killing etc etc. I am pretty sure if it were that violent and made all real-like, they'd probably have to up the rating to NC-17. That's according to a couple of friends...but it makes sense. So perhaps there's something about animated work that is less graphic simply because we know it is fake. But perhaps I shouldn't be judge to that. Does not specify but implies as that's what you're posting. "Artistic creativity" would only be implimented for two reasons, the first being that you drew it yourself and are seeking criticism or pats on the back. The other being that it's already an acknowledged piece of art that contain bits of nudity, but are still open to the general public (children included) due to their artistic brilliance. Why should exceptions be made otherwise? And do recall, it's exceptions we're talking about as in the things that do get through are exceptions due to Artistic Creativity. Exceptions do not conform to rules, as that is the nature of an exception. How can we view them in school? Because they are important parts of our history. And no, it's not the samething as public schools are run by government mandates which state what is and should be learned. Brilliant pieces of art are displayed and showcased so that we can learn a bit about them or take a glimpse into the past. Posting an image as you did does neither or those, and this is not a school setting, this is a forum setting, where anybody can come across pornography, post it, and somebody under 13 could see it. Remember, what is shown in schools is very heavily restricted and I believe on art classes display anything with nudity, but said nudity is done so in an manner to display certain aspects of artistic style. Sure, you can make a case as to how an image from Playboy is artistic, but let's face it, you didn't make it, and it's only intent is to cause sexual arousal. Why should artistic creativity be applied to that image? Similarly, if you found an image of a naked anime character and posted it on the forums it'd be removed for the exact same reasons. Personal perception drives what is and is not graphic/acceptable/whatever. And your example doesn't work as the rest of Kill Bill is just as graphic, or are you forgetting the Crazy 88 versus Bride fight? The reasoning is which Kill Bill itself isn't NC-17 is most likely attributed to the fact that it's incredibly violent, but that violence is done so in a fictional manner (pressurized blood and the like). In addition, outside of the violence and minor cursing, the movie doesn't do anything else to garner a higher rating.
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Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 5:37 pm
takako_tenshi Shoujo Phoenix My point...both are explicit. In my opinion, violence (especially animated violence) has become much more socially acceptable than animated nudity, though. To me, they're entirely different matters. For example, I am comfortable showing my 12-year-old sister blood and gore because I trust her judgement as far as her not wanting to massacre after seeing it. But I would never show her any nudity, animated or not, because of the bad influence/effects it might have on her. After taking human sexuality (which is probably why my opinion on this is so liberal) I think the earlier the better. I think it's something that shouldn't be held as being so taboo to society. Society comes to terms with things slowly and at different times. Take homosexuality for example. Thousands of years ago, it was completely accepted. The world hit the time of Christianity, where everything became sinful. We finally molded out of that mindset, stearing towards a more open-minded society. Slowly. 50 years ago, violence/nudity of ANY sort was considered beyond R. Look at it then...look at it now. They show violence and partial nudity on TELEVISION. Perhaps violence more so than nudity...but look at the show on FX, n**/Tuck. What the hell!? There are full on disgusting surgery scenes that are extremely graphic and there are full on SEX scenes. ON TV...basic cable. So, perhaps each person has their own perspective of what exactly the PG-13 line constitutes. They have to beep out words like ********, s**t, and ****** in PG-13 situations...but those words are allowed on Gaia. So where is the line drawn? Why don't we get in trouble for using those R-rated words on the site, but get in trouble for partial nudity that, in my own opinion, isn't extremely horrible? Why is it we can talk about sex and S&M and *****, etc...but not show "tasteful" pictures? Perhaps the TOS or guidelines shouldn't be as ambiguous as they are now. Maybe there should be specifics in there that clarify what would be tasteful or not. Or artistic...whatever.
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Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 5:40 pm
Everyone here is forgetting that this entire debate doesn't mean anything unless Lanzer and the NTSC or whoever all agree one way or the other. Until that happens, things stay the way they are, which means it was still incorrect to post the image.
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Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 5:43 pm
Shoujo Phoenix After taking human sexuality (which is probably why my opinion on this is so liberal) I think the earlier the better. I think it's something that shouldn't be held as being so taboo to society. Society comes to terms with things slowly and at different times. Take homosexuality for example. Thousands of years ago, it was completely accepted. The world hit the time of Christianity, where everything became sinful. We finally molded out of that mindset, stearing towards a more open-minded society. Slowly. 50 years ago, violence/nudity of ANY sort was considered beyond R. Look at it then...look at it now. They show violence and partial nudity on TELEVISION. Perhaps violence more so than nudity...but look at the show on FX, n**/Tuck. What the hell!? There are full on disgusting surgery scenes that are extremely graphic and there are full on SEX scenes. ON TV...basic cable. So, perhaps each person has their own perspective of what exactly the PG-13 line constitutes. They have to beep out words like ********, s**t, and ****** in PG-13 situations...but those words are allowed on Gaia. So where is the line drawn? Why don't we get in trouble for using those R-rated words on the site, but get in trouble for partial nudity that, in my own opinion, isn't extremely horrible? Why is it we can talk about sex and S&M and *****, etc...but not show "tasteful" pictures? Perhaps the TOS or guidelines shouldn't be as ambiguous as they are now. Maybe there should be specifics in there that clarify what would be tasteful or not. Or artistic...whatever. Because no matter what one person's beliefs are, a bunch of people out there might be opposed to the idea of nudity but accepting of bad language and such. And talking/discussing/joking about sex and that sort of thing are a lot different than actually demonstrating it by showing an explicit picture... Meh. I'm sick of talking about this.
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Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 5:47 pm
Well...whatever. I lose. ******** it. It's fighting an unnecessary uphill battle. I am sorry my opinions and socially liberal ideals aren't in sync with your's. Sorry I posted such a bad picture. I won't do it again. Forgive me. Etc etc. Perhaps my ideas about certain things are too abstract for people to understand (which I completely understand...I admit I am completely desensitized and probably way more liberal than today's society). So I apologize for causing this s**t. Okay. I am leaving. I have to read.
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Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 5:50 pm
Gaia keeps dying on me... I need more hobbies.
The mood's always sick to me after we have a debate/discussion thingy...
Or is it just that I can't handle it? Maybe I can't. sweatdrop
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Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 5:55 pm
It's kind of lonely that I only have you guys and my cousin while I'm here. I miss home...
-shrinks away into a corner-
PISTACHIO PUDDING!
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Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 6:12 pm
Shoujo Phoenix Well...whatever. I lose. ******** it. It's fighting an unnecessary uphill battle. I am sorry my opinions and socially liberal ideals aren't in sync with your's. Sorry I posted such a bad picture. I won't do it again. Forgive me. Etc etc. Perhaps my ideas about certain things are too abstract for people to understand (which I completely understand...I admit I am completely desensitized and probably way more liberal than today's society). So I apologize for causing this s**t. Okay. I am leaving. I have to read. This isn't an attack on you goddammit. There are certain things which I disagree with concerning the rules, TOS, and all that jazz but they exist for a reason, and whether we agree with the nature of them or not is besides the point. We all agreed to the TOS hence we are all subject to it even if our own views do not coincide with it. I just enforce the thing, alright?
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Streamjumper Vice Captain
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Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 6:37 pm
Cynder Streamjumper I just wish they really counted as face or eye items rather than hats... I love both of em, but can't be a bunny ninja. And woe to all the fox people who need to take off their ears to wear the mask. Actually, the anbu masks appear to be some sort of eye/face item. You can wear them with ears. Because they altered them to be able to after the outcry.
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Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 6:40 pm
Streamjumper Cynder Streamjumper I just wish they really counted as face or eye items rather than hats... I love both of em, but can't be a bunny ninja. And woe to all the fox people who need to take off their ears to wear the mask. Actually, the anbu masks appear to be some sort of eye/face item. You can wear them with ears. Because they altered them to be able to after the outcry. Yeah, except putting them on now enables you to become a big red X after saving. Like us. sweatdrop
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Streamjumper Vice Captain
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Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 6:53 pm
takako_tenshi Streamjumper Cynder Streamjumper I just wish they really counted as face or eye items rather than hats... I love both of em, but can't be a bunny ninja. And woe to all the fox people who need to take off their ears to wear the mask. Actually, the anbu masks appear to be some sort of eye/face item. You can wear them with ears. Because they altered them to be able to after the outcry. Yeah, except putting them on now enables you to become a big red X after saving. Like us. sweatdrop Which is annoying since I just dropped a chunk of gold on getting the items to make me an Anbu interrogator like that huge dude who gave the exams.
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Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 7:00 pm
Streamjumper Which is annoying since I just dropped a chunk of gold on getting the items to make me an Anbu interrogator like that huge dude who gave the exams. Ibiki? He's cool... I like how his head is full of potholes. I want to cosplay someone... I just don't know who. I'm already sick of everyone doing popular-Naruto-character cosplaying though...
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Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 7:05 pm
takako_tenshi Ibiki? He's cool... I like how his head is full of potholes. I want to cosplay someone... I just don't know who. I'm already sick of everyone doing popular-Naruto-character cosplaying though... I'm surprised there aren't more Tuxedo Mo.. Masks running around... or maybe they're like me and hate the lack of WHITE GLOVES!!!! scream *eats Takako to calm down*
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Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 8:50 pm
Just spent all day out at an amusement park (And thus missed another arguement. I seem to have a skill for doing that, both online and IRL.) with a bunch of foreign scouts. Our district had this program where foreign scouts come and stay for a week of camp and then stay another week with a local scout. It's pretty cool, except the only country that came this year was Ireland.
Still though, I can think of worse ways to spend a day than wandering an amusement park with many attractive Irish girls. wink
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Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 9:11 pm
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