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| Good news to you? |
| Yes, yes it IS good news! =D |
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75% |
[ 34 ] |
| Not really, I own the book. But good for everyone anyways! |
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22% |
[ 10 ] |
| NO. The book sucked and I hated it. |
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2% |
[ 1 ] |
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| Total Votes : 45 |
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 Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 2:49 pm
The only two parts that really bugged me where the giovanni chapter (not so much giovanni but Lucia...obviously) and the Christine getting pregnant by Erik, it's just seems like a really obvious and unneccessary phan insert, Lucia representing the mobs of annoying children that wish they could be or meet with some one like Erik (...and the their eventual end as well), and the Christine/Erik child seemed like Kay's *gigglesnort* "Wouldn't it be cool if they ended up together?" which personally is a horrid betrayal of the what PoTO is really about.
I'm not sure if I've said this before but her ending changes the readers conception of Erik. Leroux's Erik only wanted love (becuase for mercy's sake the man had nothing else in life...) and that's all he ever wanted. Admittedly there's still a sense of corrupted obsession and lust but I personally believe that he manifested that in his art forms and that to some extent Christine only represented the beautiful angel of a woman that bring him the love that he was always denied (like how Erik represented to Christine the dark and wild side of her soul that wanted to bring to her womanhood such that they love what the other represented, and not the actual person [paritally might I add, partially]). Yet when Erik in Kay's novel sleeps with Christine and gives her a child there's a subtle sense of selfishness that emerges in this new Erik (as he ruins two more lives), that he had to consume a person entirely, her love wasn't enough apparantly, and then leave an extension of himself. I don't see this in Leroux's Erik at all, which is why I'm disgusted with Kay's ending becuase it just doesn't sit morally right with me at the end, and I feel far more pity for Raoul than Erik.
And this is my b***h moment heart
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Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 4:39 pm
Oh RDS I agree with you entirely. Seriously you voiced my exact thoughts on the book (get out of my head). From the moment Lucia entered I knew she was gonna die, the second they mentioned the balcony needed work, I knew she would fall off of it.
But the thing is so many people already have a warped vision of Erik... so many of them do whether it is from just seeing the play or their own little dreams and fantasies.
And I do pity Raoul because he can now never have a child unless he wants to cheat on Christine or remarry after she died which it seems he'd rather die than do.
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Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 5:40 pm
What, have I inspired b***h moments now? XD
And really, I'll agree wholeheartedly. Lucia was definately a few steps shy of a Mary Sue, though who for I wouldn't know. She was more, as RDS said, a general insert for every annoying child who thinks they're a phan (and even some phans! *gasp*). A strange breed of Sue, but one nonetheless.
Also, you bring up a great point. Erik was a self-loathing, pitiable man whose only want in life was to have the love of a woman. Since Kay gave Christine the damn heart to give him the satisfaction, I don't see why she didn't stop there. It was perfect, in a sense. Erik, at his death bed, would have the love he'd searched for and die happily as he pretty much did in Leroux's novel.
But NOOOO. Give the man a dying request of a good romp under the sheets! rolleyes I mean, really. Surely Erik knew the consequences of that request. He would be sullying a marriage AND giving an heir to whatever bullshit legacy he thought he had.
Erik, though villainous, would not have done that. By all means he loved Christine enough to at last let her go and be with Raoul. Why would he then turn around and sully it with any need of his own, then ruin both de Chagny's lives by giving Christine a child? I would think he'd fear the disease he had would spread to the child and he would've inspired another damned face in the world. Christine as well.
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Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 7:58 pm
I personally think that Christine should have married Erik. Everyone knows that they both loved each other...
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Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 1:14 pm
Phantoms_lover I personally think that Christine should have married Erik. Everyone knows that they both loved each other... Everyone knows she did NOT LOVE HIM! GOD! I'M SO SICK OF THAT. GOD, SHE LOVED RAOUL. *seeth*
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Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 1:57 pm
Phantoms_Lover, I'm tired of you doing this. You'n several other members' posts I keep having to delete because it's either utter bull or spam. If I have to do anymore of it, I will not hesitate to be the ultimate b***h and ban someone.
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Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 7:18 pm
Utakan Phantoms_Lover, I'm tired of you doing this. You'n several other members' posts I keep having to delete because it's either utter bull or spam. If I have to do anymore of it, I will not hesitate to be the ultimate b***h and ban someone. *Cries* Uta people scare me!
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Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 7:36 pm
I know. I'm just REALLY tired of having to do this. I try and be nice and then I get my efforts wasted by being stomped on. I want this Guild to be fun and entertaining, but I will not have someone start up the "but Christine and Erik were in LOVE!" bullshit because any real Phan would know better, even if they hoped for that.
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Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 12:36 pm
Memo to self: Don't piss off Utakan. (But slightly OT: Were my posts some of the ones you were having to delete? 'Cause it was really annoying me that they were disappearing without anyone telling me why.)
But back on-topic... The harem virgin thing seemed a little odd to me. I mean, every woman Erik ever meets, including his own mother, is foaming at the mouth to get into his ever-lovin' black immaculate virgin pants except for the one girl in a position (no pun intended) to do so? And this one girl just happens to have been trained for just that purpose in addition to being under pain of death?
(I love the parody for that scene, though...
Erik: Sleep with me or die.
Nadir: *facepalm* Real smooth, Cassanova...)
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Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 12:56 pm
PhantomoftheFox (I love the parody for that scene, though... Erik: Sleep with me or die. Nadir: *facepalm* Real smooth, Cassanova...) XD Where is this? o_O? *hugs for Uta* It irritates me so much because it's just... just so fake. No TRUE phan says that's fact
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Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 4:44 pm
PhantomoftheFox Memo to self: Don't piss off Utakan. (But slightly OT: Were my posts some of the ones you were having to delete? 'Cause it was really annoying me that they were disappearing without anyone telling me why.) But back on-topic... The harem virgin thing seemed a little odd to me. I mean, every woman Erik ever meets, including his own mother, is foaming at the mouth to get into his ever-lovin' black immaculate virgin pants except for the one girl in a position (no pun intended) to do so? And this one girl just happens to have been trained for just that purpose in addition to being under pain of death? (I love the parody for that scene, though... Erik: Sleep with me or die. Nadir: *facepalm* Real smooth, Cassanova...) I don't remember ever removing any of your posts. If I did, you can bop me on the head. That whole concept bothered me, really. Just about every woman he came across wanted him, but give him that slave girl and WHAM! No friggen way. Though I commend Erik for not forcing himself on her, the entire scene was a rather "wtf?" moment.
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Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 7:39 am
Odd. Well, someone was. About eight posts I submitted and which were replied to disappeared. And they all seemed to be my pro-Raoul rants.
But agreed. It seemed contrived, to me. Some random circumstance derived to give Erik a reason to wangst for the rest of eternity. But on the other hand, if you look at character and consider that the Khanum probably picked the girl... I don't doubt that she'd pick a skittish, crazy one just to mess with Erik's head. So it both works and it doesn't.
The parody is... *gestures vaguely* somewhere on ff.net. I don't remember.
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Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 9:46 am
I think you guys are taking a few instances and twisting them about, and I'm actually pro-Kay in this b***h moment (brought to you by Uta wink ) becuase I think you've exaggerated it Just un peau. And PhantomoftheFox when did Erik's mother ever try to get into his pants? eek Last I read she was fully disgusted with him...
And to trace Erik's interactions with people...Mother: [hated him] ...but eventually [loved him] , mother's keeper: [scared to death of him], mother's village: [scared and despised].
Gypsy camp: Well that one guy wanted to [molest him] ...O.o (so if your theory is true it's every woman and...one man XD ) and he ran into one gypsy chick...and I can't remember what happened but I think the end result was [scared].
Giovanni was a father, probably a bit [scared] but also [understanding] Lucia, I'm going to say she wanted to [molest] the poor child.
His time with head honcho persian chick (I forget her name gonk ) was....probably along the same lines as [visually molested] but that was a weird relationship. The harem virgin= [scared and despised]The rest of Persia= [scared and despised]
And in the opera house [scared and despised] except with Christine who he initially tricks but eventually has an [understanding love]
Final conclusion? I think Kay does a very good job of letting people know that Erik is basically unwelcomed and despised everywhere he goes, but the very few personal interactions he has with the very few women he meets (and uh...that one man >.>...) she shows the power of his aura (which is probably what enticed the persian chick and lucia) but only the exposure of his dying heart led to a full love by Christine.
So don't let it go to your heads scream
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Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 3:28 pm
Once more, you have a point RDS.
I think it's exxagurated because of the way she presents the situations. She gives Erik the pervy wit of sexual innuendo which he uses and thus presents more heady situations. Of course, taken flatly you can see that not everyone wanted to jump him.
And I believe you're talking about the khanum (head honcho Persian woman). That women was just nuts.
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Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 9:27 pm
Still waiting for my order to come. I can't wait to finally read it!
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