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 Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 9:22 pm
Enigma Master Andrew His strength 180.638 tons. Speed % Percent faster than the speed of lightning. If that is his max strengh, he's screwed.
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Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 11:08 pm
Kamikazek-Z Enigma Master Andrew His strength 180.638 tons. Speed % Percent faster than the speed of lightning. If that is his max strengh, he's screwed. So far you guys keep on saying that But I still havent seen anything that would lead me to believe otherwise..
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Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 7:29 am
Well, Superman will never hit Goku, so its pretty much irrelevant. If you don't think that Goku can do serious damage, when un-blocked, then you're just being ignorant. You probably do know it.
Let me re-introduce the point:
Goku will NEVER be hit by TV Supes.
TV Supes will NEVER hit Goku.
Goku will almost ALWAYS hit TV Supes.
Goku can stay SSJ forever, and probably SSJ2.
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Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 8:25 am
Keep on telling yourself that Rikeen. Sounds like your getting more desperate to change my opinion and your actions are starteing to become clouded by ignorace. The dark side of the force I sense growing in you. ** Keeps hand near light sabre** stare
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Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 8:31 am
*Duel of Fates playing the background*
"You underestimate my power!"
*Hand on hilt of blade*
__________________
Tell me, what are we debating about?
The un-addressed issues are as follows:
Speed:
Strength:
If you have grown weary, maybe forfeit?
But I know you won't do that. So here, let's talk your way.
Lets go through this step by step, and clear the issues.
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Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 8:43 am
I have learned some new fun facts about Goku that I didn't know. In all honesty I'm leaning towards either Goku winning or a tie due to both of them dropping from exaughstion. ( I said Goku winning for two reasons. I kinda sorta see that as believeably.** Is iffy** And I'm tired of debateing against 3 people on my lonesome and our arguments are starting to run in loops.)
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Saiyan Master Vegeta Vice Captain
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Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 8:48 am
Enigma Master Andrew Last Post for the night: I still give strength to Superman and I haven't seen anything for me to believe otherwise. Er, how? That clip of Goku pushing the rocks apart outdoes Supes hitting Darkseid through the buildings.
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Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 2:39 pm
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Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:18 pm
Ok now like I was saying before. Most of the arguments you guys are bringing up are merely assumptions that have no canon proof. As for Superman's punching speed I've been doing some research on that Riddle me this. Wonder Woman blocks laser beams with her wrist bracelet. Laser beams travel at the speed of light. When Superman and Wonder Woman fought he punched obviously faster than she was able to block. Ergo Superman can punch faster than a Laser beam.
Vegeta: That looks like hes merely pushing it aside with Ki energy to me. Two reasons for this.
1. The mountains are moving and his arms are not. they stay in the same place and aren't being stretched out, as would happen when someone pushes something back.
2. Goku is so small h isn't even visible compared to the mountain when the screen pans back. The mountains are still moving at this point. So unless hes able to stretch his arms I doubt that is physical strength. That is why I believe Superman outclasses him in that department. Sorry to keep you guys waiting. mrgreen And to answer your question from the Other thread Vegeta. I did challenge Kami Z to 100 pages. Does that mean I can't take a break from time to time?
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Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 6:23 pm
WRONG WRONG WRONG!
Lol, I never thought I'd use this arguement to my ADVANTAGE! (Star Wars negative)
Laser beams do not travel at the SoL.
They travel as fast as they're shown on screen, and I can see them.
So are you saying that he is providing RESISTANCE with KI?
(AKA ki shield?!)
Please, I know you're smart, and you probably do not like to be wrong.
Not saying you are just yet, but you're close.
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Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 6:35 pm
In a logical sense the laser would be the speed of light. But if you need to go on screen they would still be that speed because they're showing it from Superman or Wonder Womans point of veiw. The only reason they appear as slow is it makes it more interesting. If they showed what it would look like from our point of view we wouldnt be able to see it. I dont really care about being wrong. I'm a Blade fanboy and after defending him I admitted that he would lose to Alucard from Hellsing. I never said that Superman had a specific resistance to Ki... And it would be nearly impossible to calculate something that is merely shown on screen.
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Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 6:58 pm
@ Andrew:
If something actually did travel at light speed, it wouldn't matter what point of view you look from. You wouldn't be able to see it anyway.
Also, the excuse of making the show more interesting has no grounds. It doesn't prove anything.
--------------------------------
And on to the mountain push . . .
Notice how his arms are struggling, kind of like when you bench press something that weighs a lot?
Also, we never see the use of ki. That is your assumption. A claim like this could be traced back to the supposed use of ki when blocking ki with their hands. We never see it, thus it never happens. It's pure physical force. Here, we don't see Goku use ki to push them apart, so it doesn't happen.
--------------------------------
And on a side note . . .
Let's pretend, just for a moment, that the mountain issue was never brought up, and we weren't discussing it . . .
Using the example of Supes hitting Darkseid through those buildings is still far under what people in the DBU do. We see even greater acts during Vegeta's first appearance. Dragonball Z characters are infamous for smashing their opponents through mountains. Even someone who has watched a couple episodes here and there would know that.
And the key word here is mountains, and if not mountains, then giant rock formations. Buildings are hollow and have glass on the outside. Solid rock however, is many times harder and thicker than a building, and various DBU characters are continuously successful in smashing their opponents through them.
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Saiyan Master Vegeta Vice Captain
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Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 7:35 pm
They don't actually show his hands on the two sides. Thus I don't believe it. Actually it would matter. SS moves thousands of times the speed of light. You telling me he wouldn't be able to see it? Same for the flash. My point is if you're capable of moving that fast then you would be able to see it. Yes Goku's arms are struggling but that still doesn't answer my question on how he was pushing them apart when they would be no where near his body. You're also claiming that Goku is pushing them apart with brute force. According to your logic if we don't see it then it doesn't exist, correct? So that means he wasn't pushing them back with brute force. Brute strength didn't seem to fluctuate too much in DBZ and DBGT only power levels and speed seemed to increase all that much I'm not saying strength didn't increase but probably not as much as your thinking. The only strength feet we really have for Goku is training in what was it 300 times Earths gravity. And then that begs the question of exactly how cannoly strong he was before that. Now here's my new estimate on Superman's strength. He can casually float in the air with 180 tons supported by one arm. now 180 tons is the weight of an empty Jumbo Jet. Factor in passengers and cargo also the possibility of pets and other personal items ( I'll just assume it was full for the sake of debate. If you want really want to argue I'll drop it down to half full at the least.) and that is 20 tons add that to the 180 tons and you get 200 tons casually supported on one arm. Now seeing as he was barely trying I'm going to stretch out on a limb here and say Superman could go as high as an extra 50 tons. Now the extra 50 tons even though I think it to be more is an assumption. If you disagree it's cool because there's still 200 tons of casually used strength packed in each of those guns. Also not that when Vegeta knocks people through mountains they lose momentum and stop. When Superman hit Darkseid, Darkseid didn't show any signs of being even close to slowing down. I'm trying to be careful with my estimates to prevent from exaggerating.
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Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 3:15 am
Saiyan Master Vegeta @ Andrew:If something actually did travel at light speed, it wouldn't matter what point of view you look from. You wouldn't be able to see it anyway. Also, the excuse of making the show more interesting has no grounds. It doesn't prove anything. -------------------------------- And on to the mountain push . . . Notice how his arms are struggling, kind of like when you bench press something that weighs a lot? Also, we never see the use of ki. That is your assumption. A claim like this could be traced back to the supposed use of ki when blocking ki with their hands. We never see it, thus it never happens. It's pure physical force. Here, we don't see Goku use ki to push them apart, so it doesn't happen. -------------------------------- And on a side note . . . Let's pretend, just for a moment, that the mountain issue was never brought up, and we weren't discussing it . . . Using the example of Supes hitting Darkseid through those buildings is still far under what people in the DBU do. We see even greater acts during Vegeta's first appearance. Dragonball Z characters are infamous for smashing their opponents through mountains. Even someone who has watched a couple episodes here and there would know that. And the key word here is mountains, and if not mountains, then giant rock formations. Buildings are hollow and have glass on the outside. Solid rock however, is many times harder and thicker than a building, and various DBU characters are continuously successful in smashing their opponents through them. Don't underestimate the Durability of Buildings and you forget a common ingredient to Sky scrapers... STEEL GIRDERS in those fights Darkseid and Captain Marvel went through Buildings and Buildings collasped Damage done to steel Girders steel is much harder than rock. Hell the Shockwave from the punch against Marvel and Darkeid warped the buildings(Multiples here) These Punches did not connect with them just the Shockwave from the Punches did that.
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Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 4:33 am
I am willing to introduce a point of order here.
You are bringing a valid point, the punches are greater than the after effects.
Why, why can we not establish this in DBZ?
Anyways, steel would be greater, but this is about a mile of SOLID rock.
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