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 Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 7:53 pm
Riiko..Izawa Nebulance In Medias Res IV Nebulance In Medias Res IV Nebulance That's exactly what I'm saying. smile Being gay is no different from 'being' selfish. Our actions, and our thoughts as far as we control them, are what matter. So in other words, infertile people are selfish too because nothing good can come from their relationship, right? They can't make babies. Oh, and sex for pleasure is a HUGE no no. No, you misunderstand, and I'm afraid it may be fault-- I didn't word that very well. I was not equating homosexuality and selfishness. I was pointing out that having selfish desires is a 'natural' part of all our natures. We don't sin when a wrong thought, be it a selfish thought or a homosexual thought, pops unbidden into our minds. We sin when we act on those thoughts. Or choose to dwell on them. Then how exactly am I sinning when I am in a committed monogamous homosexual relationship? By acting on your homosexual desires. What if she gets married first (in the state that allow it)? That would make her happy and satisfy a life of celibacy. Would you have a problem with that? I think you mean 'chastity,' which is refraining from sexual intercourse outside of marriage. 'Celibacy' is refraining completely from sexual intercourse.
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Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 7:54 pm
Nebulance Riiko..Izawa Nebulance In Medias Res IV Nebulance No, you misunderstand, and I'm afraid it may be fault-- I didn't word that very well. I was not equating homosexuality and selfishness. I was pointing out that having selfish desires is a 'natural' part of all our natures. We don't sin when a wrong thought, be it a selfish thought or a homosexual thought, pops unbidden into our minds. We sin when we act on those thoughts. Or choose to dwell on them. Then how exactly am I sinning when I am in a committed monogamous homosexual relationship? By acting on your homosexual desires. What if she gets married first (in the state that allow it)? That would make her happy and satisfy a life of celibacy. Would you have a problem with that? I think you mean 'chastity,' which is refraining from sexual intercourse outside of marriage. 'Celibacy' is refraining completely from sexual intercourse. Good thing I am allowed to marry the one I love so it's not sex outside of marriage
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Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 7:54 pm
Nebulance Obito319 I'm only 14 and haven't started dating yet do to being Mormon again I'm sorry for any offense and if it will make you feel better I'll crawl into a hole of anger at myself for insulting another human being (no joke I'm really truly sorry from the bottom of my heart) Relax. You didn't do anything wrong. ahh but I felt I did something wrong, Like in the mormon excursion known as trek I had to watch the young women pull a handcart and I couldn't help them. I might not have done anything wrong because i was told not to help, but I had the strength to help and thus felt terrible and hated myself for it
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Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 7:57 pm
In Medias Res IV Nebulance In Medias Res IV Nebulance In Medias Res IV Obito319 This really is a heated debate... How about this every one take a deep breathe say that we are all family in the human race and that love is love (drugs are finally starting wear off) we can all have ou r preference of who we are attracted to that won't changeIt's not a preference. At what age did you CHOOSE to be heterosexual? Chill. Now. Preferences do not have to be chosen. I didn't choose to like pizza, either. is eating pizza a "sin"? You don't like pizza but you can choose not to eat it. I can't help who I fall in love with and I have a right to love. And this is what makes me angry. Not people disagreeing with me or my lifestyle. People willfully ignoring my points. I've already said, at least a dozen times, that 'being' homosexual is not a sin. And if God had said not to eat pizza, I'd trust Him and not eat pizza. Because He'd have a good reason for having said so. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that you have an absolute 'right' to marry and have carnal relations with whoever you please. Nowhere even in the Scriptures you take to be holy. No where in the scriptures does it say that homosexuality, particularly lesbianism, is a sin. I'm not ignoring your point, your point is silly. You're comparing a preference in food with a sexual attraction to another human being that can manifest into LOVE. The same LOVE that heterosexuals have. My original point here was that you were accusing this kid, who is now beating themself up, of calling homosexuality a 'choice' when, in fact, they did no such thing. The point that you were ignoring was that I've said 'being' homosexual is not a sin.
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Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 7:58 pm
In Medias Res IV Nebulance Riiko..Izawa Nebulance In Medias Res IV Nebulance No, you misunderstand, and I'm afraid it may be fault-- I didn't word that very well. I was not equating homosexuality and selfishness. I was pointing out that having selfish desires is a 'natural' part of all our natures. We don't sin when a wrong thought, be it a selfish thought or a homosexual thought, pops unbidden into our minds. We sin when we act on those thoughts. Or choose to dwell on them. Then how exactly am I sinning when I am in a committed monogamous homosexual relationship? By acting on your homosexual desires. What if she gets married first (in the state that allow it)? That would make her happy and satisfy a life of celibacy. Would you have a problem with that? I think you mean 'chastity,' which is refraining from sexual intercourse outside of marriage. 'Celibacy' is refraining completely from sexual intercourse. Good thing I am allowed to marry the one I love so it's not sex outside of marriage The world's legality does not set God's morality.
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Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 7:59 pm
Nebulance Riiko..Izawa Nebulance In Medias Res IV Nebulance No, you misunderstand, and I'm afraid it may be fault-- I didn't word that very well. I was not equating homosexuality and selfishness. I was pointing out that having selfish desires is a 'natural' part of all our natures. We don't sin when a wrong thought, be it a selfish thought or a homosexual thought, pops unbidden into our minds. We sin when we act on those thoughts. Or choose to dwell on them. Then how exactly am I sinning when I am in a committed monogamous homosexual relationship? By acting on your homosexual desires. What if she gets married first (in the state that allow it)? That would make her happy and satisfy a life of celibacy. Would you have a problem with that? I think you mean 'chastity,' which is refraining from sexual intercourse outside of marriage. 'Celibacy' is refraining completely from sexual intercourse. Oh, okay, sorry. Still, would what I mentioned earlier be okay, I think it's a rather fair compromise.
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Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:01 pm
I'm not exactly beating myself up this is just how I am with Vikadin in my system apparently and having bled from my mouth for maybe 10 hours and not taking my iron for 62 hours and thus can't think or walk in a straight line to save my life
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Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:03 pm
Riiko..Izawa Nebulance Riiko..Izawa Nebulance In Medias Res IV Nebulance No, you misunderstand, and I'm afraid it may be fault-- I didn't word that very well. I was not equating homosexuality and selfishness. I was pointing out that having selfish desires is a 'natural' part of all our natures. We don't sin when a wrong thought, be it a selfish thought or a homosexual thought, pops unbidden into our minds. We sin when we act on those thoughts. Or choose to dwell on them. Then how exactly am I sinning when I am in a committed monogamous homosexual relationship? By acting on your homosexual desires. What if she gets married first (in the state that allow it)? That would make her happy and satisfy a life of celibacy. Would you have a problem with that? I think you mean 'chastity,' which is refraining from sexual intercourse outside of marriage. 'Celibacy' is refraining completely from sexual intercourse. Oh, okay, sorry. Still, would what I mentioned earlier be okay, I think it's a rather fair compromise. Celibate homosexuality is fine. Some think Paul may have been a celibate homosexual, and that his homosexual desires may have been the 'thorn in his side' that he spoke of. The Bible only recognizes marriage as between a man and a woman. A chaste homosexual is thus, by definition, a celibate homosexual, or a homosexual that chooses to engage solely in marital heterosexual relations nonetheless (not that this is at all required, just throwing out the possibility).
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Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:20 pm
Nebulance In Medias Res IV Nebulance In Medias Res IV Nebulance No, you misunderstand, and I'm afraid it may be fault-- I didn't word that very well. I was not equating homosexuality and selfishness. I was pointing out that having selfish desires is a 'natural' part of all our natures. We don't sin when a wrong thought, be it a selfish thought or a homosexual thought, pops unbidden into our minds. We sin when we act on those thoughts. Or choose to dwell on them. Then how exactly am I sinning when I am in a committed monogamous homosexual relationship? By acting on your homosexual desires. And based on the Torah, homosexuality is not a sin. Bullshit. PROVE IT
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Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:30 pm
In Medias Res IV Nebulance In Medias Res IV Nebulance In Medias Res IV Then how exactly am I sinning when I am in a committed monogamous homosexual relationship? By acting on your homosexual desires. And based on the Torah, homosexuality is not a sin. Bullshit. PROVE IT You made the original claim. I call bullshit because there is no Scripture to back it up, even if you dismiss the obvious Scripture against it. Also add in the fact that the vast majority of Rabbis around the world believe differently and are far more qualified than you to interpret the Torah. Judaism has NEVER been okay with homosexuality, and just because you want to reinterpret it that way does not make it so. Vasilius Konstantinos From hereon out anyone is able to argue using the Torah as an example go for it. No one here on this forum has the right to claim it as their own as it is a basic foundation for three of the major faiths of the World. Anyone who claims otherwise is an elitist and needs to back off. I am making this statement based on the abuse of Vayikra towards wording it in an attempt to condone homosexuality as common among the Jewish faith of today. This is a farce, and is abused by the non-faith practicing Jewish culture. Rabbinical Judaic Vayikra tradition upholds that homosexuality is not acceptable, even among Halacha teachings about the subject. Even in modern day, every Rabbi I have ever brought the issue to, including the two Chief Rabbis Yona Metzger and Shlomo Amar of Israel, both teach that homosexuality is not acceptable as a lifestyle and is forbidden in the eyes of HaShem.
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Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:33 pm
Nebulance In Medias Res IV Nebulance In Medias Res IV Nebulance By acting on your homosexual desires. And based on the Torah, homosexuality is not a sin. Bullshit. PROVE IT You made the original claim. I call bullshit because there is no Scripture to back it up, even if you dismiss the obvious Scripture against it. Also add in the fact that the vast majority of Rabbis around the world believe differently and are far more qualified than you to interpret the Torah. Judaism has NEVER been okay with homosexuality, and just because you want to reinterpret it that way does not make it so. Vasilius Konstantinos From hereon out anyone is able to argue using the Torah as an example go for it. No one here on this forum has the right to claim it as their own as it is a basic foundation for three of the major faiths of the World. Anyone who claims otherwise is an elitist and needs to back off. I am making this statement based on the abuse of Vayikra towards wording it in an attempt to condone homosexuality as common among the Jewish faith of today. This is a farce, and is abused by the non-faith practicing Jewish culture. Rabbinical Judaic Vayikra tradition upholds that homosexuality is not acceptable, even among Halacha teachings about the subject. Even in modern day, every Rabbi I have ever brought the issue to, including the two Chief Rabbis Yona Metzger and Shlomo Amar of Israel, both teach that homosexuality is not acceptable as a lifestyle and is forbidden in the eyes of HaShem. I'm not talking about Judaism, I am talking about the Torah. Not all the rabbis in the world are correct. There are plenty of interpretations. So if a Minister said that Jesus was a fraud, you'd automatically believe him? Or if a Priest said "That's it! We're not to eat bacon!" You'd blindly follow? I have a word for that. Sheep! NOT ALL JEWS BELIEVE IN THE SAME THING
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Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:34 pm
Anyway, I've gtg for now. I'll probably be back on sometime later tonight to address points and concerns (and death threats wink ) that have come up in the meantime.
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Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:36 pm
In Medias Res IV Nebulance In Medias Res IV Nebulance In Medias Res IV And based on the Torah, homosexuality is not a sin. Bullshit. PROVE IT You made the original claim. I call bullshit because there is no Scripture to back it up, even if you dismiss the obvious Scripture against it. Also add in the fact that the vast majority of Rabbis around the world believe differently and are far more qualified than you to interpret the Torah. Judaism has NEVER been okay with homosexuality, and just because you want to reinterpret it that way does not make it so. Vasilius Konstantinos From hereon out anyone is able to argue using the Torah as an example go for it. No one here on this forum has the right to claim it as their own as it is a basic foundation for three of the major faiths of the World. Anyone who claims otherwise is an elitist and needs to back off. I am making this statement based on the abuse of Vayikra towards wording it in an attempt to condone homosexuality as common among the Jewish faith of today. This is a farce, and is abused by the non-faith practicing Jewish culture. Rabbinical Judaic Vayikra tradition upholds that homosexuality is not acceptable, even among Halacha teachings about the subject. Even in modern day, every Rabbi I have ever brought the issue to, including the two Chief Rabbis Yona Metzger and Shlomo Amar of Israel, both teach that homosexuality is not acceptable as a lifestyle and is forbidden in the eyes of HaShem. I'm not talking about Judaism, I am talking about the Torah. Not all the rabbis in the world are correct. There are plenty of interpretations. So if a Minister said that Jesus was a fraud, you'd automatically believe him? Or if a Priest said "That's it! We're not to eat bacon!" You'd blindly follow? I have a word for that. Sheep! NOT ALL JEWS BELIEVE IN THE SAME THING Judaism is the religion founded on the Torah. If you want to interpret it differently than the vast majority of Rabbis have always interpreted it, you'd better present some solid support to back up your interpretation. I look forward to seeing those scripture references when I get back on later tonight.
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Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:51 pm
Nebulance In Medias Res IV Nebulance You made the original claim. I call bullshit because there is no Scripture to back it up, even if you dismiss the obvious Scripture against it. Also add in the fact that the vast majority of Rabbis around the world believe differently and are far more qualified than you to interpret the Torah. Judaism has NEVER been okay with homosexuality, and just because you want to reinterpret it that way does not make it so. Vasilius Konstantinos From hereon out anyone is able to argue using the Torah as an example go for it. No one here on this forum has the right to claim it as their own as it is a basic foundation for three of the major faiths of the World. Anyone who claims otherwise is an elitist and needs to back off. I am making this statement based on the abuse of Vayikra towards wording it in an attempt to condone homosexuality as common among the Jewish faith of today. This is a farce, and is abused by the non-faith practicing Jewish culture. Rabbinical Judaic Vayikra tradition upholds that homosexuality is not acceptable, even among Halacha teachings about the subject. Even in modern day, every Rabbi I have ever brought the issue to, including the two Chief Rabbis Yona Metzger and Shlomo Amar of Israel, both teach that homosexuality is not acceptable as a lifestyle and is forbidden in the eyes of HaShem. I'm not talking about Judaism, I am talking about the Torah. Not all the rabbis in the world are correct. There are plenty of interpretations. So if a Minister said that Jesus was a fraud, you'd automatically believe him? Or if a Priest said "That's it! We're not to eat bacon!" You'd blindly follow? I have a word for that. Sheep! NOT ALL JEWS BELIEVE IN THE SAME THING Judaism is the religion founded on the Torah. If you want to interpret it differently than the vast majority of Rabbis have always interpreted it, you'd better present some solid support to back up your interpretation. I look forward to seeing those scripture references when I get back on later tonight. FUNNY, the vast majority of rabbis are Conservative and Reform. Homosexuality and Conservative Judaism A resolution of the Rabbinical Assembly Whereas Judaism affirms that the Divine image reflected by every human being must always be cherished and affirmed, and Whereas Jews have always been sensitive to the impact of official and unofficial prejudice and discrimination, whenever directed, and Whereas gay and lesbian Jews have experienced not only the constant threats of physical violence and homophobic rejection, but also the pains of anti-Semitism known to all Jews and, additionally, a sense of painful alienation from our own religious institutions, and Whereas the extended family of gay and lesbian Jews are often members of our congregations who live with concern for the safety, health, and well being of their children, and Whereas the AIDS crisis has deeply exacerbated the anxiety and suffering of this community of Jews who need in their lives the compassionate concern and support mandated by Jewish Tradition, Therefore be it resolved that we, the Rabbinical Assembly, while affirming our tradition's prescription for heterosexuality, 1) Support full civil equality for gays and lesbians in our national life, and 2) Deplore the violence against gays and lesbians in our society, and 3) Reiterate that, as are all Jews, gay men and lesbians are welcome as members in our congregations, and 4) Call upon our synagogues and the arms of our movement to increase our awareness, understanding and concern for our fellow Jews who are gay and lesbian. http://djs28.tripod.com/conservative1.htmlNov 4 2008 More liberal branches of Judaism are allowing for the ordination of gay and lesbian rabbis and are allowing their rabbis and congregations to perform or host same-sex commitment ceremonies http://judaism.about.com/od/homosexualityandjudaism/a/samesex_2.htm
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Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 9:17 pm
Odd. I thought you said you were Orthodox in another thread, or mad the claim to it hence why I brought this up in the first place as going against the Orthodox view.
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