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Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 8:34 am
SinfulGuillotine Shiroi Kokoro no Mendori Sorry, what? How exactly is the desire to murder, commit adultery, or steal genetic? Because it makes for a really kick-arse insanity defense when all the evidence is against you. Actually according to this article it could be http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1004083,00.html
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Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 11:27 am
ryokomayuka SinfulGuillotine Shiroi Kokoro no Mendori Sorry, what? How exactly is the desire to murder, commit adultery, or steal genetic? Because it makes for a really kick-arse insanity defense when all the evidence is against you. Actually according to this article it could be http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1004083,00.html I know there's been research to suggest that it's possible, but it's not definitive, andusing it as a defense in court rings of simply refusing to take responsiblity for your actions. "My genes made me do it!" While genetics can give people certain proclivities, they still do not define one's actions, or absolve one of responsibility for one's actions. But this a completely different topic, and I have a whole separate rant for it, so that's all I'll say here.
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Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 6:09 pm
The bible does condemn homosexuality. Corinthians 6:9, a verse in 1 Timothy (don't remember the specific verse), and Romans 1:25 (vaguely).
However, the bible also condemns drunkenness, pornography, anger, impatience, fornication, and many other things. Saying a homosexual cannot be a Christian is the same as saying I can't be a Christian because I had sex before marriage.
(btw, my full opinion on this is in my journal.....it's too long to post here)
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Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 8:43 am
Shiroi Kokoro no Mendori Sorry, what? How exactly is the desire to murder, commit adultery, or steal genetic? What happened to "I knew you in your mother's womb"? If we were born this way, God wanted us this way. If a child is born autistic, like I was, or born part deaf, like I was, or with above-average intelligence, like I was, it was the will of God. Why does this suddenly change for sexual abnormalities? Sorry, what? How exactly is the desire to murder, commit adultery, or steal genetic?I didn't say that genetics caused these things, I said sin did. Genetics causes hair color, eye color, skin color, and things of that nature. The first sin that was committed by humanity got Adam and Eve kick out of the Garden of Eden and release sin into the world. Then sin made its way into their family when Cain killed his brother Abel out of jealousy. Sin continued to trickle down through Cain's family line and eventually it effected more and more until it consumed entire towns and villages like Sodom and Gomorrah. God sent angels to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah for its wickedness. As time pasted sin continued to spread until the entire world was deemed unclean excepted for Noah and his family so God flooded the world to eradicate the wickedness. Sin is still spreading through our world..... sin warps our minds and deforms our bodies, whether it be while in the womb or later on life. What happened to "I knew you in your mother's womb"? If we were born this way, God wanted us this way.I said that God created our spirits and that our human bodies were create by God through the cycle of reproduction that started with Adam and Eve. I did not say that while in the womb that God is not with us.....because God is with always (God is omnipresent ) in all of our lives but that doesn't mean that God was in the womb sculpting each of us to his desire......it just simply says "I knew you in your mother's womb" If a child is born autistic, like I was, or born part deaf, like I was, or with above-average intelligence, like I was, it was the will of God.How can you say that it is the will of God that you suffer so much or that anyone suffer from such things......God loves use so much that he created us, so much that God sent his only son Jesus Christ to die for us, so why do you feel that God would put you through so much suffer when God loves you so much. How can you say that our loving God would put such afflictions on innocent babies?
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Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 12:29 pm
Christianity and Homosexuality
The homosexuals and lesbians have gained considerable political and social momentum in America. They have "come out" as the term goes, left their closets, and are knocking on the doors of your homes. Through TV, Radio, Newspapers, and Magazines, they are preaching their doctrine of tolerance, equality, justice, and love. They do not want to be perceived as abnormal or dangerous. They want acceptance and they want you to welcome them with open, loving arms, approving of what they do. In numerous states in America several bills have been introduced by the pro homosexual politicians to ensure that the practice of homosexuality is a right protected by law. Included in these bills are statements affecting employers, renters, and schools. Even churches would be required to hire a quota of homosexuals with "sensitivity" training courses to be "strongly urged" in various work places. There is even legislation that would make the state pick up the tab for the defense of homosexuality in lawsuits, while requiring the non homosexual side to pay out of his/her pocket. The Christian church has not stood idle. When it has spoken out against this political immorality, the cry of "separation of church and state" is shouted at the "religious bigots." But when the homosexual community uses political power to control the church, no such cry of bigotry is heard. Political correctness says it is okay for the homosexual community to impose its will upon churches, but not the other way around. Apparently, it isn't politically correct to side with Christians.
What does the Bible say?
The Bible, as God's word, reveals God's moral character and it shapes the morality of the Christian. There have been those who have used the Bible to support homosexuality, taken verses out of context and read into them interpretations that are not there. Quite simply, the Bible condemns homosexuality as a sin. Let's look at what it says.
Lev. 18:22, "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination." Lev. 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them." 1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals1, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God." Rom. 1:26-28, "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. 28And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper." With such clear statements against homosexuality, it is difficult to see how different groups can say the Bible supports homosexuality. But they try by redefining love, marriage, sex, homosexuality, etc. in order to accomplish their goal. But the truth is that God created man and woman, not man and man, or woman and woman. Nevertheless, the Bible is a powerful book, and because it is the homosexuals often try and make the Bible agree with its agenda. But it doesn't work. The Bible does not support homosexuality as we have seen from the scriptures above. Unlike other sins, this sexual sin has a judgment administered by God Himself: He gives them over to their passions (Rom. 1:26-2 cool . This means that their hearts are allowed to be hardened by their sins. As a result, they can no longer see the error of what they are doing. Without an awareness of their sinfulness, there will be no repentance. Without repentance, there will be no forgiveness. Without forgiveness, there is no salvation. Finally, with their hardened hearts, they seek to promote their lifestyle in society. This is become more real since homosexuals are gaining strength and forcing those with opposing views into confinement and penalty. So much for fairness. It is okay to demand it for themselves, but they balk at allowing it for those who disagree.
Should homosexuals be allowed to marry one another?
In this politically correct climate that relinquishes morality to the relativistic whims of society, stating that homosexuals should not marry is becoming unpopular. Should a woman be allowed to marry another woman? Should a man be allowed to marry another man? Should they be given legal protection and special rights to practice their homosexuality? No, they should not. The Bible, of course, condemns homosexuality. It takes no leap of logic to discern that homosexual marriage is also condemned. But our society does not rely on the Bible for its moral truth. Instead, it relies on a humanistic and relativistic moral base upon which it builds its ethical structure. Homosexuality is not natural. Just look at the male and female bodies. They are obviously designed to couple. The natural design is apparent. It is not natural to couple male with male and female with female. It would be like trying to fit two screws together and to nuts together and then say, "See, its natural for them to go together." Homosexuals argue that homosexuality is natural since it occurs in the animal world. But this is problematic. It is true that this behavior occurs in the animal kingdom. But, it is also true that we see animals eating their prey alive. We see savagery, cruelty, and extreme brutality. Yet, we do not condone such behavior in our own society. Proponents of the natural order argument as a basis for homosexuality should not pick-and-choose the situations that best fit their agendas. They should be consistent and not compare us to animals. We are not animals. We are made in God's image. Logic says that if homosexuality is natural and acceptable because it exists in the animal world, then it must also be natural and acceptable to eat people alive. But, this is obviously faulty thinking. Therefore, appeal to the practice in the animal world as support for homosexual practice is equally faulty. Political protection of a sexual practice is ludicrous. I do not believe it is proper to pass laws stating that homosexuals have 'rights.' What about ***** or bestiality? These are sexual practices. Should they also be protected by law? If homosexuality is protected by law, why not those as well? Of course, these brief paragraphs can in no way exhaust the issue of homosexuality's moral equity. But, the family is the basis of our culture. It is the most basic unit. Destroy it and you destroy society and homosexuality is not helping the family.
What should be the Christian's Response to the Homosexual?
Just because someone is a homosexual does not mean that we cannot love him (or her) or pray for him (her). Homosexuality is a sin and like any other sin, it needs to be dealt with in the only way possible. It needs to be laid at the cross and repented of. Christians should pray for the salvation of the homosexual the same they would any other person in sin. They should treat homosexuals with the same dignity as they would anyone else because, like or not, they are made in the image of God. However, this does not mean that Christians should approve of their sin. Not at all. Christians should not compromise their witness for a politically correct opinion that is shaped by guilt and fear. In fact the following verses should be kept in mind when dealing with homosexuals.
"Conduct yourselves with wisdom toward outsiders, making the most of the opportunity. 6 Let your speech always be with grace, seasoned, as it were, with salt, so that you may know how you should respond to each person," (Col. 4:5-6). "But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith," (1 Tim. 1:5).
You do not win people to the Lord by condemning them and calling them names. This is why God says to speak with wisdom, grace, and love. Let the love of Christ flow through you so that the homosexuals can see true love and turn to Christ instead of away from Him.
Objections Answered
1) If you want to say homosexuality is wrong based on the O.T. laws, then you must still uphold all of the laws in Leviticus and Deuteronomy.
The Old Testament laws are categorized in three groups: the civil, the priestly, and the moral. The civil laws must be understood in the context of a theocracy. Though the Jewish nation in the Old Testament was often headed by a king, it was a theocratic system with the Scriptures as a guide to the nation. Those laws that fall under this category are not applicable today because we are not under a theocracy. The priestly laws dealing with the Levitical and Aaronic priesthoods, were representative of the future and true High Priest Jesus who offered Himself as a sacrifice on the cross. Since Jesus fulfilled the priestly laws, they are no longer necessary to be followed and are not now applicable. The moral laws, on the other hand, are not abolished. Because the moral laws are based upon the character of God. Since God's holy character does not change, the moral laws do not change either. Therefore, the moral laws are still in effect. In the New Testament we do not see a reestablishment of the civil or priestly laws. But we do see a reestablishment of the moral law. This is why we see New Testament condemnation of homosexuality as a sin but not with the associated death penalty.
2) That homosexuality is a sin if committed outside of a loving, committed, relationship. But a committed homosexual relationship is acceptable to God.This is a fallacious argument.
Homosexuality is never defined in the Bible in an acceptable behavior if it were practiced by individuals who had a loving relationship with each other. Homosexuality is always condemned. Homosexual acts are not natural acts and they are against God created order. As stated above in the article, male and female are designed to fit together -- in more ways than one. This is how God made us and he made as this way so that we could carry out his command of filling the earth with people. Homosexuality is an aberration from God's created order and makes it impossible to fulfill the command that God has given mankind. Whether or not a homosexual couple is committed to each other is irrelevant to the argument since love and feelings do not change moral truths. If a couple, not married to each other but married to someone else, commits adultery yet they are committed to loving each other, their sin is not excused. If homosexuality is made acceptable because the homosexual couple "loves" each other and are committed to each other, and by that logic we can say that couples of the same sex or even of different sexes who love each other and are committed to each other in a relationship automatically make that relationship morally correct. The problem is that love is used as an excuse to violate scripture. Second, it would mean that such things as ***** would be acceptable if the "couple" had a loving and committed relationship to each other. Third, the subjectivity of what it means to "love" and the "committed" to another person can be used to justify almost any sort of behavior.
3) That where homosexuality is mentioned in the Bible it is not how we relate to it in the 21st century. It meant something different to the people in Biblical times and has nothing to do with modern day homosexuality.
The four Scriptures listed above refute this idea. Let's look at what they say and see if there is some misunderstanding? The first scripture in Leviticus says that it is an abomination for a man to lie with another man as he would lie with a woman. Obviously this is referring to sexual relationship and it is condemned. The second scripture in Leviticus says the same thing. The third scripture in 1 Corinthians outright condemns homosexuality. And finally, Romans clearly describes a homosexual act as being indecent. There is no mistake about it, the view of homosexuality in the Old Testament as well as the New, is a very negative one. It is consistently condemned as being sinful. Whether or not people of the 21st-century think homosexuality is acceptable or not has absolutely no bearing on whether or not it is sinful before God. God exists and he is the standard of righteousness. Whether or not anyone believes this or believes that morality is a flowing and vague system of development over time, has no bearing on truth. God has condemned homosexuality as a sin in the Bible. It is a sin that needs to be repented of the same as any other sense and the only way to receive this forgiveness is through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ.
4) That the sin of Sodom was actually the sin of inhospitality.
This is a common error made by supporters of homosexuality. The problem is this explanation does not account for the offering of Lott's daughter to the men outside the home, a sinful act indeed, but one that was rejected by the men outside who desired to have relations with the two angels in Lot's home. Gen. 19:5 says, "and they called to Lot and said to him, 'Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us that we may have relations with them.'” Those men wanted to have sexual relations with the angels who appeared also as males. Does it make sense to claim that God destroyed two cities because the inhabitants weren't nice to visitors? If that were the case, then shouldn't God destroy every household that is rude to guests? Gen. 18:20 says that the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was "exceedingly grave." Not being hospitable to someone has never been considered an exceedingly grave sin, especially in the Bible. But, going against God's created order in violation of his command to fill in multiply the earth in the act of homosexuality, is an exceedingly grave sin. In fact, we know that it is exceedingly grave because in Romans we read about the judgment of God upon the homosexuals in that he gives them over to the depravity of their hearts and minds. This is a serious judgment of God upon the sinner because it means thatat the sinner will not become convicted of his or her sins and will not then repent. Without repentance there is no salvation and without salvation there is damnation. Therefore, the argument that Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because they were not hospitable, carries no validity.
____________________ 1. The word "homosexual" in the NASB version is the Greek aρσενοκοίτης (arsenokoites). It occurs two times in the New Testament. The KJV translates it as “abuser of (one’s) self with mankind” once, and “defile (one’s) self with mankind” once. 1 one who lies with a male as with a female, sodomite, homosexual. (Strong, J. (1996). The exhaustive concordance of the Bible : Showing every word of the test of the common English version of the canonical books, and every occurence of each word in regular order. (electronic ed.) (G733). Ontario: Woodside Bible Fellowship.) The 1901 ASV, the KJV, translate it as "abusers of themselves." The NASB and NKJV translate it as "homosexuals." The NIV as "homosexual offenders." The RSV as "sexual perverts."
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Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 8:57 pm
Yeah, I'm not gonna respond to this again. Just read the homosexuality thread if you have anything new to say.
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Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 4:25 pm
Macinacs for seths No days, the gay culture is becoming more pervious to our society. Where is Christianity now days is the most often asked question. Well I have got to say that Christianity is alive and well. But is the gay community and Christianity ever going to meet? Let me tell you, I believe that gays can be christian. I am proof of that. Not only am I a martyr for the Christian cause but I am a proclaimed Homosexual. Why, because thats how God created me. Most reading this will say that I blasphemy. But, I pose this question and Ask for anyone who response to this to please tell me. Where in the bible does it say that homosexuality is a sin? And who says that gays cannot be christian? One other thing I want to mention. Jesus commanded to love one another. If we are to love one another, then why as christians do we discriminate against others? I love all beings male, female, American, Mexican, Christian, Muslim, gay, or straight. Where is the love that we are suppose to as Christians show? xp Of course gays can be Christian. Eventually, when they become saved, their ability to be attracted to the same sex would probably just fade away with time. 3nodding
As Christians, it's our JOB to show love and compassion for those who are outside of God, so that we may draw them in with our lub. Showing love for others show them that the Lord that we worship is also a loving god. heart
And remember, just because we're Christians doesn't mean we're perfect. We're only saved by God's grace and mercy - not because of something we've done. As such, we were just as subjected to being outside of God as "they" are, so lets show some lub, kay? 3nodding I agree wiff you.
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Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:37 am
By definetion, a Christian is anyone who believes in God and Jesus as their savior. Christians are also all sinful. Is homosexuality a sin- I don't really have an answer to that yet. But if it is- do you not call the murderer a Christian and then exculde the homosexual? It happens, but it shouldn't. Especially if you believe people are born that way- which I do. Why would God condem them for the way he made them?
I know several gay Christians, all of whom are good people.
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Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 7:19 pm
I think that gay people can be christians. first of all, God loves all of us for who we are. Second of all, being gay is just part of who ever is gay. Third, if one can fully live out their lives in love of others and follow Jesus then there is no reason that a gay person cant be christian. Only thing is acceptance from the other members. But, if other members are christian they should have no problem accepting gay persons into their community of fellowship.
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Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 3:46 am
ChibiLi xp Of course gays can be Christian. Eventually, when they become saved, their ability to be attracted to the same sex would probably just fade away with time. 3nodding
Not really, no. neutral
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Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 8:31 pm
A Gay Christian huh? Well let me ask a question. Is there such a thing as a "Liar Christian" or a "Murderer Christian" or how about a "Blasphemer Christian"? Lets not forget that just because people embrace homosexuality as a lifestyle, its also a sin, just like all the others. And sure, all Christians embraced sin before they were saved, but afterward, they learned to stop because they love God.
John 14:15 "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments."
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Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 1:56 am
brad175 A Gay Christian huh? Well let me ask a question. Is there such a thing as a "Liar Christian" or a "Murderer Christian" or how about a "Blasphemer Christian"? Lets not forget that just because people embrace homosexuality as a lifestyle, its also a sin, just like all the others. And sure, all Christians embraced sin before they were saved, but afterward, they learned to stop because they love God. John 14:15 "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments." And how many murderers in prison now have become Born Again? And how often do you lie? Yet you are Christian?
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Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 7:34 am
There is a such thing as a gay Christian. There is a such things as a bi Christian. I dated a bi Christian. Being gay straight, lesbian bi or transgender does not mean you can't believe in God, I shouldn't mean that you can't believe in God. Remember, we are all sinners regardless of whether we are saved or not. Homosexuality is not the end all be all sin nor should it be considered as such. The unforgivable sin isn't homosexuality, suicide, murder etc but it is blasphemy of the holy spirit. So if you want to get all up in arms over gay Christians then you have some serious issues.
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Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 9:52 am
I don't see how a man saying "I think there's a divine creator" and "I like p***s" is mutually exclusive.
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Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 9:07 pm
of course gays can be christian...just like you can look up porn on the internet and still be a christian...a sin is a sin it doesn't make up who you are entirely.
hate the sin not the sinner
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