Much of the Religous right has gone too far...

[LittlePinky82]

Berezi

Initially I came back because I was kind of curious as to what you said/didn't say to me. Instead I find that you have started attacking me as a person, both me and my faith.

My reason for ending this discussion has nothing to do with my passion for the scripture. It has everything to do with the fact that we've repeated ourselves over and over, and that I'm about to get really snippy in this discussion towards you if I don't stop.

I'd prefer not to because I respect you.

I still have every right to stand up for my personal faith, however, and will do so. Because now there's no misunderstanding. You're attacking my beliefs.

LittlePinky82

If you're not a Jew then why do you follow the old covenant?

For the last time, it's the Old Testament that I follow, AS WELL AS THE NEW.

The Bible is a whole. I don't see any reason to only follow half, especially when the two halves don't contradict each other in intent.

But what do I depend on in the end for my salvation? Jesus, of course.

Quote:

And once again hon please for all things holy stop putting words in my mouth. I don't do it to you so I would, once again, like the same respect. Why is it so hard for you to do that? You obviously have no respect for myself since you continue to do things that quite frankly are disrespecting me such as putting words in my mouth.

It is so hard for me because of my living situation. My parents are deaf, foreign immigrants. Their understanding of English is minimal. Therefore, I judge everything they say based on tone and attitude. The literal words they say are only halfway significant. This has been ingrained in my brain since childhood. It's not easy to ignore.

But I do apologize for doing it nonetheless, because it really offends you. There's nothing else I can say except for sorry.

And as we'll see later in this post, you're doing the exact same thing to me.

Quote:

And for you to "be through with this" is quite frankly irresponsible and immature. You don't care about studying the scriptures or growing as a person of faith but staying in your own little world.

You got that bolded part based on an attitude I was conveying. I never said anywhere specifically that I didn't care about the scriptures. I don't think you disrespect me because of this misinterpretation. I only think you're doing what is natural: making a conjecture based on what information you've been given.

You are, however, gravely wrong. I care passionately about growing in my faith. I care passionately about studying the scriptures. I do not stay in my own little world. I'm one of the most social people you'll ever meet.

Not to mention, you have no knowledge of the trials I have gone through in the last year. If it were not for the faith I have in Jesus Christ and His salvation, redemption, peace, mercy, and everything that is beautiful about Him, I would not be here right now. I'd be in some insane asylum. I'd be nothing.

Quote:

Have you ever studied the scriptures by yourself or with other people and their view points or just your own type of people who believe like you and from hearing from other preachers and teachers who are of the same faith and do you stay in your own little bubble?

I study the scriptures a lot. I have since I was young. I love them and hold them dearly to my heart. They are the lamp unto my feet and the light unto my path. They are my spiritual armor. Without the scriptures, I'd be really confused.

You owe me an apology.

Because while I have misinterpreted your attitude on a subject, you have misinterpreted my entire faith.

Oh you mean like when you attacked me and my faith when you asked me what type of Christian I was? Hello, pot meet kettle. So I say we're even now. So you don't care about debating other people (in this conversation it's me) on the scriptures or etc. Nah. And once again you mean like when you previously in this dicussion questioned me and my faith? Sorry hon but take your own advice first before you give it out to other people. And I recommend you learn the difference between studying and reading the old testament and following it. As I have previously said you can study and read it all you want. I could care less really. Christian's don't follow it because of the new covenant. Jesus did follow the old testament because he was still bound by it. He didn't sacrifice himself yet for us so the new covenant hadn't happened yet. Get it?  

[LittlePinky82]

Cometh The Inquisitor

LittlePinky82

My statement stands.

No it doesn't. You have not once shown anywhere in the Gospels of Christ (since neither Moses or Paul are 'your savior', so we can't use anything that's not from Matthew, Mark, Luke and John) where it says that the New Covenant erases any of the Old Covenant. Give me a verse that states that we don't have to follow ceremonial law anymore and then, and only then, will your point 'stand'.

Luke 22:

20In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you."

Wow and this is from Jesus!  

[Berezi]

I thought I'd made it clear that I respect your faith, but apparently I haven't. I also thought I made it clear that I apologized for being harsh/unloving in my speech to you. Apparently I havent, otherwise you wouldn't have brought it up.

But the thing is, I do respect your faith in Jesus. I'm sorry I've acted in a way that makes you believe that I didn't.

There may be aspects of your viewpoints that I really don't like, but that doesn't depriciate from your love of Jesus. That's been my attitude from the beginning.

Admittedly, I didn't do so hot at conveying that, because I was more caught up in disliking your viewpoint than I was in showing you that I respect your faith. That was dumb. Sorry for that.  

[LittlePinky82]

Berezi

I thought I'd made it clear that I respect your faith, but apparently I haven't. I also thought I made it clear that I apologized for being harsh/unloving in my speech to you. Apparently I havent, otherwise you wouldn't have brought it up.

But the thing is, I do respect your faith in Jesus. I'm sorry I've acted in a way that makes you believe that I didn't.

There may be aspects of your viewpoints that I really don't like, but that doesn't depriciate from your love of Jesus. That's been my attitude from the beginning.

Admittedly, I didn't do so hot at conveying that, because I was more caught up in disliking your viewpoint than I was in showing you that I respect your faith. That was dumb. Sorry for that.

Well thank you for the apology and I'm sorry too. I hope in the future we can have better conversation's and talk more on other issues. I think in the whole discussion it's just how we view the OT. We both agree the old laws are obsolete because of Christ being the new covenant. I just personally don't agree that people use the old testament for their stance on issues no matter what that issue is. Especially if Jesus was quiet on it (that we know of).  

[Berezi]

LittlePinky82

Well thank you for the apology and I'm sorry too. I hope in the future we can have better conversation's and talk more on other issues. I think in the whole discussion it's just how we view the OT. We both agree the old laws are obsolete because of Christ being the new covenant. I just personally don't agree that people use the old testament for their stance on issues no matter what that issue is. Especially if Jesus was quiet on it (that we know of).

Which is understandable.

Initially the thing that bothered me was thinking that it was just plain old irrelevant to us as Christians, which isn't your stance on it. That was the only thing I meant to bring into question, and it shouldn't have escalated into something more.

But this should serve as a reminder for both of us: no matter how different the viewpoint may be, we shouldn't get so caught up in the differences that we don't respect each other as Christians.

And we have to be extra-careful on the internet. There's a strong lack of vocal tone, which isn't always the same as the printed tone.. (like, for example, there are truckloads of ways to say "I love you" and they all imply different things). The vocal tone knocks out some ambiguity there. And we don't have body language.  

[ioioouiouiouio]

LittlePinky82

Cometh The Inquisitor

No it doesn't. You have not once shown anywhere in the Gospels of Christ (since neither Moses or Paul are 'your savior', so we can't use anything that's not from Matthew, Mark, Luke and John) where it says that the New Covenant erases any of the Old Covenant. Give me a verse that states that we don't have to follow ceremonial law anymore and then, and only then, will your point 'stand'.

Luke 22:

20In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you."

Wow and this is from Jesus!

11 lines up

You have not once shown anywhere in the Gospels of Christ (since neither Moses or Paul are 'your savior', so we can't use anything that's not from Matthew, Mark, Luke and John) where it says that the New Covenant erases any of the Old Covenant.

 

[Siren of Saturn]

*wonders if i could jump in somewhere or if i would drown sad *

Although i read through the first page and that..i have quite a few things to say.  

[Berezi]

Siren of Saturn

*wonders if i could jump in somewhere or if i would drown sad *

Although i read through the first page and that..i have quite a few things to say.

Well, we're pretty much done....

Unless you've got a completely different issue you'd like to bring up. =D  

[Siren of Saturn]

Berezi

Siren of Saturn

*wonders if i could jump in somewhere or if i would drown sad *

Although i read through the first page and that..i have quite a few things to say.

Well, we're pretty much done....

Unless you've got a completely different issue you'd like to bring up. =D

Naw, thank you though smile I don't think i need to take out the stitches of something that is already disected fully and closed. *loves my mentality^_^*  

[jamesthelittle]

Jubel

The Religious Right has gone too far, IMO. When people like Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell become the unofficial spokesmen for Evangelicals and Fundamentalists... that's going too far. When Christians blindly defend every action and every decision of President Bush... it's gone too far. When the devastation wrought by Katrina is claimed to be God's judgment... it's gone too far. When we allow (or make advantageous use of) people's hatred (see many anti-homosexuality protests)...that's gone too far.
Every person is personally responsible for their decision to accept or reject Jesus. However, what Christian abiding in Christ would want to contribute to someone's rejection of Jesus?

If a believer were to shout in the ear of a non-believer "You are a sinner and without Jesus you will be doomed to an eternity in Hell!" repeatedly, and that person dies without accepting Jesus because they were fed up with that believer, how will that believer feel? Did they fulfill "the great commission"? Is God glorified? Did that believer contribute to the unbelief and ultimate rejection of Jesus?

That's why we're called to love others.... not beat 'em unconscious with a club and drag them into the kingdom of God.

As a minister I am disgusted at the things I have seen so called Christians do. I think you have a point. There are many who have went to far. Some of your examples could be off. An Example is Hurricane Katrina. Could God have sent it to wipe out sinners? Yes, He is God. He could have done that. He has done that in the past. Do I think He did? I don't know! But you are right. We do need to have love and compassion. But we still need to be bold and share our faith and our beliefs. That though to some can seem judgmental. But I agree with some of what you said. Some Christians have went too far!  

[iRTsuki]

Blckpanthr13

LRD_nick

So you guys are saying,CHRISTIAITY IS THE ONLY WAY TO HEAVEN!
YOU DONT THIS NEXT YOU ARE DOOMED IN HELL!

Your wrong and your brain washed,you have been taught been wrong teachings.
Your the one who has a chance of bein doom,we are no better then that man in jail at this moment.
We are humen,I know people who dont beleave in Christ and God and they have a chance of goin to heaven.

How god judges it is how you play your cards!
Meaning how you act and do things.

stare ....
John 3:36
"Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."

John 14:6
"Jesus answered, 'I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one come to the Father except through me.'"

Yes it is the way to get to Heaven, but our job as Christians is to spread the Gospel and the good news of our Savior, but by loving and not accusing or "condemning" others. Get the facts straight before you go accusing people of being brainwashed.

qft! even tho im a non believer this is somthing that i believe any christian would do, tho thats not always the case, i have come face to face with all sorts of people and some who claim to be christian can sometimes be filled with hate, its sad but fortunatley there are good ones out there.  

[Gambol]

Cometh The Inquisitor

11 lines up

You have not once shown anywhere in the Gospels of Christ (since neither Moses or Paul are 'your savior', so we can't use anything that's not from Matthew, Mark, Luke and John) where it says that the New Covenant erases any of the Old Covenant.

Not to get in on this argument (because I don't like debating confused ), but I would like to add in a verse or two so you guys can take it and run with it:

Matthew 5

17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

This is something valid, so please avoid yelling at me. I'm not pushing this one way or another. I'm just saying: This is in the Bible, you should look at it.

I am out.


Added note: What is the Old Covenant?
Look in Genesis, would you?
Yes, I'm talking to you, Pinky. Lay down the Old Covenant next to the New Covenant. Please present here when you're done.
Thanks.  

[The Noble Protoman.exe]

Indeed it has. Such religions as secular humanism, which holds no practice, is benefitting from just existing.