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 Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 10:40 am
Quote: But if that were true, then no human could ever get into Heaven. "For all have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God." If we can be forgiven, who are you to say Angels can't? I am quotign what God has said. Those in hell. HUman, ANgel, whatever, will curse His name forever. There is no redemption for those already burning. It is the punishment. God has told us what we must do to obtain perpetual bliss. It only makes since to have the exact opposite if we choose not to take His offer. Adam and Eve lived in a paradise on earth, and then Adam sinned and they were cast into a chnaged world that was the opposit. The world worked agianst them instead of with them now. Quote: Maybe you forget, but different people translate the Bible different ways. So that's your translation and, thus, your beliefs. "There will be wailing, and nashing of teeth" Pain, torture, perpetualy so. God is Light. Hell is as an existence with out God, there fore there is no light, no illumination, no release, no hope. Seems only logicle to interpret it this way. Quote: I firmly believe that God wouldn't send you to Hell for loving someone, anyone, even if it's a "fake love." I mean, if that were the way of it, there are a lot of married couples that are going to Hell, because they weren't each other's "true love," even though they are following God's laws by remaining married. There was an instance where God killed a man for that written in the Bible, you said. Only one man, though? Sounds like an exception to the rule to me. Or, possibly, it was a story to keep people from disobeying God. You misenterprit what I say. I never said he woudl send you to hell. I siad he would let you punish your self. I never siad any one was killed for that. I'll ask for the second time, don't put words in my mouth.
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Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 11:46 am
Pyrotechnic Oracle Quote: But if that were true, then no human could ever get into Heaven. "For all have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God." If we can be forgiven, who are you to say Angels can't? I am quotign what God has said. Those in hell. HUman, ANgel, whatever, will curse His name forever. There is no redemption for those already burning. It is the punishment. God has told us what we must do to obtain perpetual bliss. It only makes since to have the exact opposite if we choose not to take His offer. Adam and Eve lived in a paradise on earth, and then Adam sinned and they were cast into a chnaged world that was the opposit. The world worked agianst them instead of with them now. Okay, could you get me a Bible verse on that? Because I don't remember the verse that says, "Demons are stuck in Hell. Forever. Permenantly." In fact, it seems quite strange that that would be the case, considering that, oh, Satan was in the garden of Eden? If he's stuck in Hell, how'd he do that? And if he can get out of Hell to Earth, who says he can't be forgiven and let back into Heaven? Not to mention, God can do anything. So He can forgive demons, and He can make a Hell where human souls can't escape, but demons can. Quote: Quote: Maybe you forget, but different people translate the Bible different ways. So that's your translation and, thus, your beliefs. "There will be wailing, and nashing of teeth" Pain, torture, perpetualy so. God is Light. Hell is as an existence with out God, there fore there is no light, no illumination, no release, no hope. Seems only logicle to interpret it this way. No where does it say that He is light. He is Love. But I have never seen nor heard that He is light. In fact, if He were light, why would he say, "Let there be light."? Let there be me? That doesn't make sense. Quote: Quote: I firmly believe that God wouldn't send you to Hell for loving someone, anyone, even if it's a "fake love." I mean, if that were the way of it, there are a lot of married couples that are going to Hell, because they weren't each other's "true love," even though they are following God's laws by remaining married. There was an instance where God killed a man for that written in the Bible, you said. Only one man, though? Sounds like an exception to the rule to me. Or, possibly, it was a story to keep people from disobeying God. You misenterprit what I say. I never said he woudl send you to hell. I siad he would let you punish your self. I never siad any one was killed for that. I'll ask for the second time, don't put words in my mouth. "You would regret that desicion. Trust me. Hell is a place of eternal darkness, you are perpetualy blind. You hear those aroudn you but you can not touch them, nore speak to them. You are in argony, un ebbing, forever. You would not be with the one you love in eternal agony, you would be alone with no one to pay you mind other then the devil's angels, and the things they will do to you are far from loving. " That there is saying that He would send you to Hell, and then describing Hell. It says, "Wailing and gnashing of teeth," and, again, I never disputed that Hell is hellish (pardon the pun). But He never said that He is a being of pure light. In fact, He has no physical form, so how could He be light or anything of the sort? Where does He say there will be anyone around you? Where does He say that you can hear anything, or feel anything, or not feel anything? I'll ask you for at least the second time, don't put words into God's mouth. I never claim that my ideas are the way things -are-, just the way they might be.
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Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 11:48 am
Pyrotechnic Oracle You misenterprit what I say. I never said he woudl send you to hell. I siad he would let you punish your self. I never siad any one was killed for that. I'll ask for the second time, don't put words in my mouth. And I'm fairly certain you are the one who mentioned a story in the Bible in which someone was sent to Hell for "loving" the wrong person.
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Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 12:00 pm
I.Am Pyrotechnic Oracle You misenterprit what I say. I never said he woudl send you to hell. I siad he would let you punish your self. I never siad any one was killed for that. I'll ask for the second time, don't put words in my mouth. And I'm fairly certain you are the one who mentioned a story in the Bible in which someone was sent to Hell for "loving" the wrong person. i believe that was me... anyway, i have a problem with heaven, honestly- i mean, how exactly does it work? eternal bliss sounds good, but in reality, HOW does it work? is it simply some altered state of mind in which nothing matters, like some sort of celestial happy pill? i don't like to think it is- i would hope that heaven is much like earth, allowing concious thought and free will. the bliss would come from being free of death and physical pain, but i do not believe that we would be free of worries.
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Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 12:07 pm
I.Am Pyrotechnic Oracle It does say it Iam. God will not allow unclean things in his house. The unclean thing is sin. Angels sin only once and are cast out. The Bible also says that those in Hell curse God's name forever. This includes fallen angels. But if that were true, then no human could ever get into Heaven. "For all have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God." If we can be forgiven, who are you to say Angels can't? Pyrotechnic Oracle Its all explaind in the Bible Iam. I am not stating what I beilive, I'm stating what the Bible says. God will not force anything. He inspires and influences. YOu have every right to tell him to go screw himself. The problem is your forgeting who gave you that right. You owe Him...alot. But, you have free will. As I said before, God knows all. If he thinks you should be with one person and not another it is for good reason. And that person will most assuredly love you back. Maybe you forget, but different people translate the Bible different ways. So that's your translation and, thus, your beliefs. Quote: A fake love, Ser, as you put it, is a very bad fate, I know form personle experince. God was calling me to wait a bit longer, and I said screw that and I started goign out with a girl who turned out didn't love me and was just using me. I know what he wanted me to wait for now. I've been the happiest man on earth since I met Anita. I know for a fact that this love is real because so many things are working to my favor, as opposed to so many things that worked against me before. Some times, however, God will let you have your fake love and not interfere, and let you punish yourself in the end. I firmly believe that God wouldn't send you to Hell for loving someone, anyone, even if it's a "fake love." I mean, if that were the way of it, there are a lot of married couples that are going to Hell, because they weren't each other's "true love," even though they are following God's laws by remaining married. There was an instance where God killed a man for that written in the Bible, you said. Only one man, though? Sounds like an exception to the rule to me. Or, possibly, it was a story to keep people from disobeying God. how it went, correct me if i am wrong, i'm having trouble finding it exactly, so i'm going by my bad memory, was that there was this guy who was in love with a woman, i believe they were married. now, God had a plan for that man and another woman. He told the guy to leave his current love and have sex with...i think his sister-in-law or his brother's sister in law, something like that. anyway, he was doing it, but then he realized that he was being unfaithful to the one he really loved, so he pulled out. God got pissed for not carrying out his will, and killed him.
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Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 1:48 pm
Demons and ANgels can interact on the Earthly plain, and Demons and Satan can access the "office" of God. A meetign place of sorts out side of Heaven. No, no demon or unrepentent sinner has ever set foot in Heaven. And no sinne rin hell will ever repent. They are there for punishment, not reformation. John 8:12 --Light of the world Mt 18:8, 25:41,46, Mk 3:29, 2 Thess 1:9, Heb 6:2, Jude 7-- All eternity 2 Pet. 2:17; Jude 13--eternal darkness 2 Pet 2:12--No repetence Some interesting sites http://www.atruechurch.info/hell.htmlhttp://www.layhands.com/WillSinnersBurnForever.htmhttp://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ128.HTM http://www.rationalchristianity.net/hell.htmlAnd you still misenterprited what I said. No, that did not say He would send you to hell. I was describing what you will experience. I would ask you to read back and quote where I said God sent some one to hell for loving a woman that God told him not to, but Ser has come forward. *Sigh* however, I feel this has gone on long enough. Its as you said, people interpret things diffrently.
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Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 3:11 pm
divineseraph how it went, correct me if i am wrong, i'm having trouble finding it exactly, so i'm going by my bad memory, was that there was this guy who was in love with a woman, i believe they were married. now, God had a plan for that man and another woman. He told the guy to leave his current love and have sex with...i think his sister-in-law or his brother's sister in law, something like that. anyway, he was doing it, but then he realized that he was being unfaithful to the one he really loved, so he pulled out. God got pissed for not carrying out his will, and killed him. I think I remember the basic story you are talking about, but if it's the one I think it is, you are quite confused; It was one of the Kings of Israel, David I think, liked one girl and got tricked into marrying her sister. But I don't remember him ever dying because of it. Pyro: There you go again, stating things as though they are fact! Verses: John 8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life. That's metaphor. Like "I am the bread of life. He who comes to me shall not hunger." Was Jesus actually bread? No. Is God actually bread? No. Light and bread represent Him well. But God =/= bread or light. Mathew 18:8, 25: 41, 46 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast [them] from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire... Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:... And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.... I never disputed that the fire was everlasting. I also never disputed that humans who die in sin go there for eternity. Where, however, does it say that the -demons- go there for eternity? It says it was prepared for them. Does that mean they have to stay there all the time? No. Mark 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation: So blasphemers go to Hell. Actually, it says they are in danger of going to Hell, which is different. Not to mention that, if we are to take that at face value, then anyone who has ever blasphemed in any way cannot be forgiven. That includes you by your own admittance, I am fairly certain (Hangout thread, I think?). However, I don't believe in an unforgivable sin (Possibly excluding suicide, but that's a special cirumstance; If they survived it, it would be forgivable, and who am I to say they can't repent right before dying?). And as for the part mentioning eternal damnation, see above. 2 Thessalonians 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; Again, not seeing anything in reference to demons, and since you can't read what I type I'll say it again, I do believe that Hell is eternal and human souls cannot leave it.. Hebrews 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. Eternal judgement could easily be translated many ways. It could mean eternal meaning eternity, outside of time; But doesn't mean that it's a permenant judgment. That just means that God made the judgement after you entered eternity. Jude 7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Hey! See above. Already know that human souls dying in sin go to Hell, "burning," metaphorically, for all eternity. 2 Peter 2:17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever. ...Metaphor, ever heard of it? Jude 13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever. Ditto. Spirits don't have eyes, so how can there be darkness in a spiritual realm? 2 Peter 2:12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption; That says nothing about eternal damnation. It also says nothing about them not repenting, or not being able to repent. In fact, if you go a little farther up to 2 Peter 2:4: Quote: ="2 Peter 2:4"]For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast [them] down to hell, and delivered [them] into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; If they are being held for judgement, does that not mean that they can still return to Heaven? Doesn't that mean that they have not yet been judged in either way? Please read my entire post this time instead of skimming it and then making a reply based off of what you think you saw. Please.
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Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 4:48 pm
Its matter of interpritation. I highly disagree with most of what was written, and also saw no use for that bit of snerkyness in your post. But, oh well.
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Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 5:29 pm
Pyrotechnic Oracle Its matter of interpritation. I highly disagree with most of what was written, and also saw no use for that bit of snerkyness in your post. But, oh well. It's "snarkiness," and I'm sorry, but I really don't care for the arrogant, "My opinion is absolute," attitude in most of your posts. Maybe I'm out of place for saying that, but that's how I feel. Sorry.
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Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 6:50 pm
It was Jacob who got tricked into marrying Leigha instead of Rachel and had to work another 7 years for their father in order to marry Rachel. Joseph and Benjamin were the only sons of Rachel and were therefore Jacob's favorite sons, especially Joseph.
David sent Bathsheba's husband to the front lines in battle so that he would die and David would have her all for himself.
If the woman you want to marry is married, God probably doesn't want you to marry her since it would involve getting rid of him by a divorce or murder, unless you're patient and wait for him to die. If you kill someone to be with the woman you love and then never repent, you most likely will find that God is not happy with you.
It was up to the brother-in-law to marry a widower to take care of her at that point, I remember that much. It was his duty to marry his brother's wife should his brother die. Something like that. Is that what you're talking about?
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Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 7:41 am
lymelady It was Jacob who got tricked into marrying Leigha instead of Rachel and had to work another 7 years for their father in order to marry Rachel. Joseph and Benjamin were the only sons of Rachel and were therefore Jacob's favorite sons, especially Joseph. David sent Bathsheba's husband to the front lines in battle so that he would die and David would have her all for himself. If the woman you want to marry is married, God probably doesn't want you to marry her since it would involve getting rid of him by a divorce or murder, unless you're patient and wait for him to die. If you kill someone to be with the woman you love and then never repent, you most likely will find that God is not happy with you. It was up to the brother-in-law to marry a widower to take care of her at that point, I remember that much. It was his duty to marry his brother's wife should his brother die. Something like that. Is that what you're talking about?
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Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 12:16 pm
shhhhhhhh, don't tell them ninja
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Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 12:34 pm
I.Am Pyrotechnic Oracle Its matter of interpritation. I highly disagree with most of what was written, and also saw no use for that bit of snerkyness in your post. But, oh well. It's "snarkiness," and I'm sorry, but I really don't care for the arrogant, "My opinion is absolute," attitude in most of your posts. Maybe I'm out of place for saying that, but that's how I feel. Sorry. i'm pretty sure everyone does that sometimes
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Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 1:46 am
You bet I'm a Bible-thumper. I am a Biblical Christian. I believe the Bible is the absolute, inerrant, inspired Word of God. I believe that every statement in it has value for those who look for it. Do not bother trying to change my mind on this. You will not win.
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Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 6:59 am
Payne-sempai You bet I'm a Bible-thumper. I am a Biblical Christian. I believe the Bible is the absolute, inerrant, inspired Word of God. I believe that every statement in it has value for those who look for it. Do not bother trying to change my mind on this. You will not win.
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