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 Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:48 am
*applauds Camo*
Bravo for actually providing a quote to back a claim based on faith, even if it's not your own. That's the way a proper debate should be handled. 3nodding
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Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 12:35 pm
People will still be with their partners even if they aren't allowed to get married. They should at least be provided with the same legal benefits as a married couple if they live their lives acting as such.
...that's just my opinion though. (obviously. blaugh )
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Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 1:43 pm
kuntrykid Brilliant Insanity @kuntrykid:
so, let me get this straight. what you're saying is that because someone is homosexual, they are incapable of love?
is that what i'm understanding?
because if it is, i think someone seriously needs to slap you.
how could you even think that someone is incapable of love, no matter who they love?
love is love is love is love is ####### LOVE.
it doesn't matter who someone loves.
it doesn't matter why.
it just is. it's a scientific fact.
you are making no sense whatsoever. I'm saying that I believe it is not possible for a male to love another male and a female to love another female. Also, you're saying that a child would like to marry their parents? My response to yusono covers my beliefs on the scientific fact part. but why not? how is it not possible?
and i don't believe my above post said anything about a child marrying their parents.
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Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 2:18 pm
Oh my goodness! all this homosexual crap just shows how stupid so many people are these days! The reason male and female exist is because one cannot be a complete person without the other. Two of the same together is just two halves, two of the opposite is one whole person. There are so many facts that both scientific AND religous show that homosexuality is wrong. Somebody said that some entire species of animals are all female and yet they live on, no that is not true. Some animals have had disorders that made them gay, and they were not able to reproduce. And even in cases where all that was left of a species had become homsexual, they died out and went extinct! The world was designed in a way that only a male and a female can truly become one complete person in love.
Yet another piece evidence; Jesus himself said that marriage is meant to be between only a man and a woman, and for it to be otherwise is an abomination.
Some of you are under the crazy impression that some people are born homosexual and there for cannot change, this is a lie. There have been many people who have been normal and went gay, as well as gays who have become the way God intended. You want to deny this? Well look at yourself. Could you change your orientation if you wanted to? I know I could, but I choose not to because it would be wrong. You say some people can only have true love in a gay form? No, that is not true love, they only think they are truly in love because they want to be. I have had many heterosexual relationships with girls and thought they were my one true love, but it turned out I was wrong in the end.
I could go on and on about this, but I'm afraid I don't have the time at the moment, so I stop here for now.
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Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 2:30 pm
Goldfish-Queen how is 'like' a chemical process, but love isn't
love IS a chemical process.
neurologists have defined that.
depression is also a chemical process.
what do you think love is if it isn't a chemical process? The snack that smiles back.
Goldfish don't bounce.
A person is not his body or brain. The body and the brain is a tool, and the chemical processes demonstrate the feelings of the soul which is not of any physical being such as molecules, cells, etc. A soul is a complex mystical being that is not part of nature. The parts of you that are seen by man are your physical traits which are completely seperate from your spiritual self that controlls them. Think of it this way, your body is like a car, and your soul is the driver which is you. You are the driver, not the car. It is hard to understand, but a soul is not limited to the physical world, a soul is something that does not perish, it is there even after death. People are not puppets controlled by nature, they have free will to do as they wish despite what nature tells them.
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Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 3:01 pm
 wow...
species that are all one sex HAVENT died out.
check your facts.
example one.
the whiptail lizard of New Mexico
"In 15 of the Cnemidophorus species there are no males. They reproduce without fertilization, a process known as parthenogenesis of "virgin birth". Parthenogenesis is well known in lower animals, such as aphids,bees, and Daphnia but is rare in vertebrates. The offspring of parthenogenic lizards are clones, identical to the mother.
There are some advantages to a parthenogenic lifestyle:
* All members of your species can lay eggs and reproduction is more efficient
* Good mutations are passed on more efficiently in clones than in sexual species
* You don't waste a lot of time and energy searching for a mate (this might not be true in this species, since the females do pair up)
One of the surprising things about unisexual whiptail reproduction is that a courtship ritual is still required even though there is only one sex. Unisexual whiptails pair up. In the courtship ritual one female takes the part of a male, while the other takes the role of a female. Later the 2 lizards switch roles. The switch is caused by hormones: estrogen promotes female behavior; progesterone stimulates male behavior. The mating ritual is required for survival of the species: without it few eggs are released (ovulation)."
http://members.aol.com/Attic21/CreatureofDay/whip.html
all females, no males, and they reproduce MORE EFFICIENTLY than species with males and females.
they're BETTER
and look, they still THRIVE and they're not dead.
shocking no? For it's always been just me.
Being alone and unwanted
Now my goldfish it that only one
that truely cares.
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Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 3:15 pm
I'm just gonna throw this out there for consideration... Is it possible for God to change his mind? Even if he originally said, "Hey, I don't like gays, cuz they can't reproduce," does that mean he still feels that way? We can't claim to know what God thinks, of course. All we can go on is a pile of text written by mankind several thousand years ago.
Just a thought.
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Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 3:59 pm
Agent X Sora Yet another piece evidence; Jesus himself said that marriage is meant to be between only a man and a woman, and for it to be otherwise is an abomination. .... :/ Wrong. As I've already pointed out in my last post. It amazes me how many said Christians don't ever read the whole Bible. :/ It's barely bigger than a Harry Potter book, which many 1o year olds finish in a few weeks.
No where in the new testament does it say the homosexuality is wrong. And I've read it through the bible at least 4 times. The new testament even more than that.
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Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 4:43 pm
Agent X Sora Oh my goodness! all this homosexual crap just shows how stupid so many people are these days!
Way to insult me, and almost everyone else in this forum. As well as a large majority of people. Very Christian of you.
Quote: Some of you are under the crazy impression that some people are born homosexual and there for cannot change, this is a lie. There have been many people who have been normal and went gay, as well as gays who have become the way God intended.
@Bold: Proof please.
@Rest: They are suppressing their real feelings. That's why they end up going off having sex with men behind their wife's back. And it's also very unhealthy. Besides that, what gives anyone the right to tell someone else that what they feel is wrong?
Quote: You want to deny this? Well look at yourself. Could you change your orientation if you wanted to? I know I could, but I choose not to because it would be wrong.
@Bold: No. I'm homosexual.
@Rest: I doubt you could. I can't see someone who is so strongly against homosexuality sleeping with another man. Do you find men attractive?
~ I Love Tommy ~ Quote: You say some people can only have true love in a gay form? No, that is not true lov, they only think they are truly in love because they want to be. I have had many heterosexual relationships with girls and thought they were my one true love, but it turned out I was wrong in the end.
@Bold: How would you know?
@Rest: How is loving a woman who wasn't your true love same as loving a man who is?
~ I Love Tommy ~
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Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 5:52 pm
Agent X Sora Yet another piece evidence; Jesus himself said that marriage is meant to be between only a man and a woman, and for it to be otherwise is an abomination. evidence? there is no substantial proof of this happening, other than a thousand-year old book.
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Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 5:12 pm
LittleDarkWarrior16 Yeah where do you stand? I am so tired of people discriminating against them. I am not a lesbian or bi but I just stand for equality. I also think it's bs that guys are like "Oh hot lesbians are ok but fags are dumb," sorry if you arent down with the language but seriously who gives a flying damn they are people let them get married it wont devalue a thing they are people who love eachother get over it and people that say that they will cheat more than heterosexuals are stupid it happens in all relationships it shouldnt but it does and also people who say they intentially spread disease (yes people say that) thats dumb you cant even do a study on that no one will admit to that it happens on accident but no one would do that there thats my view whats yours im bi, and i think that gays/lesbians should have every right to be in love and be respected... just as straight ppl are
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Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 9:40 pm
Zorlock Darksoul I'm just gonna throw this out there for consideration... Is it possible for God to change his mind? Even if he originally said, "Hey, I don't like gays, cuz they can't reproduce," does that mean he still feels that way? We can't claim to know what God thinks, of course. All we can go on is a pile of text written by mankind several thousand years ago. Just a thought.
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Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 3:35 am
kuntrykid Circinus rolleyes Let them get married, who are we to judge?
To Kuntrykid:
Well if it's not meant for the whole then it obviously something that is unnecessary for all humans as a whole. So, according to your logic, to be fair all we should forfeit the right to get married since we all know that refusing someone something that does not effect us in a negative way is prejudice and oppressive. Also, remember this: "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." Your thoughts violate the very foundations that my country was founded on by denying someone the right to have the one thing that could make them happier then they are. No, because if everyone lived in a country that's similar to USA we wouldn't all die out. If the whole world went homosexual we would. No we wouldn't, think about it If we all went to be gay or lesbien there would be groups of people who go against that and be strait
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Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 9:05 am
I'm straight but I think gay people should be allowed to marry..it's as if people aren't allowing them to love each other..of course they can love each other, they don't have to be straight to be in love..
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Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 1:27 pm
Camouflaged Most people with the biblical view that debate on the morality of homosexuality, use this verse in the Old Testament... Leviticus Chapter Eighteen, Verse Twenty-two "And with a man you shall not lie with as a man lies with a woman; it is an abomination". But they often forget. By their beliefs, they also believe that by the power and saving grace of the sacrifice of God Almighty's son, Jesus Christ, the old covenant was done away with.
The old covenant is what Christians refer to as the Laws of Moses (Not to be confused with the Ten Commandments). Many Christians today believe that because of Jesus' sacrifice, and the symbolic tearing of the holy cloth in the temple (the one that separated the Holy of Holies with the outer court; Note: the Holy of Holies was the innermost part of the tabernacle/temple where it is said the spirit of God himself resided and only the high priest could enter once a year) at his time of death, the old traditions and laws were done away with. No longer need they offer yearly sacrifices or pay the 10% first fruits of tithe...etc.
Now, we've established that the old laws for Christians are now null and void and we should live by the teachings of the New Testament. (Which DOES support the Ten Commandments, so those would be the only ones still followed from the Old Testament).
The verse about the 'sin' of homosexuality is from the Old Testament. So, we have therefore concluded that it, also, is null and void.
So then, let us see what the Bible actually has to say about love in the New Testament. First Corinthians Chapter Thirteen If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.
4 Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant 5 or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; 6 it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. 7 Love accepts all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
8 Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. 11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways. 12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.
13 So now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.
(Note: The numbers are the numbers of the verses)
So, that is what love is from the biblical perspective.
One word that really stands out here is the word all. Verse 7: "Love accepts all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things."
Now, I'm pretty sure we can agree that the definition of 'all' means everything, everyone....all. Not some, not just the people/things you say. All.
Also note the "Love accepts all things..." That is pretty clear in and of itself.
If you go around proclaiming to believe and support the Bible, you must believe ALL (there's our word!) of it. Not just the parts that are appealing to you.
So, looks like God himself said it...all can love.
Annnnnnd...before anyone says, "Oh well, that's what YOU believe it says... blah, blah..." I've not once stated here MY point of view. I've only stated the facts of the Christian faith and actual text from the Bible. Look it up for yourself if you don't believe it.
The entire old testament was not done away with. For example, Romans 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean. Romans14:20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offense. These verses repeal the "unclean meat" law. There is no verse repealing Leviticus 18:22 And before anyone says the "all things are pure" part, homosexuality is an action, not a thing. Also, of course all people are capable of love! All people are capable of homosexuality and heterosexuality too! I believe people are naturally heterosexual and, as I have had to state many times, homosexuality is a choice.
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