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 Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 12:29 pm
you took every oportunity to be rude and throw in a personal remark against me. You were the first one to be rude, and very rude at that. Then you complain that we follow suite to a much smaller degree. I will continue to repost this untill you stop trying to say that I started this, becuase you did, as has been shown above.
I am not going to clean up my post becuase, as said, I was repsonding to your post. Whenever I reply to your rudeness you call me rude. If you ddint want to me to reply to your post saying that you think I started this rudeness, then I would not have gone back and proved that you clearly did.
just because I dont use perfect spelling or grammar on the internet doesnt mean that you are correct and I am not, so you may as well stop pointing it out at this point.
I am following common curtousy, you went on and on and on about how you thought I was the rude one, so, I had every right to reply to it.
and yes, no one should be stating beleif as fact. . you beleive that science is true, and you cannot prove that it is. . your entire arugment is based on science being true, and since you cannot prove that this world is real, this argument is open ended, and it is possible otherkins exist, becuase it hasnt been proven without making any assumptions or going on "beleifs" that they dont or do.
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Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 3:13 pm
Haha, ******** district controlled computers can't filter for s**t. Dragonic Quote: Yes, I said "Resurrection", what about it? You brushed him off. Brushed “who” off? This is Resurrection, that is who. Remember him now, if not, simply scroll up the last few pages till you recognize his avatar again, then look at the breif discussion you two had. Only if you want, otherwise we're dropping this bit of our discussion. DragonicFlames I wrote this in a journal last night at 10:55. Things may have changed since then, but I’m still going to post this anyway: To clear up all the crap: I’m sick and tired of people bastardizing and manipulating and putting words in my mouth that I didn’t say and basically taking it to mean an extreme. And that’s crap. It’s done so that they can make their argument more “sound” than mine if they just mess around with what I’ve been saying the ENTIRE time. So here’s everything I’ve stated all nice and neat and any further bastardization will result in me specifically quoting this. And it will probably cut down an the time that I’m on here. Yes, I think we've all been doing this. We=You lapis probably the guild captain and I. ...maaaaayyyybe Sin. Dragonic 1) “You insulted everyone else first.” And I am not going to get involved in this cat fight. Dragonic 2) “Df’s fallacy science crap” Final thing I’m saying on it: Science basically is the truth on Earth. What science say is, is and what it doesn’t say is, isn’t is. Science doesn’t believe in religion, morals, or beliefs. Why can I discuss about otherkin? Aside from the fact I was making sure that everyone knew they were talking complete theory, and aside that I already know the science isn’t complete and can’t explain everything. This discussion can be considered to be like an open ended hypothesis discussion. The whole “what if” scenario. This is why DF could and did use a purely scientifically point of view. However, I only brought it up to make sure that everyone, guild leader, dorian, psychelapis, sin-sin and whomever else wanted to discuss this knew that it was purely theoretical and doesn’t exist in “science” world of earth. No one should be stating a belief as a fact. Christians do it and we all b***h and moan about them. So basically, this means you are not allowed to use the scientific point of view, since you "made sure" of what you were using it for, correct? (no) Dragonic 3) “Blah, Blah, Original form, blah” Yeah, I'm dropping this since it seems you've taken it up with Sin. I could however point out how what you've said means there is nothing, souls, astral realm, afterlife, or god, but I think lapis basically said it already. Dragonic 4) “You haven’t disproven otherkin” Yeah, this is discussed elsewere (later). *ignores commenting so that it would get him involved in the cat fight about rudeness* Dragonic I’m sick and tired, very tired of all of it. I’m tired to the point of I am not going to post with emotion at all. I’m a very passionate person, and when I get into debates, my passion for my points are always very apparent. But the whole way you keep changing what I’ve said, manipulating it, and basically using it as if I was “picking” on every person in the world specifically, is boring and tiring to me. I shouldn’t have to spend an hour on the computer trying to correct everything you misinterpret only to have to do it again. Right back at you. Dragonic I’m tired. So consider from now on, every post, reply or comment in a flat, monotone voice. So if you get insulted, angry, etc, don’t blame me. It’s all you, for feeling that way. Its about time you caught up to me. Dragonic Quote: to get astral information about if otherkins were real, you would simply have to project and go look at people's energy. . otherkins dont look or feel the same. . if you could find an honest person who was claiming to be otherkin and really was, they astrally look different, and you can often tell from their energy when they are just in their body and are not aware ofyou looking at them. .so arent faking it or affecting the astral with their mind to deceive you. . Everyone has a different wave of energy. So because I go to someone else who claims to be otherkin doesn’t matter if I see another type or form of energy. Everyone has a different amount and a different color. First time I've seen that brought up here. Hm.... Dragonic Quote: well, the veil, also supposedly, again. . theory. . is an energy structure. . so, when/if the structure is taken down, the energy will break down, the veil will start to dissapate, and more and more as it dissapates the astral will merge more with the phyiscal. . So it will basically disappear. I think the law of the conservation of energy would have something to say about that. But since that’s an “earth” term and I’m not allowed to use that as an example, I guess you would just ignore that. Yes, that the energy is changed and goes elsewere. You twisted her words/put words in her mouth to make her say that it just disappears. An idea I like is that the 'energy' that makes up 'the viel' will go into smoothing out the transition and changing of the 'laws' of both worlds, so that one doesn't simply take over the other with its functions/laws, and such. Thats just the one I perfer the most for an explaination, not really saying I beleive it. *ignores more cat-fight related content* *continues to ignore more catfight related content* Dragonic Quote: Basically, to discuss magic we have to assume magic is real. To do this we have to accept that not "everything" is a hallucination. Meaning if enough people (and there seems to be) can see otherkin, then that means they are likely to be real. To deny that, you basically have to deny magic is real period. And you can't, because that would mean entering the discussion was redundant for you. Reestablishing the bastardization of my science point. Not really, I'm basterdizing you. Dragonic Quote: So, me saying something positive like 'congradulations" and saying you are not an idiot is bad then? I'll keep that in mind At the time, it sounded like you were insulting me. Alright then, another misunderstanding. For future reference, I either am swearing, or use a "witty" *cough*lame*cough* thing like "[sarcasm][/sarcasm]" to make it obvious that I am making an insult. Often, it just comes off that way I suppose, but this is something you can try to judge that against from now on. Dragonic Quote: At what point did I mention the future in that? I was talking about the idea of there being an original form. And you even went to say you realised what I was talking about. I didn't misdirect. May I quote it? I'll quote your exact quote for you. And here it is: dragonicflames Quote: You've basically said that we can't define what the original form is by using a metaphor from this world. So, assuming your metaphor is actually accurate, that still means there is some level that would be the original form. Congrats, you didn't disprove anything. Metaphor? I wasn't using a metaphor to describe the future. See first we are talking about the future and then you jump onto original form? What? No wonder you're confused. I don't jump randomly to different topics. Multiverse is how I see the future. Original form = Oxymoron. Please reread what I was saying about the original form. Now, in the quote you cited from what I posted, there is no mention of the future. If you would like to go back cite a larger amount of words that covers were I mention the future, then that changes the subject of this. Basically you didn't include any parts that had me mention the future. (this is a waste of space/time/effort) Dragonic Quote: By what you've said, you've simply givin logic for people cannot know what the original form is. But deny this. We had to start, no matter how you get into it philosophically or logically, the is something that would be the equivilent of what we are saying the original form should be. Number 3) Addresses this. Not really. Since we've established now that "number 3" is now irrelevent to the current context. Dragonic Quote: You seem to be more interested in questioning things. So if you want to be as you say you are, then you find them. As denying the possibility with only disproving reasoning is a closed minded way, and to say you don't care enough to go search and be sure=lazy=not comptely inform/not an entirely valid opinion/not an entirely accurate assumption. Number 4) Addresses this That only by assumtion, this goes back into this being an open ended hypothesis/discussion/topic. Dragonic Quote: The astral realm is (supposed to be) the energy realm. Physical matter needs energy... make sense? (the logic, not the facts, so don't go there) Why can the physical plane not make it’s own energy? I didn't say the physical plane cannot make its own energy, (I'm currently not saying it can either) you twisted my words to make me say something else. I'll summerize something I perfer (not saying believe). In the astral plane, two astral objects can'do interact with eachother basically like to 'physical plane' objects would. One cannot pass directly through the substance of the other (unless their are special circumstance which we also have on th e"physical plane"). The astral plane seems ethereal to us because we are on the physical plane (which seems corpereal). On the astral plane, the "physical plane" seems ethereal to astral entities. Things on/in the astral plane seem more corpereal to other 'astral things'. Energy seems fairly ethereal to us. We can see see were the energy came from (through to an infinite pre whatever idea like yours), we can see what the energy is effecting, we can see how the energy is effecting things, we cannot see the energy itself. Its a metaphor, its not perfect. *avoids more catfight related content* Dragonic Quote: Egyptian gods reincarnate with each generation So you’re saying you’re an Egyptian god. Twisting words again.... Aaand... @Dragonic--Glad to see you understand Sin better for most things.... psychelapis again, another test (this is not one for otherkinism). . this girl asked me to read about a specific event, so, I did. . then, she went to this other guy that I wasnt talking to about her(she didnt mention my reading), and he said the SAME EXACT THING EVEN THOUGH WE DIDNT TALK TO EACH OTHER ABOUT THIS (or even know that each other did the reading, untilla fter both readings were completed). . this wasnt a general reading either, it was a vision reading. . this wasnt just general stuff either, and I am not going to even mention what she asked since I dont wnat to air her business. . but we both said the same thing would happen, we both saw the same location, and we both saw it happened for the same reason. . now, maybe we may have both saw it was for the same reason, maybe we both saw the same thing would happen, but the location(not a common location that you would expect). . no ******** way. . too many simmilaries! @lapis--I also was asked this and told her basically the same thing, also outside of you and the other guy. DragonicFlames However, I only brought it up to make sure that everyone, guild leader, dorian, psychelapis, sin-sin and whomever else wanted to discuss this knew that it was purely theoretical and doesn’t exist in “science” world of earth. No one should be stating a belief as a fact. Christians do it and we all b***h and moan about them. @lapis--I think it would be hard not to conceed to this point.("this point" being the bold section as one sentence) @Dragonic--Since you have admitted to certain things being rude, amoung other traits being(or seeming to be) present, can you deny then that your argument may have come across as you not knowing we already knew this? Simple yes or no answer. psychelapis this argument is open ended, and it is possible otherkins exist, becuase it hasn't been proven without making any assumptions or going on "beleifs" that they dont or do(exist). I added the "exist" at the end. Quoted for emphisis. Both of you lapis I will continue to repost this untill you stop trying to say that I started this Dragonic I'm just going to copy-pasta this response until you get tired of seeing it. Real ******** mature. lapis you have yet to spam your thing, DF, its too late for you... However, don't, cause that is 1. Extremely childish. 2. Extremely counterproductive. 3. Spam, and not rephrasing spam, pure spam. Which is kinda a "no-no" on gaia. And I bid you all a good night. *mutters* ******** gay friends....
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Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 3:44 pm
Hm. Okay. I guess I should do this, just incase no know knows about it.
Science shouldn't be giving all the blame on why this or that shouldn't exist. Science is making new discoveries EVERYDAY.
It wasn't that long ago when they were studying ESP and Psychism in animals.
And those worms that live in the ice, in temperatures that NOTHING is supposed to survive in.
We are far from learning the universe's secrets when it comes to science.
As it is fact, a theory isn't to be proven... it is to be disproven. You can have a theory without having or not having the ability to prove it. But if you can disprove it, with everything in literal terms, then you might have something there. But this is documented. The idea of Astral projection is centuries old, it is in the bible, in hindu/buddahism. Its in native american belief and culture, in egyptian, its everywhere.
And a lot of cultures have the idea or concept of reincarnation, or afterlife. Including the rebirth of animal souls into a human form and vise-versa. All you gotta do is look into history and folklore to see this. Easily.
I think the best thing we can do in this situation is to agree to disagree. And then roll over and give up. Seriously, theres not gonna be a concluding arguement. And the worst thing you could be doing is insulting and being rude to people.
Please, for appearances and representation. Be mature!
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Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 4:19 pm
(quoteness)you took every oportunity to be rude and throw in a personal remark against me. You were the first one to be rude, and very rude at that. Then you complain that we follow suite to a much smaller degree. I will continue to repost this untill you stop trying to say that I started this, becuase you did, as has been shown above. (quote)
I don't really give a s**t. Because you were rude specifically to me first. But you're going to b***h and whine and moan about it until you get bored of it. I'm just going to copy-pasta this response until you get tired of seeing it.
But you won't admit that you were rude specifically to me first. I've already admitted that I was rude generally first. But whatever, you believe what you want to believeQuote: So basically, this means you are not allowed to use the scientific point of view, since you "made sure" of what you were using it for, correct? (no) No. Reread it again. Quote: I could however point out how what you've said means there is nothing, souls, astral realm, afterlife, or No. Reread it again. Quote: First time I've seen that brought up here. Hm.... Awesome, got a comment or what? Quote: Yes, that the energy is changed and goes elsewere. You twisted her words/put words in her mouth to make her say that it just disappears. An idea I like is that the 'energy' that makes up 'the viel' will go into smoothing out the transition and changing of the 'laws' of both worlds, so that one doesn't simply take over the other with its functions/laws, and such. Thats just the one I perfer the most for an explaination, not really saying I beleive it. No, she's the one saying it would ... crap can't spell the word... XD I'll go quote it. That it would "dissapate". And then I asked it if would disappear, and she said yeah. And I stated an earth concept, which is ignored. :3 Quote: Now, in the quote you cited from what I posted, there is no mention of the future. If you would like to go back cite a larger amount of words that covers were I mention the future, then that changes the subject of this. Basically you didn't include any parts that had me mention the future. (this is a waste of space/time/effort) I should I have just quoted the metaphor part, but I quoted the bunch of text because well I did, not really noticing what I was quoting because it was a big wall of text that I didn't feel like breaking down. 8D Now granted I should have quoted the part of was trying to respond to. But DF can be lame at times. Here's what I was responding to. Maybe I switch windows while I was typing and didn't quote it right, since I use notepad. XD Anyway, whatever transpired here's what I was responding to: Quote: getting into the future, we have 'possibilities'. So, the future is like a blue print that has a large number of zig-zag paths that branch and reconnect and what have you. The idea is that there is a path that is the most likely to happen. It could change, so right now its not a straight path since the path hasn't been made yet (apparently). But we can logically on go along one of the possible paths. Threads is a metaphor for path, path is a metaphor for (whatever the ******** you want here), you get it. Its a multiverse in metaphor, but as logic seems to say, we can only take one real path of events... As you can see, it's content was applied with the future bit. And thus why i responded to it as such. 8D Quote: Yes, I said "Resurrection", what about it? You brushed him off. I responded to him. He said pythagoras and that was it. And he didn't seem to think that was exactly the name. I'm not going to correct someone else who was trying to give me a name of a guy who made the philosophy first. They can do it. Now this will be taken either two ways: 1) That I'm too lazy or 2) That I'm a "b***h" and I would have corrected him anyway and "we" know this because this is what "we" believe. ::Shurg:: it's not either. He's got more to say, good. I hope he can give me a source, that way I can use it in the whole topic about reincarnation. Quote: I didn't say the physical plane cannot make its own energy, (I'm currently not saying it can either) you twisted my words to make me say something else. I'll summerize something I perfer (not saying believe). In the astral plane, two astral objects can'do interact with eachother basically like to 'physical plane' objects would. One cannot pass directly through the substance of the other (unless their are special circumstance which we also have on th e"physical plane"). The astral plane seems ethereal to us because we are on the physical plane (which seems corpereal). On the astral plane, the "physical plane" seems ethereal to astral entities. Things on/in the astral plane seem more corpereal to other 'astral things'. I didn't "twist" your words. I asked you if it can't make energy since you implied that the astral planes makes energy for it. Oh oh, that's a cool backwards defintion this bit: Quote: The astral plane seems ethereal to us because we are on the physical plane (which seems corpereal). On the astral plane, the "physical plane" seems ethereal to astral entities. Things on/in the astral plane seem more corpereal to other 'astral things'. XD I like that. But if there are many astral planes would there be varying degrees of "ethereal"-ness? Quote: @Dragonic--Since you have admitted to certain things being rude, amoung other traits being(or seeming to be) present, can you deny then that your argument may have come across as you not knowing we already knew this? Simple yes or no answer. I can't yes or no without explination. Give me three sentence explaination limitation and I'll answer. ;3 Quote: Real ******** mature. lapis you have yet to spam your thing, DF, its too late for you... However, don't, cause that is 1. Extremely childish. 2. Extremely counterproductive. 3. Spam, and not rephrasing spam, pure spam. Which is kinda a "no-no" on gaia. And I bid you all a good night. *mutters* ******** gay friends.... She has been spamming in the last couple of posts. And she did repost it before your post did. And I put it at the top of mine as well because I'm not responding any more to it except for that. (I'll make it white and small for the shake of I'm not putting up with it.) Quote: Science shouldn't be giving all the blame on why this or that shouldn't exist. Science is making new discoveries EVERYDAY. ^_^ <3
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Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 7:29 pm
and you DF, have misread my post(or just ddint read it at all). . I didnt say it will not exist, it will go into something. . as I said, I havent lived through one of these before, so cannot be sure. .but, I did say it may just break down into energy that can be used by people. . I said the *veil* would dissapate, as in, break down(aka the *structure* of the veil that keeps the veil as being the veil will dissapate). break down. . transform into something else. . break down into its energetic bits most likely. . you ddint read my post, and again, were just looking for flaws so you can say that science doesnt agree with it. .
and about how you wnat to be able to use your scientific point of view. . no. . you opened that massive can of worms, probably hoping you could scare us off from the topic. . that is out their now, and we are running with it. . just becuae you have warms around that you cannot control doesnt mean that we are now going to ingore them becuase you took a very bad move in introducting them (giving us plenty of evidence to show that your claim holds no water)
and yes, you do twist our words all the time. . like above, how I explained in more detail about the part about the veil, you didnt read it, or choose to disregard it becuase you cant tear it down. . so, instead you twist my words and ignore the detailed explaination I gave you. .
Again, your spam, I am just mirroring your bahavior to show you how ridiculous you are being . The guild captian has already told me I can do whatever I want with this since she gave you a warning, mentioned in her last pm or at least implied. She said I can ban you or lock the thread or whatever. She went through the posts more than once, and has decided that you have insulted me enough to merit bannination. She doesnt want to have to deal with this mess anymore, so is just leaving it to me. The reason why you haven't been banned yet, is becuase you have been given a chance. Say what you want, if you hate this than you can quit the guild, but dont follow the rules or insult me one more time *hit me baby one more time*(song comes on in background) then you are gone.
@ Dorian- . . I appreciate the intelligence in not getting in the catfight, you may have gotten torn to shreads(you are just too cute for that though). . but, you cant honestly say how bad we are being without admitting you have been a bad boy yourself. . twisted . . a very bad boy. .*insert my fav emoticon here*
@babyXphantom-Yes, I agree. . we havnet talked much in this arguing about personal experiences and the such with astral projection. . but that is in part becuase DF has concluded that they could be "hallucinations" and she will not accept them. . she has been using science to "prove" her claim that otherkin do not exist, and I just pointed out repeatedly the flaws in the fact that she is only using part of science (which is already in and of itself an incomplete feild). . she wont accept quantum physics or any of that. . .
honestly, I made this thread so people could talk about thier personal expereinces of otherkin, not just spout off theories that are meaningless becuase logic isnt always right. . I mean, look at what Hitler did. . he convinced an entire country of people just like you and me that Jews were less than human. . that is a clear cut example of what the misuse of logic can lead to. . which is why I personally dont like to get too logical!. . I like to include feelings and intuitions and possibilities into my life, not try to use logic to set limits and tell other peopel that their beleives are false becuase my logic says so. ..I wanted to here from peopel about their past life memories, what do they energetically feel when around people who claim to be otherkin. . have their personal experiences supported or shown otherkins to be false?. . that is what I wanted to hear about, not this theory, but when she said she had "disproven" otherkins, I decided that hell, may as well fight logic with logic. . lol. .
and yes, this all was very immature. . but, you know, when you care about soemthing you fight hard for it. . no way around that, and, I do care about this topic, if you have read my previous posts, I mentioned the visions I have had, about the guy who I saw in a vision years before I met him in person, and the vision was about the war and otherkinism and the such. . so, I posted that and got made fun of for it. . it was quite a bit insulting, as you can imagine. . now, I am all about not falling into dogmatic s**t, but, I mean, c'mon!. . I meet someone in a vision years before I even meet them in real life, and then in real life they tell me they know about this war and otherkin and all that. .
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Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 12:14 pm
Hey, we have 669 members now. xD ( unemotionally )I unemotionally made a laugh when we had 666 for a while. I probably would haveunemotionally made a laugh at 616. Poor little christians can't get their translations right ever. xD ( unemotionally ) Quote: so you can say that science doesnt agree with it. . Oh dear, quotenesses: However, I only brought it up to make sure that everyone, guild leader, dorian, psychelapis, sin-sin and whomever else wanted to discuss this knew that it was purely theoretical and doesn’t exist in “science” world of earth. No one should be stating a belief as a fact. Christians do it and we all b***h and moan about them. I don't read posts that are nothing more than whining nearly all the way through it. Repeatative whining. I don't do it in chatterbox, GD, ED, or in any other thread I've been in. Because it's just going to be a waste of my energy and would end up at the end me not being objective to the conversation at hand. Quote: . I didnt say it will not exist, it will go into something. . as I said, I havent lived through one of these before, so cannot be sure. .but, I did say it may just break down into energy that can be used by people. . I said the *veil* would dissapate, as in, break down(aka the *structure* of the veil that keeps the veil as being the veil will dissapate). break down. . transform into something else. . break down into its energetic bits most likely. . Which is "disappearing" of sorts. ^_^ So, how would the people use the energy or rather, gather the energy to be used (since you can't predict what humans are going to do with something you give them). Quote: but that is in part becuase DF has concluded that they could be "hallucinations" and she will not accept them. . she has been using science to "prove" her claim that otherkin do not exist, Your assumptions lead me to believe you do not read my posts at all. And I'm unemotionally implied to know that I may now skim through all of yours.
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Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 1:42 pm
Hm.. neutral
Okay. I don't think you should be blaming Christians for anything, either, as alot of their 'beliefs' were brought up through pre-christian cultures and into Christianity.
But I suppose thats for another time.
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Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 4:35 pm
Not sure what exactly just happened up there with the argument, but for the sake of making a fresh post in the guild, Since I've been gone for a few weeks, and for hte sake of debate. I'm going to post my opinionated differences between Therians and Otherkin because I got into an arguement with some other people on a nother guild about this subject.
Personally I believe that Therians and Otherkin are completely separate categories. Okay so we all understand that generally speaking Therians and Otherkin are different in that Therians are more specifally designated to the world of animals and nature, and Otherkin in general is more specific to the world of mythilogical creatures. Agreed? if not debate.
Now in this other Guild I was a little annoyed though that people were trying to subject that Therians are under the category of Otherkin. Personally I feel that these two subjects are completely separate. While yes both ideas incorperate the concept that a human body has a soul or mind that isn't entirely human in nature, I feel there are some major differences between both terms.
Otherkin, from what I've seen thus far, seems to indicate the idea that the human body under subject doesn't have a human soul, rather it has the soul of some form of a mythilogical creature, be it just a simple elf, or something more like a dragon or minotuar. Its a creature that can think just like a human, but the soul itslef is non-human.
Therianthropes, however I believe are different. While yes a therian holds the mind or a soul of something non-human, by deffinition of a therianthrope, that soul or mind is also tied with the human counterpart. A key concepts that indicate that there exists both a human and animal soul/mind is the idea that therians "Shift" in many many ways. Be it occationally feeling phantom limbs, or mental shifts, spirtual shifts, or a dream with a spirit guide. They all indicate in some way that the body holds both a human and an animalistic soul.
Don't agree? Then once again, its up for debate, however, I will say most of the therian web sights all tend to agree on such thought about the separation of Otherkin and Therianthropes. And if this is a repeat in any way, oh well, I felt the urge to spark debate and get people off this impending argument above.
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Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 6:41 pm
DragonicFlames Quote: I appologize before I read yourresponce...I've been having alot of issues lately Yeah, today I tried to get the dentist to drill me a new mouth in my cheek. First she tried to use another way of numbing me, and it didn't work the first time and blamed it on me because I didn't hold my mouth open wide enough. And then the second time it only numbed a part of my lip and when I said so I think the assistant thought that I meant that my whole lip was numb (that's how you know that the tooth is numb) and when she started drilling, it got to the nerve and I jerked at the pain. So that was a fun experience. I crushed my throat when I jerked, so i couldn't shallow for a good hour or so. So that was all good and fun. Quote: My research methods: To have At Least Two sources of information looking at the same thing. I Don't Tell them what to expect I don't Know conciously much of the time what to expect They get the SAME INFORMATION Repeatedly Validity+Reliability They Don't know what to believe that they are going to see... If it's validation enough for you, it's enough for you. I don't get anyone else to validate me because I really don't need it. I don't much care (not in a negative sense) that you believe and shape your soul/astral project to fit what your most comfortable in. Quote: Sometimes I even tell them that they will see things Other then what they actually see. I tell them its green when its red... They See Red Both of them see red though I told then it was green There are certain things which have been universaly agreed upon by all those I have met who have Reliable Sight Like I said, I don't validate by the means of other people so I can't say yea or nay on it. Quote: The realms House communities they are fast What are "house communities" I haven't heard this term before. Are they like retreats? Quote: The Different realms Aren't the same as Earth There are some that are close. Quote: The spirits there seem concious of Other spirits they aren't cut off or secluded. It only seems to be Our Realm and a few others that are liek that Why is our realm cut off? Quote: They have Concious knowledge of spirits and places and the like. They aren't constricted to one realm. They can come here but they don't seem to have any influence in this realm. Some of them claim to have been reincarnated on earth at some point but that isn't an Absolute. I bet it would be nice to travel like that. But eventually I think one would hit a barrier or something that might block their entry. Quote: This is of cource from people who have reliable sight meaning you can test their sight. Can't say yea or nay to this. Quote: Reincarnation is the theory of Rebirth. Ok, that's better. See because the Native Americans would literately change into animals. And I haven't seen any myths (not that I've looked hard) about the Egyptian gods actually reincarnating into something else besides a god. In the Greek Mythology they can take on the appearance of something, which isn't an incarnation. Quote: What I actually found out is you can choose to reincarnate. It makes sense. I think that's how most people get back onto earth, they choose to reincarnate. Rebirth is to reform one self... there are different definitions to that word. House communities are like to house to put up to hav others live in. All barriers can be get around or broken depending on skill and effort time and weather someone is activly trying to stop you or not. Activly trying to stop you the person can remake it and alter it so it isn't the same. Our realm is cut off by what appears to be a barrier that has been named for lack of better wording the veil. It is partially cut off. In most respects it actually isn't Really cut off just the mode of relationship is limited. To exist in this realm you have to work with the realm within the confines and laws of the realms limited by the realm. While spirits can be here they have no means to exert influence in this realm because they lack knowledge of the laws and of how to work with the laws the same as most people trying to practice magic in this realm. I theorize that with full knowledge of the laws and workings of the realm it would be easy for one to work magic in this realm. I mean if you understood the workings of physical substance you'd know how to affect it in order to produce change... In reality the study of magic is the study of laws and relationships... Mostly really on relationships... between things. To gain a knowledge of this... you might not have words for it... like those building a catapault may not be able to know the mathemetical values etc for angles and other factors but still know how to aim with the wind in order to make it hit that specific tower. See this is a belief... I'm not sure if its true or not. I have able to properly test it since its a bit difficult to test. In anycase... Most of my issues to varify information is because I won't believe in something that could be based purely on my own beliefs. I want to make sure what ever information I learn is untainted by Illusion Delusion or confusion... I have had enough dealings with both and those that claim to see and claim to know and those that pull power trips and those that see but not clearly and all these other fallacies. My natural inclination is kinda aethistic... I don't believe in things. I can make arguements for or against anything. I don't trust much and I am mildly paranoid. This can in its way form a possitive mixture because I think through and try to find fault with everything I could possibly believe. This allows for fairly sound grounds for any actual belief I have. Its rare for me to believe anything accept as a temporary necesity born of the need to latch onto something for a stable view of reality. While my beliefs and views are subject to change most of that which I consider basic concepts are pretty well founded and would take alot of effort to disprove. Though I do fluctuates between different belief patterns... certain views I can adopt have drastically different ways to view the same information. Just the information I am basing it on doesn't change and that information is based on perception... Mine and others... That which is mine that is seconded by others independent of my interference is even more founded then others. It means that this information exists outside of my mind... this exists outside my will and outside of me. Its a Very important thing to have... Its like... You see a flying green man and you Say WTF that can't be so you ask your friend beside you if they see it to. They say yes... you still may disbelieve it... So you take a picture and ask others. lol... the man wasn't in my head after all... thats reassuring That souls have a form, in fact they have an original form, is a truth independent of my own views. It is independent of personal bias. That there is the existance of the realms is independent of personal bias. Your views and your beliefs may be subject to your own mind soly but I prefere to have my beliefs not a product of my own imaginings. I prefere to have Reason and strong well founded valid reason which I can't seemingly disprove the foundation for anything I believe.
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Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 6:50 pm
The only way we have to understand reality is perception. Perception is flawed... the closest we can come to accuracy is trying to mesh what we percieve and what others percieve and find congrunecies.
This isn't telling people what they see or influenceing it in any way...
Its letting them see the world as they see it...
Its letting them have beliefs and passively viewing what they (say they) see and not affecting it... not tinging it with your own perceptions.
It is looking at the basis for there beliefs.
This is important. Understanding why people think the way they think... understanding how and why people seeing the same thing can get different perceptions and then trying to work out the basis for those perceptions. To try to wade through mis representations and mis interpretations and people tinging things with personal truths and Knowing to the best of your ability what is.
I dunno... I see that as important...
You can claim anything is false...
To build a tower of truth yet illusion keeps seeping in and the foundation is built on lies.... so it falls down. Thus you build again... and this time the tower is stronger... untill one day it's strong enough to reach the heavens...
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Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 7:16 pm
@Dragonicflames---again, yes, no one should be saying a beleif as fact. . which is why the beleive that science is real, that the earth is real, is a beleif. . not a fact. . since, as you have shown, I cannot prove to you or you to me that the earth is even real. . so, theirfore, no definite answer as to if otherkin are real or not can be found, so, it is fair to say it is possible since we have no completely solid logical evidence for one way or another. .
if you wish to see repetative whining,feel free to reveiw your posts. . if you ever did, you would find an overly sufficient level of repetative dross...
with the energy part, supposedly many races of otherkin (if this world was real and they were real) already know how to use energy. So, they would probalby have a better grasp on how to gather energy than supposed humans (although humans of course could learn, it is just easier for relearning than to learn for the first time). . they could break down this energy and make things with it, their are many possibilities. .I mean, supposedly, if their really are other realms and other species and we are not really living in a dream world that isnt real at all, well, supposedly when the astral is meshed with the physical, one could affect the physical with their mind. As in, if I had a chair, I could break down the energy (if I knew how and had this skill) and turn it into a table. .so, this energy could possibly be harnessed for, well, whatever. . but, this is just a speculation considering I have never (to my knowledge) dealt with a veil before. .
and, to gather the energy. . well, mind and will affect energy, energy follows will which is directed by thought(something to that effect), you think about pulling the energy to you, and it comes. .XD. . or, to get a bit more technical, you would probably sned out a little bit of your energy to this energy you were trying to pull to you to pull it to you. .
and, you have been skimming my posts from the beginning, this statement isnt a new one, or at all surprizing. .
@BetaSwimmer-
well, by my definition, otherkin are people who are in a form differnet from their current energetic form. . meaning, the energy from a past life other than human remains as a dominant part of their energy system into this life. .
I wouldnt say that all otherkin can think like a human or whatnot. . not every species is like that. .
well, I personally dont see why one would want to make that distinction. . becuase, honesly as you are now, we are in a human body, and even otherkin are gong to take on some of the energy of being human by nature of being in a human form one would think. . I mean, when I said otherkinism is a soul defect, that means that you can still have some human traces too. . but, it honesly would probably have to be judged on an individual basis, becuase certain lives would have a greater preponderence in the energy I suppose. .
anyways, having both human and "animal" signs in your energy isnt anything new, otherkins can have that too. . people that arent animal otherkin can "shift" back and forth. . can remember things, then change back to when they ddint. . can feel they are what they were, then shift back. .
and, about the spirit guide thing. . I am not claiming to be otherkin, but, I have met my animal spirit guide, and another spirit guide.. doesnt really have anything to do with being otherkin. .
I dont think it is so much separation of theorians and otherkin, but like, probalby has to do a bit more with how different what you were is from what you are now(in a human form with some human energy as well as what you were with before), and that becuase of such drastic differences you may be able to awaken and shift into that energy of the past, but, then shift back becuase it is too dramatic, and maybe the energy is trying to find some middle ground or something.. whereas others that their system and mindset is simmilar to humans dont have to have such struggle, as they have less to reconcile..
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Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 2:31 pm
Therians and Otherkin: It doesn't affect anything physical so I really don't see the point in arguing about it. People can believe what they want and those that go on trying to disprove those beliefs come off as assholes akin to atheists that only want to bash on Christianity because it's the only religion they know anything about.
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Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 4:35 pm
Sorry I haven't responded lately. You know, it's Holidays for people. And it's a forced march for DF. Quote: I don't think you should be blaming Christians for anything, either, as alot of their 'beliefs' were brought up through pre-christian cultures and into Christianity. I wasn't blaming christians for anything. I was saying that people are hypocrites when Christians use their religious beliefs as an example and complain about it. And yet when you or someone else using a religious belief or a personal belief as an example and I void it, you or someone else complains about it, exactly like you or someone else would do to a Christian. ^_^ (unemotional emote) Me likely the whole Be nice to everyone thing that Christians have going for them. But they are hypocrital themselves. So I find that the entire christian religion and all it's many branchs and sects are deeply poisoned to the point of where it's not really following much of anything. You know? But that's my personal opinion. Quote: Now in this other Guild I was a little annoyed though that people were trying to subject that Therians are under the category of Otherkin. Oops. :/ I was under that same assumption myself. I appologize. (Not that we were arguing about that though. lol(unemotional)) Quote: Therianthropes, however I believe are different. While yes a therian holds the mind or a soul of something non-human, by deffinition of a therianthrope, that soul or mind is also tied with the human counterpart. A key concepts that indicate that there exists both a human and animal soul/mind is the idea that therians "Shift" in many many ways. Wow. I agree with this. O:! Surprise. Because I believe that everything that one experiences equals the sum of the souls. And any animal experiences would be blended in with all human and or other animal experiences. ... (So esstentially Therians would fall under this belief) Shocking. Thank you BetaSwimmer for enlightening me on that. However I utterly do not believe in Otherkin though. Quote: House communities are like to house to put up to hav others live in. So like a retreat?! I wanna go... =U-U=; You wanna come wiff me? >:3?! xD Lol (unemotional). Quote: All barriers can be get around or broken depending on skill and effort time and weather someone is activly trying to stop you or not. Activly trying to stop you the person can remake it and alter it so it isn't the same. But what if the barrier was like that wrapping plastic and just wrapped around you? Quote: I don't trust much and I am mildly paranoid. Hazaa... Sin-sin has come to the dark side where there ish pron! ^_^ And Axel... (UNEMOTIONAL... I swear... it was. :/ <~~ Emote is so BSing) Quote: The only way we have to understand reality is perception. Perception is flawed... the closest we can come to accuracy is trying to mesh what we percieve and what others percieve and find congrunecies. This isn't telling people what they see or influenceing it in any way... Its letting them see the world as they see it... Its letting them have beliefs and passively viewing what they (say they) see and not affecting it... not tinging it with your own perceptions. It is looking at the basis for there beliefs. Beliefs should not be mingled with your perceptions, but can be if need to be. (Am I right?) Sin-sin ish going to be the muther of my second child, yes? :3? Quote: This is important. Understanding why people think the way they think... understanding how and why people seeing the same thing can get different perceptions and then trying to work out the basis for those perceptions. To try to wade through mis representations and mis interpretations and people tinging things with personal truths and Knowing to the best of your ability what is. -Skims through some BS at the top of some posts- Quote: with the energy part, supposedly many races of otherkin (if this world was real and they were real) already know how to use energy. So, they would probalby have a better grasp on how to gather energy than supposed humans (although humans of course could learn, it is just easier for relearning than to learn for the first time). . they could break down this energy and make things with it, their are many possibilities Why are otherkin special? Didn't we just say a couple posts back that they have problems with energy which is what supposedly "makes" them otherkin? If so, then they would have serious problems working with energy, because it would have already been affected by the messed up energy in their bodies. This does not add up to me. Please re-explain this to me. Quote: .I mean, supposedly, if their really are other realms and other species and we are not really living in a dream world that isnt real at all, well, supposedly when the astral is meshed with the physical, one could affect the physical with their mind. As in, if I had a chair, I could break down the energy (if I knew how and had this skill) and turn it into a table. .so, this energy could possibly be harnessed for, well, whatever. . but, this is just a speculation considering I have never (to my knowledge) dealt with a veil before. . Of course, if we could use raw (lol (unemotional) I wrote rawr instead of raw the first time) energy we could, possibly, do anything with it. Quote: and, to gather the energy. . well, mind and will affect energy, energy follows will which is directed by thought(something to that effect), you think about pulling the energy to you, and it comes. .XD. . or, to get a bit more technical, you would probably sned out a little bit of your energy to this energy you were trying to pull to you to pull it to you. . What if someone was pulling on it while you were pulling on it? Could that mean that someone would have to show more will or would it be the first one who got there? Could someone steal someone elses energy without prior experience of being an energy theif? Would it become like a tennis ball game? -More skimming- Quote: and, about the spirit guide thing. . I am not claiming to be otherkin, but, I have met my animal spirit guide, and another spirit guide.. doesnt really have anything to do with being otherkin. . Totemn animal =/= Spirit Guides. Totemn animals are specifically animal spirits and Spirit Guides are like Humans. :3 Better term for them then "animal spirit guide" because after a while it gets confusing if your talking about an animal or a spirit guide when you drop of the "animal" part in front of it. Quote: People can believe what they want Which is why we have insane asylums. 3nodding (Not being sarcastic) The insane believe what they want to believe. And most of it doesn't fit into the "ideal" reality. And thus is why they placed in asylums. Which are, by the way, places of safety. Definition of the word I mean. I dunno if it's safe or not. Quote: those that go on trying to disprove those beliefs come off as assholes What, never. People are surely never going to believe that about someone else. Shame on you for even mentioning that. (That was sarcasm, by the way. Just so that if we go on the way and you say "well you were being sarcastic in this post so we can think that you were sarcastic in all these other posts" yeah, no. Specifically here was where I was sarcastic. back to unemotionalism) Quote: atheists that only want to bash on Christianity because it's the only religion they know anything about. Actually I've seen some atheists bash on paganism/wicca and some bash on Buddhism and Hinduism. Though of course they don't know much about Buddhism which is a shame because there are monks out there who destroy and kill christians and christian churchs. Sometimes I think athetists have got it all wrong. If you want to wipe out a religion, or a particular sect of people go with the groups that are killing of the practicers of that religion. It only makes common sense. And then i've seen atheists who don't bash on anything. :/
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Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 9:44 pm
no, they have trouble letting *go* of energy, of the past, of their past experiences and abilities. . they dont have trouble working with energy. . and, the fact is, to resist the pull of nature to give up that energy takes a bit of energetic skill. . so, no, they dont have trouble using energy(unless of course in that past life they had some trouble using energy or some emotionatl blockage that they are taking with them, that could have an affect on their energy usage. .but, as a general rule, they wouldnt necessarily have trouble using energy)
and, as I already said, becuase they were able to avoid letting go of their past energy, their energy will still "remember" how to do the things that they learned to do energetically in the past. .
if 2 people were pulling at the same thing, well, the bigger and more skilled would probably win. . it gets confusing their though, becuase, someoen that has very low energy but a lot of skill could kick the a** of someoen who has a lot of raw energy and no skill. . but, it really depends in those cases. . if both people were of the same skill, then the one with the stronger energy would generally win. .
yes, someone could steal someone elses energy without knowing they are. . that would be called the subconsious energy vampire. . they are subconsiously using their energetic skill to, er, be an energy vampire. . but, without prior experience. . well, that is what learning is for. . I mean, every skill everyone had a first time they learned it. . but, you also have to take into account with that scenario that if someone is trying to steal someone elses energy, they may just block or sheild from them. .
and no, it wouldnt be a tenis ball game. . it isnt like the only thing you are doing with energy is what you are thinking about right now. . your energy is maintaining certain functions without you being consiously aware of them. . for instance, I have a sheild up, I always have a sheild up unless I consously take it down to do something. .I am not always focusing on my sheild, but, I subconsously have it up. . so, it isnt a tennis game, their is a lot more at work their than just what you are consiously focused on. .
I know that animal and spirit guides arent the same. . lol. . animal totem thing is like, an animal that is associated with you, but, it can also act as a guide, which is why I called it that. . it is like how you are now often, representing the lessens and the such you are on and learning. .I have met mine and it has guided me and "talked" to me in dreams before. . and, then I have my spirit guide, who used to be around me a lot keeping watch, and when I astral project he comes and makes sure I stay out of trouble. . lol. . and, personally I dont really care what form a guide is in, as long as they are helping me I am cool with them. .
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Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 10:39 pm
Quote: Why are otherkin special? Didn't we just say a couple posts back that they have problems with energy which is what supposedly "makes" them otherkin? If so, then they would have serious problems working with energy, because it would have already been affected by the messed up energy in their bodies. This does not add up to me. Please re-explain this to me. I don't think otherkin are special. I think otherkin are well just aware. I mean the only thing that makes them "special" is that they realize spirits exist and realize there is something outside the physical. What probably would make them more able to deal with energy is that they have past experience or knowledge to tap. Kinda like remembering... oh in this life didn't I do this by doing that? The only time its really a problem is when stupid people... are caought up in oh I used to think that... That they are rigid and un adaptable and pretty much reject any other way of being then the one they prefere. Quote: Beliefs should not be mingled with your perceptions, but can be if need to be. (Am I right?) Sin-sin ish going to be the muther of my second child, yes? :3? hehe I don't think your a guy for starters... so that might be a tad difficult Beliefs should be based on perception... And I think it depends on what you'd concider migling... Beliefs can be mingled... Ok examples I have seen you do things before that seem to suggest that you are insulting me. I percieved you said this. I came to this conclusion based on what I percieved. So latter... my beliefs may taint my perception. I may think you are insulting me latter though it seems less insulting because you insulted me in a similar way before. Now weather you actually insulted me the second time or not is indecisive. I'm not sure but you seemed to before and that supports me thinking you did it again. I urge to have this second opinion kinda held in reserve. It is good to learn from past experiences but not let them over ride present experiences. It is necassary for a short term decision since you lack anything else to guide your decision. I've been mildly paranoid for a while. I just don't let paranoia control me and just let it be the little voice in the back of my head that tells me nothing exists and all is a lie. That there is no such thing as reality it is all an illusion of possibility and there are billions of me saying billions of different things and I am just experienceing one of them. Of cource my views on the non existance of reality change into different patterns. There are many different ways to view this but I choose the view that I do exist and that there is such a thing as will and influence in existance... It would be soo boring if there was just patterns... never ending patterns of movement changeing and altering. It always goes back to certain things... the illusion of control and purpose is something I like to maintain... Quote: But what if the barrier was like that wrapping plastic and just wrapped around you? Think about how... different things interact with plastic in order to break or alter plastic at a chemical level. That is like breaking a bind. No matter how solid it seems you can always go small enough slim enough or just work through it. Finding your way through the maze of connections can be easier then actually breaking those connections. It is something like creating a net of medal wires around one self... there are gaps just some are very small. It could also be likened to energy running through a maze of wires. To much energy at one point breaks or burns the wires. The energy is trying to reach the ground but keeps failing... we rerout it and change its directions and doo all sorts of stuff. many different analogies some are better then others. Specific types or wards are for specific things like clothing is meant to keep you warm... armour is meant to protect. How its made determines its purpose... and its not like a retreat...It is a place you can enter and live. Its a PHRASE house(as in to let them live in) communities(as in what your letting live in) So the realms house communities (as in the communities live in the realms) Quote: Wow. I agree with this. O:! Surprise. Because I believe that everything that one experiences equals the sum of the souls. And any animal experiences would be blended in with all human and or other animal experiences. ... (So esstentially Therians would fall under this belief) Shocking. Thank you BetaSwimmer for enlightening me on that. However I utterly do not believe in Otherkin though. Otherkin primarily( I think) relies on the fact that souls have an origin outside of the physical. That physical definitions or identifications aren't enough to actually have significance. That form (especially the human form) is just that a form. It is not who they are or what they identify with. It is another form they experience but it isn't there form. It is there physical form. Perhaps to them it only has substance on this level of interaction. On another level they have a different form. Also that experience doesn't dictate shape... If I adopted a form it wouldn't replace my original form. It is a valid way to experience the world. I am seeing it through something elses eyes. A different pair of eyes then I normally experience life. If you want me to go through this discussion again I will... But taking on a shape doesn't confer the society and everything else and experience of growing up in that shape. If I took on the shape of a gryphon I wouldn't be a griffin. Seeming isn't Being. The physical form can be likened to an illusion. It is an illusion of being. The spiritual form is also in its way an illusion... I can alter it and change it. It is a conduit that is all. I have made alterations to this conduit. I changed it on purpose or something else changed it. I'm not relying on my natural enegy channels instead I am subjectingmyself to new channels. I am creating or adopting a form. I am creating or adopting a different way of being but there is nothing to say that this conduit will fit me better then my old. My original form fits me perfectly... that is all I know. I know there is a original I know it fits me. I don't know how it is for others... I know all spirits have an original form. Otherkin I think are just Identifying with this original form seeing it as a continous representaton of them. I was born dragon... I am dragon... Rather then saying I was born dragon... I look human ther fore I'm human. Or even I am now human I was at first dragon in between here and there I've been griffin lion eagle hawk hen snake and a newt I see nothing wrong with favoring the soul's form over ones physical... rather then favoring the physical in speach and thought over the spiritual. Ignoring both is a bad thing and devoting our self to one and neglecting the other is also bad. denying one in favor of the other is bad. Adopting a form... you don't gain the culture of that form... just the form. Then you learn only that forms interaction with other forms and creations. Nothing else in changed accept the mode of interaction.
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