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 Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 1:23 pm
Brilliant Insanity @kuntrykid:
so, let me get this straight. what you're saying is that because someone is homosexual, they are incapable of love?
is that what i'm understanding?
because if it is, i think someone seriously needs to slap you.
how could you even think that someone is incapable of love, no matter who they love?
love is love is love is love is ####### LOVE.
it doesn't matter who someone loves.
it doesn't matter why.
it just is. it's a scientific fact.
you are making no sense whatsoever. I'm saying that I believe it is not possible for a male to love another male and a female to love another female. Also, you're saying that a child would like to marry their parents? My response to yusono covers my beliefs on the scientific fact part.
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Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 1:27 pm
Sensay Sasuke It's a sin. The BIBLE says not have same sex realationships in anyway. I personally don't think it should happen but hey ya know what am I to do i not into politics. Yay! An ally!
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Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 1:28 pm
Kyle Riley
I a bit concerned about this thread. I don't like what kuntrykid said myself, but I don't think anyone really needed to go so overboard about it.
What he said was hurtful but that's what he believes. He may have said it a bit rudely but I don't think people had to get so angry.
What everyone is doing is just as bad as what he did. Having a lot of people jump on one guy isn't exactly any better than him saying what he said.
Also, try to keep swearing to a minimum. This is a PG-13 site after all.
~ I Love Tommy ~ Ah, thank you.
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Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 1:30 pm
thechickennuggit // xD
Uhhh, so 24710908104 people are flaming kuntrykid becase you all don't like what he's saying, and Muffin, you want to kick him out of here?
What he says is what he believes, and though I also think he is wrong, do you all realize how rude you're being?
People have opinions, and they express them in here. That's what debate is for. If you can't take that and are going to keep taking offense and retaliating through cheap emotional tactics, you're the one that should leave.
edit: whoa, this was moving faster than I thought it was o3o;
QFT @ Kyle's last post. Thank you too.
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Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 1:38 pm
Wormmon ~Demonic Muffin~ Sensay Sasuke It's a sin. The BIBLE says not have same sex realationships in anyway. I personally don't think it should happen but hey ya know what am I to do i not into politics.
And what if there are people who don't believe in God?Exactly. Not everyone believes in God or what the Bible says. I really don't think the Bible or God has a role in bisexual or homosexual relationships anymore. Especially if you think about how hypocritical it is. God is happy and accepts everyone but yet in the Bible or the churches today don't approve of homosexuals as one of the things on their "no-no" list. You can't have it both ways.
@nuggit: It'd be great if he actually wasn't rambling about nonsense. If he wants to actually make sense and support whatever his opinion is and with whatever evidence that's fine. All of us really think he's just here to argue, not actually debate about the topic originally. He's done it in other debate topics in here too. 1. My beliefs are of the "hate the sin love the sinner" type. I also think that those are God's. 2. As I said, it's kind of hard to provide facts when dealing with the very complex human mind. 3. Before one can debate same sex marriage they have to debate homosexuality or it would be a very dull and short debate.
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Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 1:42 pm
Kyle Riley
Actually, his reasoning is from the bible. That's what he learned.
Just because it isn't exactly from himself, though I suppose it actually is because that's what he believes, doesn't exactly make it not debating. Yusono posted a lot of stuff about love being chemical, how is that debating and the bible isn't? The bible is just a different point of view which is something people are seemingly forgetting. And I don't think getting angry at someone for putting "#######" over "#######" is debating. I thought it was rather rude. He doesn't like swear words so he changed a quote, which isn't editing a post.
~ I Love Tommy ~ Again, I have a program on my comp which does that... not me.
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Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 1:47 pm
yusono Kyle Riley
Actually, his reasoning is from the bible. That's what he learned.
Just because it isn't exactly from himself, though I suppose it actually is because that's what he believes, doesn't exactly make it not debating. Yusono posted a lot of stuff about love being chemical, how is that debating and the bible isn't? The bible is just a different point of view which is something people are seemingly forgetting. And I don't think getting angry at someone for putting "#######" over "#######" is debating. I thought it was rather rude. He doesn't like swear words so he changed a quote, which isn't editing a post.
~ I Love Tommy ~ [ However he actually stopped debating after page three and just continued to state his point of view and nothing else. When other's challanged his point of view he couldn't support it so he reverted to just saying his view over again, that's what I'm upset about. He has basically stopped debating and just gone into arguing.
He is also getting uppity about us not beign able to prove our points when we provide more information then he does. I'm not trying to be rude but I seriously don't believe he is actually debating.] People just started saying stuff like "So you're saying homosexuals are incapable of love?" and then I kept having to re-state it.
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Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:44 pm
how is 'like' a chemical process, but love isn't
love IS a chemical process.
neurologists have defined that.
depression is also a chemical process.
what do you think love is if it isn't a chemical process? The snack that smiles back.
Goldfish don't bounce.
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Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 5:25 pm
[Kuntry kid: Our brian is chemicals. That's what it is. Love is chemicals. It's been scientifically proven.]
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Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 6:26 pm
I don't think love is all chemical, or at least that's what I want to believe. No matter how much you, or science, tell me. I think love is something more, something you give to another. I don't think I could love anyone as much as I love Tom, even if someone were to mess with my chemicals.
@Kuntry: Oh, I didn't know it was a program.
~ I Love Tommy ~
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Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 6:34 pm
Kyle Riley
I don't think love is all chemical, or at least that's what I want to believe. No matter how much you, or science, tell me. I think love is something more. Something you give to another. I don't think I could love someone as much as I love Tom, even if they were to mess with my chemicals.
@Kuntry: Oh, I didn't know it was a program.
~ I Love Tommy ~ [ I seriously don't like the thought, I actually hate it. However it seems very stable in research.
However I don't know much about the science of family and friendly love. So even if they did mess with your chemcicals maybe you would still love Tom but in a non romantic way. I'm not sure.
It is something you give to another. Relationships however depend on the two people and not just the chemicals. Relationships are give and take, which is what I interpt as "giving love" to another.
However I don't really want to dig too deep into that because then you and I could get in a debate about this, which is not the topic of the debate my precious cupcake.]
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Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:53 pm
Most people with the biblical view that debate on the morality of homosexuality, use this verse in the Old Testament... Leviticus Chapter Eighteen, Verse Twenty-two "And with a man you shall not lie with as a man lies with a woman; it is an abomination". But they often forget. By their beliefs, they also believe that by the power and saving grace of the sacrifice of God Almighty's son, Jesus Christ, the old covenant was done away with.
The old covenant is what Christians refer to as the Laws of Moses (Not to be confused with the Ten Commandments). Many Christians today believe that because of Jesus' sacrifice, and the symbolic tearing of the holy cloth in the temple (the one that separated the Holy of Holies with the outer court; Note: the Holy of Holies was the innermost part of the tabernacle/temple where it is said the spirit of God himself resided and only the high priest could enter once a year) at his time of death, the old traditions and laws were done away with. No longer need they offer yearly sacrifices or pay the 10% first fruits of tithe...etc.
Now, we've established that the old laws for Christians are now null and void and we should live by the teachings of the New Testament. (Which DOES support the Ten Commandments, so those would be the only ones still followed from the Old Testament).
The verse about the 'sin' of homosexuality is from the Old Testament. So, we have therefore concluded that it, also, is null and void.
So then, let us see what the Bible actually has to say about love in the New Testament. First Corinthians Chapter Thirteen If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.
4 Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant 5 or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; 6 it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. 7 Love accepts all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
8 Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. 11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways. 12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.
13 So now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.
(Note: The numbers are the numbers of the verses)
So, that is what love is from the biblical perspective.
One word that really stands out here is the word all. Verse 7: "Love accepts all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things."
Now, I'm pretty sure we can agree that the definition of 'all' means everything, everyone....all. Not some, not just the people/things you say. All.
Also note the "Love accepts all things..." That is pretty clear in and of itself.
If you go around proclaiming to believe and support the Bible, you must believe ALL (there's our word!) of it. Not just the parts that are appealing to you.
So, looks like God himself said it...all can love.
Annnnnnd...before anyone says, "Oh well, that's what YOU believe it says... blah, blah..." I've not once stated here MY point of view. I've only stated the facts of the Christian faith and actual text from the Bible. Look it up for yourself if you don't believe it.
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Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:30 pm
*throws flowers at you* xd
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Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 12:00 am
Kyle Riley
I don't think love is all chemical, or at least that's what I want to believe. No matter how much you, or science, tell me. I think love is something more, something you give to another. I don't think I could love anyone as much as I love Tom, even if someone were to mess with my chemicals.
~ I Love Tommy ~
As much as I don't like the idea of what's being discussed here, I must admit, just how you said it made me laugh. ninja And made me go "Awww..."
Camo - *high fives* Lets see how he can wiggle his way out of those facts there. wink ~ I Love Kyle. ~
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Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 12:11 am
And now, an informal warning for the following folks...
thechickennuggit
Kyle Riley
Wormmon
~Demonic Muffin~
kuntrykid
Sad_Sad_Kiddie
yusono
Please remember what this particular thread is here for, debating Gay Marriage. Not how someone does there "debating", or a supposed Moderator ruling on things. So please, remember to keep things on topic.
Now personally, I'm sure everyone knows what I think of a certain someone in this thread, and even though I don't like his view point, I must respect the fact that he's just trying to defend himself and his view.
So yes, that means that I must side with him for the fact that people kept coming in with the same question, so of course he's going to give the same answer. Come in with new info to back up your side, and he'll likely give a new answer, right?
Now, please don't PM or IM me, freaking out, thinking you're in some sort of trouble. I'm just reminding you guys to stay on topic. No actual points are going to be given out. Now, carry on.~ I Love Kyle. ~
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