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Wierd Law in Israel: fortune teller arrested as a witch. Goto Page: 1 2 [>] [»|]

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Is Kuma a fraud?
  Yes, of course.
  No, magic isn't guaranteed to work
  She's not at fault, Beihou is a fool for giving her money.
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LordNeuf
Crew

PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 9:51 pm


News Story

You can read the whole thing but I'll just give you the juicy bits.
---
Her fawning customers consider Kuma a sage and soothsayer.

To the Israeli government she was a witch and a fraud.

This year, Kuma became one of the few people ever to be charged in Israel with practicing magic, a unique crime punishable by up to five years in jail.

In short, Kuma was the target of a modern-day witchhunt.

...

"It's against the law to be a fortuneteller," said Ofer Almog , a Tel Aviv attorney who represented Kuma and has become something of a specialist in defending accused witches.

The law, said Almog, is vague and imprecise: It is OK to offer advice based on tarot cards and the stars. But not coffee grounds.

More importantly, the Israeli government has to prove that people reading coffee grounds know they are charlatans. And that is a difficult hurdle to overcome.

...

In 2004, the Israeli police officer (Beihou) was looking for help on the eve of his marriage.

According to the government charges, Kuma looked into the coffee grounds and saw a cursed bride.

To remove the curse, Beihou agreed to pay Kuma about $1,000 for the help of a special "Jordanian sheik" brought in to deal with the problem.

When that was done, Beihou turned to Kuma for advice about his ailing father. Kuma told the police officer and his sister that their father was likely to die in two months if they didn't act quickly.

So Beihou paid another $2,200 for a series of amulets, which he was to dip in honey, burn or throw into the sea.

But Beihou's father didn't get better. So, earlier this year, he turned to the government, which filed fraud and magic charges against Kuma.

...


In the end, the Israeli government decided that proving that Kuma was faking it was too difficult. Almog cut a deal. The state agreed to drop the charges, and Kuma agreed to give Beihou a full refund.

"In light of the fact that there is no clear judicial decision how to determine the crime of magic, and in light of the willingness of the accused to fully return the money to the complainant, we decided that public interest would best be served by withdrawing the indictment in this case," the Justice Ministry said in a prepared statement.

That might have been the end of it. But Beihou said last week that he's not satisfied.

"I mean to sue her in civil court," he said. "She's cheated a lot of people."
---
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 6:48 am


...And people wonder how the Salem witch trials get started. I think it's stupid to try her as a witch (no matter how fake she is). The guy wouldn't have done anything if by some chance his dad actually did get better, so he had faith in witches at one point in time. This gets too close for me to not respecting free religion, but I think the whole case is stupid.

darkphoenix1247
Vice Captain


kingpinsqeezels

PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 8:16 pm


This is highly ridiculous on the Israeli governments part. I mean really, witchcraft?! Even if she was trying to cast spell or reading coffee grounds, who cares? If she wants to gaze at that stuff all day, that's up to her. Although I will say she was obviously conning this man, which is wrong, but as for other people who do such things and DON'T go around charing you 3,000 bucks, I don't see the problem.

I think the Salem Witch Trials were sort of egged on by younger and more uneducated members of the Puritans. Of course, anyone who has had to DIG through that awful book (The Crucible) probably knows that.
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 8:22 pm


She should have only gotten in trouble if she weighed the same as a duck.

Macaroni Jesus


LordNeuf
Crew

PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 11:48 pm


Macaroni Jesus
She should have only gotten in trouble if she weighed the same as a duck.


User Image - Blocked by "Display Image" Settings. Click to show.

We already had that discussion in a differnet thread...
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 12:47 am


LordNeuf
Macaroni Jesus
She should have only gotten in trouble if she weighed the same as a duck.


User Image - Blocked by "Display Image" Settings. Click to show.

We already had that discussion in a differnet thread...


So what?

Macaroni Jesus


Benzino the Great

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:51 am


O.o thats rediculous.

Some psychics are actually legit.. I believe in it because I see peoples auras sometimes when I first meet them. Many are however, frauds. If she was a fraud, then I would say this is okay, but not needed at all.. I don't like seeing people being tricked.

I would say terrorists - especially around Israel, are more important than a silly fake psychic.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:31 am


Benzino the Great
O.o thats rediculous.

Some psychics are actually legit.. I believe in it because I see peoples auras sometimes when I first meet them. Many are however, frauds. If she was a fraud, then I would say this is okay, but not needed at all.. I don't like seeing people being tricked.

I would say terrorists - especially around Israel, are more important than a silly fake psychic.


well admittedly terrorists are an issue, but it doesn't mean that the police don't have other laws to enforce.

having a cop pay a mystic 3 grand for spell charms which didn't save his father. And then having the cop become vindictive and go after said mystic on criminal charges is completly unrelated to if psychic's are legit or not. This cop found an obscure law to try and get back at the psychic by attempting to enforce and unenforceable law.

Like that one in Boston that said Native Americans could not set foot into Suffok County. It was repealed in 2006. As was the law that said any man with a goatee or short beard had to pay a 5 dollar tax to the state if he was unmarried.

As far as I'm concerned this fellow is just trying to get back at the psychic and using the obscure laws of Israel to do it.

However he failed, now he's in civil actions.

LordNeuf
Crew


Benzino the Great

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 11:54 am


That cop is mentally unstable. There are no spells. this isnt the harry potter world.. -.-;;

the final harry potter book was excellent btw if anyone reads it.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 12:27 pm


Benzino the Great
That cop is mentally unstable. There are no spells. this isnt the harry potter world.. -.-;;


The two most common things in the universe are hydrogen and magic. Magic is defined basically as an event that cannot be explained through science or technology.

I believe that there are forces within the universe that are not prone to normal control and cannot be explained through science or technology. Jewish Traditions are chuck full of celebrations in rememberance of miracles, Passover for instance.

Now I don't believe that someone can just pick up a book and claim to understand and manipulate the powers of the universe, however I do believe if you ask HASHEM for one, he may just give it to you.

What's the point of all our rituals if there's no mysticism or magic involved?

LordNeuf
Crew


Benzino the Great

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 12:37 pm


LordNeuf
Benzino the Great
That cop is mentally unstable. There are no spells. this isnt the harry potter world.. -.-;;


The two most common things in the universe are hydrogen and magic. Magic is defined basically as an event that cannot be explained through science or technology.

I believe that there are forces within the universe that are not prone to normal control and cannot be explained through science or technology. Jewish Traditions are chuck full of celebrations in rememberance of miracles, Passover for instance.

Now I don't believe that someone can just pick up a book and claim to understand and manipulate the powers of the universe, however I do believe if you ask HASHEM for one, he may just give it to you.

What's the point of all our rituals if there's no mysticism or magic involved?


I like how you put it.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 12:52 pm


One thing I never understood- what's the difference between miracles G-d performs and magic? Witchcraft is supposed to be illegal, but I think I'm missing something here. sweatdrop

darkphoenix1247
Vice Captain


LordNeuf
Crew

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:34 pm


darkphoenix1247
One thing I never understood- what's the difference between miracles G-d performs and magic? Witchcraft is supposed to be illegal, but I think I'm missing something here. sweatdrop


The difference is when there's an actual miracle, and someone appears and says "I did it! This was my power!" then that person is preforming magic.

When a miracle occurs and people turn to the heavens and sing praises to HASHEM for the glorious miracle. Then that's not magic, that's the power of HASHEM.

Only once did this difference occur to me.

I was in Harvard Square one lovely summer evening back when I was still a going to a Chabad House. A fight broke out, and then backup showed up for one of the fighters. Before long it was a 4 on 1 and the 1 wasn't doing to well. Knowing that this was a bad scene but aslo knowing that if I got involved it would be 4 on 2 and then I would have a can of whoopass delivered to me. So, I took out my pocket Artscroll Siddur and started to flip through it. Finding a prayer that I believed fitted the situation, I stood under a street light and quickly but quietly said it.

The MOMENT I finished the last syllable, the clouds opened up and a massive rainstorm fell down over the area. It was short, only five minutes, but a driving rainstorm. This sudden rain caused the 4 assailants to leave the 1 alone and they all went there separate ways.

I then looked through my siddur to find the approprate prayers of thanksgiving, because I believed that HASHEM had shown his power and delivered me a miracle.

That and it could of just been coincidence, maybe it just started to rain all of a sudden in a quick microburst storm. But one thing is for sure, I never at anytime believed that I had the power to cause it to rain.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 1:05 pm


That makes sense- thank you!

darkphoenix1247
Vice Captain


kingpinsqeezels

PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 6:38 pm


No one go dissing on Potter! stare

That truly an amazing occurance in my opinion, Nuef. What of the one? Was he hurt badly or anything?
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