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Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 7:43 pm
पजबोड़ ~ Allright, here I will post things relating to my conlang, पजबोड which in my funky phonetic system is represented as /pajbor./, which translated vaguely to "Child of Boredom". The name is because, this thing is the direct result of me having many hours being bored. I guess I'm doing this thread for one to show it off to other conlangers, but also kind of as a general reference for myself to keep my notes organized and in one spot. The basics of the language are figured out, but things are bound to change constantly as I change and improve it as you all can understand. Discuss!http://www.gaiaonline.com/guilds/viewtopic.php?page=1&t=9471575#117027032~Random Information~ The vocabulary for this language, as well as the sound system, are almost completely borrowed from Hindi and Sanskrit. The reason being, I hate making up words because it makes me feel silly, and I adore those languages, so why not pilfer some neat things from them. This language is not just Hindi and Sanskrit words with different grammar, vocabulary is more just 'loosely based' in Hindi and Sanskrit. For one, the words are changed to fit the sound system of this language, such as voicing or unvoicing a consonant, or dropping a final gender indicating vowel that is unnecessary in a genderless language. And they are also different because I have abbreviated many of the original Hindi or Sanskrit words down to a single syllable, keeping only the stressed and important distinguishing bits of the word. The foundation of this language is a set of single syllable root words, derived by the process above from Hindi and Sanskrit vocabulary. Each syllabic root word can be made up of a maximum of 4 phonemes or a minimum of 2, and each root word stands for at least one individual morpheme, or unit of meaning. Single phoneme words serve a different grammatical purpose than words of that type. These root words form the most empirical unit of this language, as each one is one indivisible unit that stands for at least one morpheme. Now, these words themselves are directly derived from Hindi and Sanskrit, but the majority will not be. This is because more complex words (complex in the sense of meaning, not sounds), such as "refrigerator" or abstract concepts, like "hate", will be made up of appropriate combinations of those root words. Even though there is a Hindi word for "refrigerator", the word for it in this language will probably be a compound of several small words, making a word that might literally be interpreted as "cold making box". That sounds silly and clunky in English, but because each one of those units of meaning can be contained in a single syllable, "cold making box" could be expressed in only 3 short syllables. I think this way, I should be able to express complex meanings clearly but efficiently, more efficiently than English certainly. Because of constantly cramming morphemes together, this language will most likely turn out to by synthetic, if not overly polysynthetic, but if possible oligosynthetic! So though the most basic of vocabulary is almost directly pilfered from Hindi and Sanskrit, the majority of words will be totally unrecognizable to their counterparts in those languages. To aid the constant linking of these root words, there are a set of sandhi rules set up to make the pronunciation of the complex compound words flow more comfortably than if I just jammed them awkwardly together. In the next installation, I will explain the phonetics of the language, and explain the use of the important root words that are the foundation of everything, as well as the use of the sandhi rules that govern them. If you don't know what sandhi is, ask the internets, they know. I expect that the grammar of this language will be ridiculously complex, since I love to play with grammar. Thats the reason I based the vocabulary on already complete languages, so that I can just get down to the fun part, the grammar!, and not waste time with making words. Go ahead and post in here if you want, I don't mind. If anything, comments are helpful.
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Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 7:27 pm
Phone-etics! ~ There are a pretty big number of phonemes used, which makes it easier to make a larger amount of distinguishable single syllable words, and as few homophones as possible. Basically all the sounds are stolen from Sanskrit and Hindi, except for a few, like θ and æ. It is written in a modified version of the Hindi Devanagari script, but since it would be too much of a pain to do that on here, and also since IPA is really annoying (because I'd have to spend forever copying and pasting), I'm just gonna make up a quick system to represent the sounds with letters I can type using my generic keyboard. I'll put the IPA this first time around though. First, I will put the phoneme as I will represent it in these lessons. Then, the IPA, and last a description. The description is based on generic American English, so probably won't work for the British quite as well. Its been a problem before. Try not to confuse my funky romanization system with English. I don't think its that hard, but I feel like other people might not get it. When I write stuff in it, I will surround it with slashes, ex: /blah/ , to distinguish it from the surrounding text. ~Things to Know First~ Retroflex and Dental Consonants-In this language, there are no alveolar consonants as in English, they are all retroflex or dental. English alveolar consonants are made by tapping the tongue on the alveolar ridge, the hard little spot almost right behind your front teeth. I'm bad at describing it, look it up. Just make a T sound, and you'll know the part I mean. For this conlang, if a consonant is dental, it is made by putting the tip of the tongue behind your front teeth, the same position that you would make the 'th' sound in. For retroflex consonants, the sound is made by putting the tongue on the hard palate a bit further back than the alveolar ridge. Almost where it is when you make a R sound, but further back. Just look it up, I can't describe well. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retroflex_consonanthttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dental_consonantAspirationAspiration is the release of air that comes with some consonants. Say the word 'top' slowly. Notice that after the t, there is a little moment where all you are doing is releasing air. That is the aspiration. When I say a consonant is unaspirated, that means that you should not do that as much as possible. When I say that a consonant is aspirated, you should release even more air than usual, even if it is a consonant that would never be aspirated in English, like 'j' or 'g'. So, either more or less air should come out than English. All or none. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspiration_(phonetics)T3h Phonemes Consonantst - t̪ - a dental unaspirated t sound, not alveolar like in English. th - t̪ʰ - aspirated dental t d - d - dental unaspirated d dh - d̪ʱ - dental aspirated d t. - ʈ - retroflex unaspirated t t.h - ʈʰ - retroflex aspirated t d. - ɖ - retroflex unaspirated d d.h - ɖʱ - retrofles aspirated d D - ð - like the 'th' of 'the' p - p - same as English, but unaspirated b - b - same as English, but unaspirated ph - pʰ - aspirated p bh - bʱ - aspirated b z - z - same as English J - ʒ - like the 's' of 'pleasure' c - tʃ - like the 'ch' of 'chair', unaspirated ch - tʃʰ - same as above, but aspirated j - dʒ - same as English jh - dʒʰ - same as above, but stronger aspiration k - k - like the 'c' of 'cat', unaspirated kh - kʰ - aspirated version of above g - g - like the 'g' of 'get', unaspirated gh - aspirated version of above n. - ɳ - retroflex 'n' N - ŋ - like the 'ng' of 'hanger' m - same as English r. - ɽ - the Japanese, or non-trilled Spanish R r.h - ɽʱ - aspirated version of above [rr] - Spanish trilled R l. - retroflex version of English l l.h - aspirated version of above v - same as English x - x - like the 'ch' of 'loch' or 'Bach' H - h - same as English, but may occur at the end of a word, as in Indonesian, Malaysian, Hindi, Urdu... SemivowelsThese are phonemes that can act as consonants or vowels. They can be used as the initial or final consonants of a root word, or may be combined into diphthongs as the other vowels can. However, a diphthong using a semivowel is not allowed if that same semivowel is being used as an initial or final consonant of the root word in a way that would make the semivowel be right next to itself. For example, the syllable /naDrrip/ is not allowed, however /naDgrip/ would be. Also, only one semivowel is allowed per diphthong. T - θ - like the 'th' of 'thing' l - l - same as English L, but dental lh - aspirated version of above r - r - same as English f - same as English n - n - dental /n/' s - s - same as English S - ʃ - like the 'sh' of 'she' y - same as English w - same as English - exception: these 2 may not be used as consonants. Vowelsa - ə - the 'schwa' sound, like the 'a' of 'alive' e - e - the 'e' of 'get' A - ɑ - like the 'a' of 'call' [ae] - æ - the 'a' of 'cat' u - ʊ - like the 'oo' of 'look' U - u - like the 'oo' of 'cool' o - o - like the 'o' of 'note, NOT at dipthong, (not oʊ) O - ɔ - like the 'o' of 'not' i - i - like the 'i' of 'it' I - iː - like the 'ee' of 'meet' ~Thats all of them~ Further notes ~ I'll get better descriptions of these things up eventually...When 'H' comes at the end of a word, it is pronounced. Its kind of like a sigh, just air comes out, but nothing else. It is pure aspiration, with no consonant. -All vowels are pure. -The diphthongs are simply one vowel said right next to another quickly, no blending. -'i' or 'u' can never come at the end of the word. -Remember to always pronounce H at the beginning of a word, don't get lazy and leave it out.
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Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 8:58 pm
Sandhi and Syllable Structure To make compounds flow more smoothly, I have set up a series Sandhi rules that cause sound changes to make words easier to pronounce together, so that when sounds that may be awkward to say right next to each other become more natural to say. I think the rules mostly make sense, but they are likely to change around a bit till its perfected. StructureAll root words are made up of 3 or 4 phonemes. The consonants which begin or end a syllable may be: t,th,t.,t.h,T,p,ph,s,S,c,ch,k,kh,n,n.,r,r.,[rr],l,lh,f,H All root words must start and end with one of these sounds, or a vowel, (excluding /i/, /y/, /w/, and/u/ or a long vowel). All other consonants come up as a result of Sandhi. In between those consonants, a single vowel, semivowel or long vowel (explained later), or diphthong of any 2 vowels, or of 1 vowel and semivowel are allowed. SandhiBefore I define the rules, here is an example of how sandhi is uses for this language. Say you want to combine the root words /chot./, small, and /cir./, bird. When combined, they become one pronounced and written as /chod.jir./ , possibly meaning 'small bird'. Notice how the final /t./ of /chot./ is voiced to /d./ when put next to /c/, which is also voiced into /j/. Try saying /chot.cir./ , and /chod.jir./ . I think that the latter one is easier to say. Most of the sandhi rules are based on this principle. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SandhiT3h RoolzThe first column is the initial phoneme, the second is what it changes into after sandhi is applied. Phonemes not included in that list do not change. The basic rules are, when 2 consonants are combined, they both change according to this chart: t - d th - dh t. - d. t.h - d.h T - D p - b ph - bh s - z S - J c - j ch - jh k - g kh - x n - m r. - l. r.h - l.h f - v ExamplesAll examples are just meaningless syllables meant to illustrate the principle, not real words./par./ + /tmI/ = /pal.dmi/ /fAuT/ + /Se[rr]/ = /fAuDJe[rr]/ /khUp/ + /khA/ = /khUbxA/ /chot/ + /chir./ = /chod.jir./ /San/ + /sel/ = /Samzel/ ~Exceptions~ -When /l/, /r/ or /n/, is the first member of a combination, there is no change. /chol/ + /t.hrk/ = /cholt.hrk/ /kOir/ + /jeg/ = /kOirjeg/ /San/ + /tIn/ = /SantIn/ -But, when /n/ or is the first member of a compound with /k/, /kh/, the /n/ becomes /N/, and the /k/ or /kh/ becomes /g/ or /gh/, respectively. /San/ + /khup/ = /SaNghup/ /t.en/ + /kech/ = /t.eNgech/ And when /l/ comes before or after a retroflex consonant, /l/ also is retroflexed. /SAl/ + /t.er/ = /SAl.d.er/ /net./ + /loS/ = /ned.l.oS/ The same rule applies for /n/. /kon/ + /t.ol/ = /kon.t.ol/ /n/ before /p/ or /ph/ becomes /m/. If there is /ph/, it stays the same, but if it is /p/, it becomes /b/ /San/ + /phus/ = /Samphus/ /en/ + /pAk/ = /embAk/ When /U/ is the second member of a combination with another vowel (only when a combination is happening, not a diphthong within a word) it may change to /w/. /teo/ + /USt. = /teowSt./ The same rule is applicable to I, except it changes to y. /SrA/ + /Ik/ = /SrAyk/ ~Other Rules~ Long VowelsLong vowels in this Language as work the same way as in Japanese. It is when a vowel is held with the same quality, but double the length of usual. Long vowels can only be made with normal vowels, and not semivowels. They also cannot be the initial or final phoneme of a rootword. Double Consonants-When to identical consonants come together, the consonant is pronounced as a double consonant, as in Japanese or Hindi, and no sandhi rules are applied to these. Ex: /nAt/ + /tAlh/ = /nAttAlh/ -When a consonant is the first member of a pair with its aspirated version, pronounce it as a double aspirated consonant, no sandhi is applied. Ex: /chip/ + /pher./ = /chippher/ -When a consonant is the second member of a pair with its aspirated version, insert /a/ between them and sandhi the second consonant. Ex: /kaph/ + /pot/ = /kaphabot/ When two identical aspirated consonants are combined, unaspirate and sandhi the first, and combine them into one double consonant. Ex: /Suph/ + /ph[ae]c/ = Subph[ae]c Stress-For monosyllabic words, there is no stress. -In words with two syllables, the stress is on the second. -In polysyllabic words, (3 or more) the stress comes on the penultimate syllable. -If there is a long vowel, it gains the stress of the word. If there are multiple long vowels, stress them equally. ~ And that concludes the phonetics~
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 1:33 pm
Vocabulary ~ This section will be a list of the root words alone, from which all other words are developed.
~ t tmI - person th t. t.h Tp par. - big pit - drink pUr - old pur - bad pIn - illness prS - trouble(ed) ph s S c ch chot. - small chA - go k krt - "do" kh khUp - beautiful khA - food, eat n nAr - anger(ry) r r. r.h [rr] llhf H a ach - good, nice e A A - come [AE] U o O I
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 1:34 pm
Vocabulary ~ Here I will put all other vocabulary, which includes compound words make from combination of the root words and similar things, and also adpositions, prefixes, suffixes, or circumfixes, and other words that are purely grammatical.
~
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 1:35 pm
Writing System ~ This writing system is based completely off of Devanagari, http://www.omniglot.com/writing/devanagari.htm , the writing system of Hindi and Sanskrit, the languages that the vocabulary of this conlang is derived from, and also of Nepali and other languages past and present of the indian subcontinent. I'm using it mostly because, I think its pretty. ~ The original Devanagari is an abugida type writing system, which means that each letter in it is made up of a consonant which is always followed by an inherent vowel, in the case of Devanagari, 'ə'. A result of this is that special diacritics are needed to change that inherent vowel, and awkward combinations of characters are needed to write multiple consonants in a row. I have tried to get rid of some of those obnoxious points in my version of it. Consonants:
त - t थ - th द - d ध - dh ट - t. ठ - t.h ड - d. ढ - d.h ध़ - D प - p ब - b फ - ph भ - bh ज़ - z च - c छ - ch ज - j झ - jh क - k ख - kh ग - g घ - gh ऩ - n. ण - N म - m ड़ - r. ढ़ - r.h ऱ - [rr] ल़ - l. ऴ - l.h व - v ख़ - x ह - H
Semivowels
थ़ - T ल - l ळ - lh र - r फ़ - f न - n स - s श - S य - y व़ - w
Vowels
अ, ः - a ए, े - e आ, ा - A ऐ, ै - [ae] उ, ु - u ऊ, ू - U ओ, ो - o औ, ौ - O इ, ि - i ई, ी - I
~ Everything is written from left to right as in English. One long connecting top bar links all letters in a word together. The period is represented by a single vertical line( l ), paragraph divisions by two vertical lines. ( ll ) Comma is the same, in place of "___", '___' is used. Notice that for the vowels, I put 2 symbols. This is because, in the original Devanagari writing system, on order to change the inherent vowel into another, they would use those symbols attached to the original letter to change the vowel. This is the second version that I have listed there. (The dotted circle represents the original letter so that you can see where the thing can be placed.) Ex: त - ta, ता - ta, ती - tii, तू - tuu In my revised Devanagari, the inherent vowel is removed, but I kept these alternate vowel forms, because they save space and they are pretty. The first form of the vowel I have listed there is the form used when it comes at the beginning of a word or after another vowel. I don't want to spend a million years describing this, so I'll do this. ध़ः कव़िक बरैव़न फ़ौकस जःमपद ओव़वर ध़ः लेईज़ई दऔग l - (in my bizzare system) Da kwik br[ae]wn fOks jampd owvr Da leIzI dOg - The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog. Analyze that, and you should be able to figure it out. If not, ask and I shall tell. (You can download this font here http://www.kikiat.com/hindi/index.html . It is a standard Devanagari font. To put dots under characters there that they don't have on that panel, put this ़ after the character you want to have the dot. For many sounds that aren't in Hindi, I added dots to already existing characters, and you'll need that little thing to be able to do that. You can also use that font for writing in Hindi, Nepali, Sanskrit, or whatever.)
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 7:26 pm
Everything Else! ~ From this point on, I will put down random grammar rules & the like as they are developed. ~
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Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 1:09 am
Saying that Stuff is other Stuff Lets take the sentence, "Food is good". In पजबोड़, this would translate literally to "Good, food." खा - /khA/ - food अछ - /ach/ - good, nice Ex: अछ, खाने l - /ach, khAne./ - (lit.)"Good, food the." Food is good. (General Statement.) This is the basic way to make a statement that something is something. Where in English you say (X is Y), in पजबोड़ you would say (Y, X) - About ने - /ne/. This a final particle indicating the generic mood. Where in English, when you make a nonspecific statement, it can be interpreted as an inherent generalization. "Cats are fuzzy", "Bacon is tasty", "Elephants are big." This /ne/ particle indicates that you are making an generalization about "whatever" in general, food in this case. In this language, the mood must always be explicitly stated. This is unlike English, where the mood is pretty much always left to be implied context. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammatical_mood There is also no need to pluralize the subject like in English. /ne/ is always combined with the word it follows. Since in the first example, /khA/ ends with a vowel, there is no sandhi needed. But if it was not a vowel, there would be. Ex:छोट - /chot./ - small चिड़ - /cir./ - bird बुर - /bur/ - bad बःच - /bac/ - child छोट, जिल़ऩे l - /chot. , cil.n.e/ - Birds are small. /r./ changes to /l./ and since /l./ is a retroflex consonant, /n/ also must be. So, /cir./ + /ne/ = /chil.n.e/ बुर, बःचमे l - /bur, bajme/ - Children are bad. Standard sandhi rules apply. /bac/ + /ne/ = /bajme/ And that is how you make a general statement that "something is something".
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Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 6:17 am
I'm learning basic hindi this summer. I was so proud when I successfully wrote "I love my cat" yesterday, my second full day of learning the language. On Monday, we're watching "Bend it like Beckham" and eating Indian food xp
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Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 10:31 am
हाँ, हिन्दी फाफ़ी अच्छा है l लेकिन, why did you post that in here?
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Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 11:51 am
Stuff About Nouns and Adjectives This needs to be explained. There is no clear distinction between nouns and adjectives. Take /par./, big, for example. It can mean 'big', or 'bigness', or even 'something that is big'. Because of the way nouns are compounded together, there is no need to distinguish. In the same way, words that seem to be nouns also are adjectives, though they don't have comfortable English equivalents. /khA/ for example, roughly means 'food', but also 'food' in the sense of an adjective, 'foody', or 'like food' you could say, even though in English, that makes little sense. Because of that, there is a pretty good amount of interpretation allowed on the exact meaning of a word. Really, there is not an 'exact' meaning. The general meaning is obvious, but a lot of it is up to the reader to decide. In this way, it is much less precise than English, though it is more precise in other aspects. - A random example: Say there is a word खूबख़ातमी, or /khUbxAtmI/, from the roots wich roughly mean, /khUp/, beauty, /khA/, food, and /tmI/, person. So, what does this mean? 'beautiful food person'? A good looking guy made of food? A person who makes nice food? It is annoyingly obscure. It usually should not be quite so vague, because when put context, it should be more obvious what the meaning is that when the word is alone. Also, because of the looseness in meaning, when I give the definition of a root word, I just will give a word or two in noun form to describe the meaning instead of listing a bunch of possible random words. But still be aware of the inherent adjectiveness and all that of the word.
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Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 12:46 pm
I posted it because you mentioned you were borrowing some parts from Hindi 3nodding
Would you like me to delete my post so you can have more posts in a row?
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Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 2:17 pm
Its okay, it doesn't matter.
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