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ImaginaryQuicksilver Vice Captain
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Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2004 10:04 am
What aspects of astrology do you find yourself questioning?
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Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2004 10:07 am
Personally, I wonder about the elements.
For example, I don't think Sagittarius really fits fire all that well. They don't have fire's passion and ambition. Also, Fires tend to take things more seriously (you injure their pride, they'll slaughter you type of thing). Sagittarius attends to life much more casually and jovially. I think they should be Air signs. They share Air's tactlessness, flexibility, need to communicate and intellectuality. I can see Sagittarius bearing some fiery traits though (the adventurousness and initiative).
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ImaginaryQuicksilver Vice Captain
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ImaginaryQuicksilver Vice Captain
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Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2004 10:16 am
A sign I have a lot of trouble with has to be Scorpio.
When I say trouble, I don't mean I don't get along with them. I just don't agree with their description. I've met about 15 Scorpio suns IRL and only 1 of them even slightly fit their outward description. They say Scorpios are silent, observant, very perceptive and manipulative. I haven't seen any of these traits extremely prominent. Also they mention Scorpio having an odd kind of feel to them and intense eyes. Never met a Scorpio with those either. And I haven't met many secretive Scorpios even though they are famous for this trait. I believe the description of Scorpio, for the most part, is correct. But the descriptions exaggerate quite a bit (secrecy, passion, obsessiveness, 'power'). I even saw one site saying "Scorpios know the meaning to life. They just don't tell anyone" I have yet to meet a stereotypical Scorpio. I know a few people who FIT stereotypical Scorpios, but oddly enough, they don't possess many Scorpio planetary positions nor influences (no stelliums and such). Not a single Scorpio sun sign fit their description stereotypically I have seen.
Don't bother jumping "No one really knows the heart of a Scorpio...they're just fooling you nicely you see?" That doesn't apply only to Scorpio. That's how almost all humans are. We have facades that protect our vulnerable squishy stuff.
To correct this problem, I suggest we remove Pluto as Scorpio's co-ruler. That will fix it. Then we don't have this whole "wheeee death-like Pluto/Hades" thing involved. That'll mitigate the exaggerated qualities to a more practical level.
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Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2004 10:21 am
Another thing:
Who assigned the planets to the signs anyway? Pluto was only discovered in 1930s. Who gave that to Scorpio and why? Who says Pisces has a co-ruler of Jupiter? I've never quite understood that. Jupiter is supposed take more initiative, be optimistic and expansive. Pisceans don't tend to do that. Neptune seems to fit Pisceans fine. Although I suppose Jupiter's generosity and Piscean selflessness go about the same vibe? So many questions and no book nor site gives me the answer stare
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ImaginaryQuicksilver Vice Captain
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ImaginaryQuicksilver Vice Captain
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Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2004 10:27 am
Why does astrology work?
How can a few planetary transits when you were born affect you 50 years later, especially when you have innumerable planetary transits happening to you throughout your life? Why does the one of birth bear the most significance? If you think about it, it doesn't make sense each sign is exactly 30 degrees. For example, Scorpio is a huge sign whereas Aries is much smaller. How can they have the same amount of degrees? Anyone hear of precession(sp?)? The earth wobbles and that throws the signs off. Also, Ophiucus is another constellation that's been progressively pushing its way into the line of zodiac signs too. That messes up all the dates. http://home.insightbb.com/~dishhead/astrology.html (Go here) So technically none of these natal charts should be accurate yet they very much are. Someone told me they explained WHY astrology works through quantum physics, but wouldn't tell me how and who.
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Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2004 2:50 pm
I've always wondered how and who developed the system of astrology as it is today. And what planets ruled what before the "newer" ones were discovered... things like that.
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Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 7:57 am
ImaginaryQuicksilver Personally, I wonder about the elements. For example, I don't think Sagittarius really fits fire all that well. They don't have fire's passion and ambition. Also, Fires tend to take things more seriously (you injure their pride, they'll slaughter you type of thing). Sagittarius attends to life much more casually and jovially. I think they should be Air signs. They share Air's tactlessness, flexibility, need to communicate and intellectuality. I can see Sagittarius bearing some fiery traits though (the adventurousness and initiative). I agree with you on this. I had always mistaken Sagittarius for an air sign. I once read that long long ago, the elements of the signs were not what it is today at all. It actually goes like this: Aries, Taurus, Gemini = Earth Cancer, Leo, Virgo = Water Libra, Scorpio, Sagittarius = Air Capricorn, Aquarius, Pisces = Fire Isn't that strange? Anyway these correspondences still hold true in the Qabalistic tradition. But in astrology, we have what we have now. Hehehe...
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Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 8:44 am
ImaginaryQuicksilver A sign I have a lot of trouble with has to be Scorpio. When I say trouble, I don't mean I don't get along with them. I just don't agree with their description. I've met about 15 Scorpio suns IRL and only 1 of them even slightly fit their outward description. They say Scorpios are silent, observant, very perceptive and manipulative. I haven't seen any of these traits extremely prominent. Also they mention Scorpio having an odd kind of feel to them and intense eyes. Never met a Scorpio with those either. And I haven't met many secretive Scorpios even though they are famous for this trait. Don't try the sun signs. How old are you by the way? If you're young, most people your age will not act like their sun signs much. They will instead act more like their Ascendant (AC) or rising signs. Quote: I believe the description of Scorpio, for the most part, is correct. But the descriptions exaggerate quite a bit (secrecy, passion, obsessiveness, 'power'). I even saw one site saying "Scorpios know the meaning to life. They just don't tell anyone" It is true that their descriptions are kinda exaggerated. Some Scorpios don't even act like that I know. What you need to do is not to single out their sun signs alone. If you want to know the intensity of the influence of Scorpio in a person, look to the angles between the planets instead. Are there Trines (or the other 'easy' aspects) to his/her sun in Scorpio? If so with what planets? Or maybe all the Scorpio suns you met have got some REALLY different ACs. Quote: I have yet to meet a stereotypical Scorpio. I know a few people who FIT stereotypical Scorpios, but oddly enough, they don't possess many Scorpio planetary positions nor influences (no stelliums and such). Not a single Scorpio sun sign fit their description stereotypically I have seen. Try looking at the 8th house or aspects to the planet Pluto. Quote: Don't bother jumping "No one really knows the heart of a Scorpio...they're just fooling you nicely you see?" That doesn't apply only to Scorpio. That's how almost all humans are. We have facades that protect our vulnerable squishy stuff. No, you're right. It doesn't only apply to Scorpios. It also applies to people whose AC is very different from their sun signs. Quote: To correct this problem, I suggest we remove Pluto as Scorpio's co-ruler. That will fix it. Then we don't have this whole "wheeee death-like Pluto/Hades" thing involved. That'll mitigate the exaggerated qualities to a more practical level. No! We can't! Scorpios are very much about life and death. Especially AC Scorpios. Many have seen deaths first hand, or have esperienced others close to them dying before them. And most have somewhat of a 'handicap' in their lives which later spurrs them on to excel at whatever cost, because they needed power and control over their environments so much.
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Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 9:17 am
ImaginaryQuicksilver Another thing: Who assigned the planets to the signs anyway? Pluto was only discovered in 1930s. Who gave that to Scorpio and why? Who says Pisces has a co-ruler of Jupiter? I've never quite understood that. Jupiter is supposed take more initiative, be optimistic and expansive. Pisceans don't tend to do that. Neptune seems to fit Pisceans fine. Although I suppose Jupiter's generosity and Piscean selflessness go about the same vibe? So many questions and no book nor site gives me the answer stare Well, the role that Jupiter was playing in the zodiac of Pisces was 'expansion'. And I'm not aware that Jupiter is initiative. Jupiter broadens a Pisces's mind. It is because of Jupiter that Pisces can have an unlimited amount of imagination and fantasies. In a way also, Pisces can also seem to be optismistic. The fact that they are dreamers already make them optismistic, don't you think? I believe Pisces have huge dreams. They just do not have the means or maybe even make the effort to make them come true. Pisces being water, does not bounce back from setbacks as quicly as Sagittarius. So perhaps that is why others would have the opinion that Pisces people are not optismistic. I thought they are. At the beginning of course. But when something doesnt work out, they sorta go into withdrawal - a common sign with all water signs. So if you want to compare Sag and Pisces, of course, Sag would win hands down on optismism. Maybe it's because Sag is a Fire sign or maybe because Sag has got all the full characteristics of Jupiter without any mitigating factors (like Pisces have Neptune). In my opinion, the newly discovered planets play a bigger role in Pisces, Scorpio and Aquarius. However, both planets would also need to be taken in consideration if you want to explain the characteristics of the zodiac thoroughly.
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Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 9:19 am
About the rant on Scorpio. Heh, I can understand that. Maybe it's because you've never met a Scorpio that you are thinking that way.
I've had a few Scorpios in my life and I can't help but know them for what they are. Other than that, I'm a Cancer in the Scorpio decan with 3 planets (Sun, Mecury + Mars in the 8th house) so I can understand where they're coming from.
In primary school, one of my best friend was a Scorpio. But because of a light hearted joke I said (blame my Sag AC), she said she'd not speak to me for ever. Just like that! And indeed, I have not spoken anything to her until now except a 'hi' when I do still meet her on the streets after our school days. She is a Scorpio sun. I hadn't learnt how to read the whole natal chart back then.
From the above example, we can see the Plutonian energies at work - power over others. When she decided not to speak to me, it is a show of firstly, her control over herself and consequently, her control over me. When a Scorpio says something, they always mean it. And with intensity too. Pluto lends stamina to Scorpio as oppossed to Aries which is only governed by Mars alone. If you compare Aries and Scorpio, well, Aries can say, "I'm going to send my army to raze you down!!!" The moment those words are out of their mouths did they realise that not only do they not have an army, they are also over-exagerating in the heat of the moment. They either calmed down or they would've moved on. The second being the more feasible possibility.
Scorpio on the other hand, if they hate, they do not display that quick war-like qualities of Mars. Sometimes I think that Pluto alone is the ruler of Scorpio. Their hate is always there, even if they DO forgive (which isn't likely) they still do not forget. And they do play all kinds of emotional games or blackmail with you.
One example would be my ex. The relationship wasn't working out and I think we both know it. But he wanted to cling to me and used all sorts of emotional blackmail, the worst being suicide threats.
I think that was pretty Scorpio/Plutionian, don't you think? Death, intensity, the darker side of the feelings of love or rather obsession? He was a sun Scorpio/Libra cusp case.
Another example of Scorpio. He's a Scorpio rising guy. Totally enigmatic and mysterious with the mesmerising, magnectic Scorpio eyes! (Sometimes I think that AC Scorpios are easier to spot than Sun Scorpios.) And he was totally sexy as well. He is very very secretive about his personal life. Unless you happened to pass through his rising and there's a semblance of trust between you and him, he'd never tell you ANYTHING! I learnt about this when I started asking his 'friends' if he is 'this-this-this' or 'that-that-that' and his friends was like, "He never told me such things, how did you know?" Or even some of his close friends, when they hear me ask them about his personal life, they looked at me with reallly round eyes and said, "He told you all that? Wow! It took me like 5 years to get that much information from him!"
So yeah, they really really are secretive. In the above case, because his is only the rising, I guess he ceased to be secretive with me once he thought that I was his friend. Basically way past the first impression AC stuffs.
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ImaginaryQuicksilver Vice Captain
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Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 2:22 am
opalsnow I agree with you on this. I had always mistaken Sagittarius for an air sign. I once read that long long ago, the elements of the signs were not what it is today at all. It actually goes like this: Aries, Taurus, Gemini = Earth Cancer, Leo, Virgo = Water Libra, Scorpio, Sagittarius = Air Capricorn, Aquarius, Pisces = Fire Isn't that strange? Anyway these correspondences still hold true in the Qabalistic tradition. But in astrology, we have what we have now. Hehehe... Interesting...o_o Thought that Scorpio was previously a fire sign, but then they decided it was water. Maybe that's a different tradition.
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Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 2:25 am
opalsnow In a way also, Pisces can also seem to be optismistic. The fact that they are dreamers already make them optismistic, don't you think? I believe Pisces have huge dreams. They just do not have the means or maybe even make the effort to make them come true. Pisces being water, does not bounce back from setbacks as quicly as Sagittarius. So perhaps that is why others would have the opinion that Pisces people are not optismistic. I thought they are. At the beginning of course. But when something doesnt work out, they sorta go into withdrawal - a common sign with all water signs. So if you want to compare Sag and Pisces, of course, Sag would win hands down on optismism. Maybe it's because Sag is a Fire sign or maybe because Sag has got all the full characteristics of Jupiter without any mitigating factors (like Pisces have Neptune). In my opinion, the newly discovered planets play a bigger role in Pisces, Scorpio and Aquarius. However, both planets would also need to be taken in consideration if you want to explain the characteristics of the zodiac thoroughly. Sure they can be optimistic too, but many times they seem to lean toward pessimism when reality strikes. Don't know if you can even pin them to being optimistic or pessimistic either. It depends on many things in their charts. Still can see where you're coming from though, but that Neptune describes Pisces much better. Did you know some astrologers are determined there's some planet out there called Vulcan? It's either supposed to be ruling Virgo or Taurus...can't remember which one.
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ImaginaryQuicksilver Vice Captain
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ImaginaryQuicksilver Vice Captain
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Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 2:39 am
I have met Scorpios. That's the whole reason I posted that 'disagreement'. It's not that the entire description is wrong- I don't for a second advocate that. The problem lies in many astrology sites. They keep talking about Scorpio as if they were some god, exaggerating all of the traits they have to extremes then defending themselves by saying 'Scorpio is the sign of extremes'. Can you believe some site said "All Scorpios know the meaning of life, but will never tell you!" That's true. They might. Honestly though....it's thorough flattery bursting out of the words' breeches and ears. Heheh. Kinda ironic, because they also stated Scorpios aren't fond of flattery.
Scorpios aren't mysterious to me than many other signs. I can understand them pretty well. Could be because I too have my share of Scorpio influence, but I act Scorpionic contrary to what I was arguing. Sounds hypocritical? It probably does. Initially thought after this whole Scorpio conflict that maybe this occurred from a combo of different influences.
Anyways. Have met a couple of Scorpio ascendants. They don't have those stereotypical mesmerizing Scorpio eyes. You know what's strange? Most people I've met that acted a lot like Scorpios aren't Scorpios nor have much Scorpio influence in their charts. The Scorpios I run into are loudmouth and such- a bit more Aries than anything. Additionally many of those Scorpios scream random stuff about their life across the room. Hence this goes back to how the descriptions are exaggerated. Maybe I simply have strange luck?
Mars is certainly involved with Scorpio. You cannot have a revolution (Pluto) with some activation (Mars). It gives them the energy to keep going and at least (talking completely stereotypical here) Mars gives supplies the constant energy for Scorpio's sex charm and intense emotions. Kind of like Mars is sunlight yet Pluto is a plant. Pluto decides to either ignore what's given and burn or utilize this (wooo photosynthesis).
Taking that Ascendant comment with a grain of salt. From personal experience, it's not that heavy of an influence. Teens act like a mixture of Sun/Moon/Asc (and all those other things) like adults except with more moodier hormones.
Additionally about that ascendant thing: You said to keep searching for 8th house planets and such if their sun sign or ascendant didn't fit perfectly. Then you said that guy was so stereotypical of his ascendant just to prove how the influence shines through. A bit of a contradiction. With him, there may've been other chart configurations that made him even more Scorpionic (ascendant) than the average. For example, my generation has Pluto in Scorpio. So when someone has a Scorpio ascendant, it should be doubly prominent- not always true. Looked for aspects between planets too. This one person had 5 positions in Scorpio (sun, ascendant, mercury, venus, pluto). There's no arguing THAT influence! Was she stereotypical? Not really. She did, however, possess Scorpio's intense emotions, grudges and a vengeance, but she went about it much more Arian like if anything. That's the reason I wrote that disagreement.
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Posted: Sat May 07, 2005 9:05 pm
My best friend is a Scorpio. I say the usual description fits her pretty well.
She can burn a hole through your forehead with her death stare. She becomes very obsessive and intensely passionate about things and is defensive of her obsessions even when she knows it isn't practical anymore. Loyalty and betrayal are enormous issues in her book. She takes revenge on people. Yeah...
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Posted: Sun May 08, 2005 8:40 am
ImaginaryQuicksilver Additionally about that ascendant thing: You said to keep searching for 8th house planets and such if their sun sign or ascendant didn't fit perfectly. Then you said that guy was so stereotypical of his ascendant just to prove how the influence shines through. A bit of a contradiction. With him, there may've been other chart configurations that made him even more Scorpionic (ascendant) than the average. For example, my generation has Pluto in Scorpio. So when someone has a Scorpio ascendant, it should be doubly prominent- not always true. Looked for aspects between planets too. This one person had 5 positions in Scorpio (sun, ascendant, mercury, venus, pluto). There's no arguing THAT influence! Was she stereotypical? Not really. She did, however, possess Scorpio's intense emotions, grudges and a vengeance, but she went about it much more Arian like if anything. That's the reason I wrote that disagreement. Hehe, for that AC guy, I meant to say that only when I first met him, I felt this 'scorpio' vibe from him. Later when I earned his trust, he is not at all like a Scorpio anymore.
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