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Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 6:30 pm
It seems that I'm drifting towards the internal kung fu styles, from my previously Japanese-centric outlook on martial arts. There's a little academy that has short 1-hour sessions per week just a 5-minute train ride away from my suburb here, and my girlfriend ends up taking Qi Gong there while I do Chen-style Tai Chi.
Why am I drifting that way?
Actually, it's because I hate sweating. Believe it or not. xp
What are your thoughts on Tai Chi? ninja
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Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 6:42 pm
Forgot to say; it's probably a good idea to learn a martial art I can still use when I'm old as ********. rofl
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Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 10:48 pm
Yes, I too have been experaincing the chi side of Kung-Fu. My class studies Chi a lot after our work out. It's very interesting. I really like it.
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Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 9:05 am
Triste It seems that I'm drifting towards the internal kung fu styles, from my previously Japanese-centric outlook on martial arts. There's a little academy that has short 1-hour sessions per week just a 5-minute train ride away from my suburb here, and my girlfriend ends up taking Qi Gong there while I do Chen-style Tai Chi. Why am I drifting that way? Actually, it's because I hate sweating. Believe it or not. xp What are your thoughts on Tai Chi? ninja Extremely hard to master properly, effective as hell once mastered and sped up. At least that's what I've heard. However, it's really important that you find a good master to study under for Tai Chi as it is one of the ones that are mor suspectible to hippie-type-bullshido. (Tae Kwan Do, for instance, is more suspectible to corportate-type-bullshido) This is most likely because the idea of Chi/Ki is almost mystical and alot of people don't treat exercises involving those practically in a sense. (I don't think I am explaining myself well enough here..)
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Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 5:51 pm
I'm not susceptible to bullshido, I say. There are plenty of weirder, unexplainable s**t that have happened to my family/relatives and friends that are just too crazy to even imagine happening in this world.
In any case, I take what people say with a grain of salt unless I know the person well enough to know they're not bullshitting, or when I actually see it with my own eyes. ninja
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Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 7:19 pm
I don't believe in Chi at ALL.
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Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 9:00 pm
Mirko_Filipovic I don't believe in Chi at ALL. More power to you. At least tell us why? ninja
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Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 9:46 pm
Triste Mirko_Filipovic I don't believe in Chi at ALL. More power to you. At least tell us why? ninja Been my experience that Chi = an excuse as to why someone can't do something. Such as an excuse to get out of something, like it's too powerful for me to use. Anything along that lines.
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Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 9:52 pm
Mirko_Filipovic Triste Mirko_Filipovic I don't believe in Chi at ALL. More power to you. At least tell us why? ninja Been my experience that Chi = an excuse as to why someone can't do something. Such as an excuse to get out of something, like it's too powerful for me to use. Anything along that lines. That's very true. In the dojo, it almost seems like something magical that others can but I can't do. All they can say is "use your ki" but it's like "...." Why can they do it and I can't? Sometimes it's really physics. I know in my school, there is one simple ki exercises of trying to move someone. I find if I put my hand a certain way, then it works, not because of ki, but because of physics and how it weakens a person's grip if you position your arm in a certain way. So that was it, problem solved. That was, until I noticed that only novices relied on that. The black belts did nto position their bodies at all but simply did it, without using muscles either. (You can feel if they are using muscles because the arm/hand you are holding will tense up.) So how? Most people can only explain it as using ki instead of muscles. So far, what I have analysed ki to be, is a combination of relaxing your body and controlling of breathing. But so far, I haven't quite figured out what's the rest of the equation yet...
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Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 10:40 pm
Mirko_Filipovic Been my experience that Chi = an excuse as to why someone can't do something. Such as an excuse to get out of something, like it's too powerful for me to use. Anything along that lines. Anything can be an excuse, really. Lunaries That's very true. In the dojo, it almost seems like something magical that others can but I can't do. All they can say is "use your ki" but it's like "...." Why can they do it and I can't? Again, it's one of the greatest sins of martial arts: not giving enough caveats that say "you will not get better if you don't practice your a** off." Lunaries Sometimes it's really physics. I know in my school, there is one simple ki exercises of trying to move someone. I find if I put my hand a certain way, then it works, not because of ki, but because of physics and how it weakens a person's grip if you position your arm in a certain way. So that was it, problem solved. There's that 'unbendable arm' trick, as well. Heheh. Lunaries That was, until I noticed that only novices relied on that. The black belts did nto position their bodies at all but simply did it, without using muscles either. (You can feel if they are using muscles because the arm/hand you are holding will tense up.) So how? Most people can only explain it as using ki instead of muscles. If we analyze it physically, then the logical explanation would be because the black belts (or whoever's more experienced) have done it time and time again, so much that they've already started using the 'core' of the movement, i.e. only using the muscles/moves/angles/etc. that they need to do it. Whereas the ones who are new to something will need to exaggerate their movements. Lunaries So far, what I have analysed ki to be, is a combination of relaxing your body and controlling of breathing. But so far, I haven't quite figured out what's the rest of the equation yet... That's the very Aikido kind of thought. But somehow I think there's just a 'little' bit more behind that definition. We'll find out, I suppose. ninja
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Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 11:42 pm
Triste Again, it's one of the greatest sins of martial arts: not giving enough caveats that say "you will not get better if you don't practice your a** off." So true. It's why the kyu system was created in Aikido as students often got discouraged. Heh I've been around long enough to know that it takes alot of practice, then one day, suddenly it will happen like a lightbulb being turned on. I've had that happened once or twice to a particular technique. Hey, as sensei says, training is its own reward. Just like everything, if you have a passion for it, it will come eventually. Triste If we analyze it physically, then the logical explanation would be because the black belts (or whoever's more experienced) have done it time and time again, so much that they've already started using the 'core' of the movement, i.e. only using the muscles/moves/angles/etc. that they need to do it. Whereas the ones who are new to something will need to exaggerate their movements. No disagreement there. In fact, sensei tells us that these are exaggerations and we practice in exaggerations when prepping for demos. But also, I think the reason why the black belts cannot explain it clearly is because of two things. One, they've done it for so long now, they've forgotten what it's like to be a beginner so it's harder to explain. Two, because for each person it's different. Though the theory is the same, there are too many variables between each person to be able to explain the technique and teach it to 100% effectiveness. You can't say move 45 degrees here, because each person's body, balance, flexibility, muscle mass, etc are too different. Too many variables. Triste That's the very Aikido kind of thought. But somehow I think there's just a 'little' bit more behind that definition. We'll find out, I suppose. ninja Hahaha yeah, very aikido, I've been brainwashed blaugh But I agree, there must be something more than that. One day I'll figure it out. Actually, as a comp sci student, one day I may go back to school and as a masters research, put body movement trackers on martial artists while they spar then translate to animation for analysis purpose. Would make an interesting thesis.
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Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 11:53 pm
Lunaries No disagreement there. In fact, sensei tells us that these are exaggerations and we practice in exaggerations when prepping for demos. But also, I think the reason why the black belts cannot explain it clearly is because of two things. One, they've done it for so long now, they've forgotten what it's like to be a beginner so it's harder to explain. Two, because for each person it's different. Though the theory is the same, there are too many variables between each person to be able to explain the technique and teach it to 100% effectiveness. You can't say move 45 degrees here, because each person's body, balance, flexibility, muscle mass, etc are too different. Too many variables. Which is why it's a great idea to look for dojos where the head instructor has about your size; you learn more. ninja Lunaries Hahaha yeah, very aikido, I've been brainwashed blaugh But I agree, there must be something more than that. One day I'll figure it out. Actually, as a comp sci student, one day I may go back to school and as a masters research, put body movement trackers on martial artists while they spar then translate to animation for analysis purpose. Would make an interesting thesis. It's an interesting idea, I suppose. I doubt that it's something to do with physical movements only: like I said, something 'more', eh? On a side note, the pentjak silat arts of Indonesia have a lot of rituals that include the supernatural in it. And I am NOT bullshitting you. sweatdrop
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Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 12:07 am
Triste Which is why it's a great idea to look for dojos where the head instructor has about your size; you learn more. ninja hahah I never thought of it that way actually but my instructor is about my size, except he's male. He keeps showing me this video of a japanese female doing aikido though as if trying to encourage me saying that I can beat up all the guys in the dojo. blaugh But to get back to being serious, yes, sensei interestingly also teach in consideration of different sizes, often speaking. "If you are up against a person much taller" or "if your opponent is much shorter" and actually make the other person squat down or try to stand taller as demostration for approximate distances. I find that to be quite helpful especially since we have quite varying sizes in the dojo. Triste It's an interesting idea, I suppose. I doubt that it's something to do with physical movements only: like I said, something 'more', eh? On a side note, the pentjak silat arts of Indonesia have a lot of rituals that include the supernatural in it. And I am NOT bullshitting you. sweatdrop Aye, something more. Actually, I'm a pagan and I actually stumbled on a Wiccan book that spoke of a comparision between Wicca and Aikido. Now I may be a pagan but I'm also a practical person and have always kept my spirituality separate from my training, perhaps too much even, for fear of falling into the hippie-bullshido trend. So I rely mostly on explanations from physics (fulcrum, momentum, force) Still I found the similiarities in both theoretically quite similiar.
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Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 12:10 am
i thought it was spelt pencak silat... anyway.
All the arts i have practiced have had nothing to do with ki/chi/whatever the ******** you want to call it. I've sparred with people that have done arts like that. And it wasn't a pretty site. Aikido = ineffective against sambo.
Apparently Russian Power > Ki.
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Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 12:21 am
Mirko_Filipovic i thought it was spelt pencak silat... anyway. All the arts i have practiced have had nothing to do with ki/chi/whatever the ******** you want to call it. I've sparred with people that have done arts like that. And it wasn't a pretty site. Aikido = ineffective against sambo. Apparently Russian Power > Ki. Ah, the debate over the effectiveness of Aikido again. I suppose it is my duty to defend my art. May I ask who were you sparring with in Aikido? What kyu or dan were they? I have to say, that with Aikido, you have to be a black belt in order to be able to use the techniques well, and probably around 2nd dan to be able to use it effectively in a spar. That's the nature of the martial arts, it takes that much longer to truly master. A fresh black belt in Aikido will have little chance against someone of another martial arts of the same level.
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