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Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 3:38 am
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Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 1:04 pm
First off, your sig makes me want to read the manga BADLY. Furthermore, if Superman is also susceptible to Aizen's shikai, I see grim chances of him evading defeat. If Superman even gets to Aizen, I still don't see a clearcut victory for him. Remember how fast Aizen is, also remember how large of hits we've seen others take. Now remember that Aizen is exponentially stronger.
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Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 7:52 pm
rikeen90 First off, your sig makes me want to read the manga BADLY. Furthermore, if Superman is also susceptible to Aizen's shikai, I see grim chances of him evading defeat. If Superman even gets to Aizen, I still don't see a clearcut victory for him. Remember how fast Aizen is, also remember how large of hits we've seen others take. Now remember that Aizen is exponentially stronger. The largest attack in Bleach < Superman's hits. He's capable of lifting entire fortresses and tossing parts of the moon around. I'd say the only thing really on the DC scale in Bleach is a Cero, but no one's taken one of those absolutely effortlessly- not even an Espada Member. Speed's a non issue as well- I would say that, at best, Shunpo is lightspeed. Superman SOMEHOW manages to surpass that in precrisis mode, and even Post-crisis Supes is capable of traveling at that speed (if he's not holding back for the sake of the planet). If Kyouka Suigetsu works, then I could see a possible tie- there's no way to get through it short of not looking at his sword, but even if it works, nothing would tip the battle in favor of Aizen anymore- he can make himself illusory to dodge attacks, but he can't win. I think this match is WAY uneven. Any reason why you want Aizen to die, Akuki?
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Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:23 pm
Rashou rikeen90 First off, your sig makes me want to read the manga BADLY. Furthermore, if Superman is also susceptible to Aizen's shikai, I see grim chances of him evading defeat. If Superman even gets to Aizen, I still don't see a clearcut victory for him. Remember how fast Aizen is, also remember how large of hits we've seen others take. Now remember that Aizen is exponentially stronger. The largest attack in Bleach < Superman's hits. He's capable of lifting entire fortresses and tossing parts of the moon around. I'd say the only thing really on the DC scale in Bleach is a Cero, but no one's taken one of those absolutely effortlessly- not even an Espada Member. Speed's a non issue as well- I would say that, at best, Shunpo is lightspeed. Superman SOMEHOW manages to surpass that in precrisis mode, and even Post-crisis Supes is capable of traveling at that speed (if he's not holding back for the sake of the planet). If Kyouka Suigetsu works, then I could see a possible tie- there's no way to get through it short of not looking at his sword, but even if it works, nothing would tip the battle in favor of Aizen anymore- he can make himself illusory to dodge attacks, but he can't win. I think this match is WAY uneven. Any reason why you want Aizen to die, Akuki? It's actually not as uneven as you think, I already ran this by the people in CosmicBeing's thread and there was a pretty universal consensus that Aizen would win. I'll give you the 1 minute Aizen victory plan. 1. Aizen and Superman confront each other, Aizen immediately uses kyouka suigetsu(Supes has shown himself vulnerable to mental control, Maxwell Lord was using mental illusions to drive him insane just recently), and moves out of the way, while making it look like nothing has happened. He makes the illusion continue to engage superman in conversation while he moves around behind Superman. He then uses the soul ejection technique to knock supermans soul out of his body. This done he then skewers and destroys supes soul giving him total victory.(Keep in mind that Supes power is purely physical and that once he is ejected from his body he would be just as vulnerable as any other soul. Secondly since the soul ejection is basically a magic attack supes has no protection against it.) Even if we assume that Aizen didn't immediately go for the soul ejection technique with his complete hynosis he has time to basically walk around Superman all day and just keep trying things until he finds something that works. Plus you have to include that fact that superman's weakness is magic, and Aizen happens to possess an extremely powerful magic blade, and is the most powerful spellcaster within the Bleach universe.
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Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 9:43 pm
Akuki 1. Aizen and Superman confront each other, Aizen immediately uses kyouka suigetsu(Supes has shown himself vulnerable to mental control, Maxwell Lord was using mental illusions to drive him insane just recently), and moves out of the way, while making it look like nothing has happened. He makes the illusion continue to engage superman in conversation while he moves around behind Superman. He then uses the soul ejection technique to knock supermans soul out of his body. This done he then skewers and destroys supes soul giving him total victory.(Keep in mind that Supes power is purely physical and that once he is ejected from his body he would be just as vulnerable as any other soul. Secondly since the soul ejection is basically a magic attack supes has no protection against it.) I agree Kyouka would work on Superman, but if PiS and CiS or off, then Aizen reaching for his sword would get a punch to the face. If it's on, then Aizen has a MAJOR flaw in his confidence. He'd likely slowly draw his sword mockingly, and Superman would go in for the kill at a more relaxed pace, and probably wouldn't focus on the sword so much. In the second scenario, Superman may get hit with Kyouka, I can see that. So I'll go with PiS and CiS on. I can see Aizen using illusions and fooling Supes, but I just have to wonder... When did Aizen gain the ability to removes souls from their bodies?! Urahara and Rukia used special items- of which Aizen wasn't shown to have at all, much less carry on him everywhere- and Ichigo has the Shinigami insignia. Attacking his Soul is a way that Aizen can win, but he just doesn't have the equipment to do it on his form, from what we've seen. Note: The technique he used to withdraw Hougyoku was NOT Soul Ejection- it was an ability which allowed him to withdraw an item from a person who was already in a spiritual state/ghost form. Quote: Even if we assume that Aizen didn't immediately go for the soul ejection technique with his complete hynosis he has time to basically walk around Superman all day and just keep trying things until he finds something that works. Plus you have to include that fact that superman's weakness is magic, and Aizen happens to possess an extremely powerful magic blade, and is the most powerful spellcaster within the Bleach universe. Superman's not so much weak to magic, it's just that it gets past his biofield. It still has to be incredibly potent and powerful to harm him, and the most we've seen anyone in Bleach do with Kido is destroy buildings. While impressive, DC magic users of at least of that par. I don't read Superman much at all, but from what I recall in the Goku vs. Supes thread, he took a blow from a super powerful wizard without getting hurt. I think the blow actually knocked him into the center of the Earth, or something as well. And even if Superman can't perceive Aizen, he can figure out he's being fooled. He's probably even smart enough to realize the sword did it (not like that'll help, but hey) and then he can start moving super fast hitting everything in an appropriate space, or just try and keep moving to dodge attacks. EDIT: It's Advesary that I'm thinking about. He punched Superman clear to China and Supes was alright. Then Superman takes an island destroying beam. He's very briefly KO'd, but considering the difference between building busting and island busting is huge, and the amount of damage he took.... Aizen's going to be pounding for weaks with his strongest spells.
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Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 10:08 pm
Rashou Akuki 1. Aizen and Superman confront each other, Aizen immediately uses kyouka suigetsu(Supes has shown himself vulnerable to mental control, Maxwell Lord was using mental illusions to drive him insane just recently), and moves out of the way, while making it look like nothing has happened. He makes the illusion continue to engage superman in conversation while he moves around behind Superman. He then uses the soul ejection technique to knock supermans soul out of his body. This done he then skewers and destroys supes soul giving him total victory.(Keep in mind that Supes power is purely physical and that once he is ejected from his body he would be just as vulnerable as any other soul. Secondly since the soul ejection is basically a magic attack supes has no protection against it.) I agree Kyouka would work on Superman, but if PiS and CiS or off, then Aizen reaching for his sword would get a punch to the face. If it's on, then Aizen has a MAJOR flaw in his confidence. He'd likely slowly draw his sword mockingly, and Superman would go in for the kill at a more relaxed pace, and probably wouldn't focus on the sword so much. In the second scenario, Superman may get hit with Kyouka, I can see that. So I'll go with PiS and CiS on. I can see Aizen using illusions and fooling Supes, but I just have to wonder... When did Aizen gain the ability to removes souls from their bodies?! Urahara and Rukia used special items- of which Aizen wasn't shown to have at all, much less carry on him everywhere- and Ichigo has the Shinigami insignia. Attacking his Soul is a way that Aizen can win, but he just doesn't have the equipment to do it on his form, from what we've seen. Note: The technique he used to withdraw Hougyoku was NOT Soul Ejection- it was an ability which allowed him to withdraw an item from a person who was already in a spiritual state/ghost form. Quote: Even if we assume that Aizen didn't immediately go for the soul ejection technique with his complete hynosis he has time to basically walk around Superman all day and just keep trying things until he finds something that works. Plus you have to include that fact that superman's weakness is magic, and Aizen happens to possess an extremely powerful magic blade, and is the most powerful spellcaster within the Bleach universe. Superman's not so much weak to magic, it's just that it gets past his biofield. It still has to be incredibly potent and powerful to harm him, and the most we've seen anyone in Bleach do with Kido is destroy buildings. While impressive, DC magic users of at least of that par. I don't read Superman much at all, but from what I recall in the Goku vs. Supes thread, he took a blow from a super powerful wizard without getting hurt. I think the blow actually knocked him into the center of the Earth, or something as well. And even if Superman can't perceive Aizen, he can figure out he's being fooled. He's probably even smart enough to realize the sword did it (not like that'll help, but hey) and then he can start moving super fast hitting everything in an appropriate space, or just try and keep moving to dodge attacks. EDIT: It's Advesary that I'm thinking about. He punched Superman clear to China and Supes was alright. Then Superman takes an island destroying beam. He's very briefly KO'd, but considering the difference between building busting and island busting is huge, and the amount of damage he took.... Aizen's going to be pounding for weaks with his strongest spells. You'tr overlooking one major problem. Superman usually does not come off at his strongest, and usually he will take some to tell his opponent to surrender and so forth. Secondly you have to remember that Aizen is a master at appearing harmless and unthreatening, The act of drawing is sword is unlikely to draw a response simply from the fact that Superman is so confident in his abilities that he doesn't feel he needs to go full out and disarm someone from the beginning, in fact from most of his fights I have read he usually lets his opponents take the first shot so long as there are no one in immediate danger, in oder to impress upon them how useless the fight is. Second point, the soul ejection item seems to be a relatively common item and standard Shinigami piece of equipment. Even if he didn't have it on him at the beginning of the fight Aizen could simply leave once he cast Kyouka suigetsu and then come back whenever he wants. That's the real beauty of this technique, since it's permanent Aizen can simply return anytime he wants to test out a new item or technique on Supes, and supes won't even be concious of it. Plus the fact that one of the key advantages of this is that Kyouka suigetsu can be made to appear seamless with the reality before and after. Aizen can just make Supes think that there was a fight and that he escaped and then meanwhile just keep hammering at him. I mean with Suigetsu he could basically live in Supes house for a year just meddling with him and slowly figuring out what will work. Plus since he can't be percieved he can do things like walking right up to superman and firing his most powerful spells straight into his mouth towards his brain. You have to remember that Aizen has an amazing capacity for patience, after all he was undercover for hundreds of years.
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Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 8:20 am
I think that Superman would probably let his own confidence get the better of him, and he probably would fall under Aizen's hypnosis, but Unohana was able to figure out she was being tricked with Aizen's ability. She didn't know how, but she knew there was something going on. Superman would definitely be able to figure that out, because Aizen's got overwhelming confidence when he believes a plan has gone off without a hitch. He'll likely keep toying with Superman instead of going for the kill, allowing Supes to better grasp his situation.
The Ginkogan Soul Ejection pills are the only thing I would see as standard, but not even Aizen's Shikai would allow him to slip Superman a pill. And I would think leaving the battlefield would count as a lost. Otherwise, Superman could leave once he realizes he's being fooled and try for centuries to figure out what's going on. Not only would he never figure out the trick, he'd have lost. But if leaving doesn't count as a loss, then Supes can do just that. Aizen has no way of keeping up with Superman once Supes ascends high enough- Space wouldn't be a soul's best friend, there would probably be even less Reiki up there than oxygen. Not to mention the speed issue.
My take on this fight has changed, but I still don't see Aizen winning. As soon as Supes figures out he's being tricked, he'll just use attacks that hit everywhere, like running around super fast to create a tornado or something. Crude, but effective! xd
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Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 10:35 am
Rashou I think that Superman would probably let his own confidence get the better of him, and he probably would fall under Aizen's hypnosis, but Unohana was able to figure out she was being tricked with Aizen's ability. She didn't know how, but she knew there was something going on. Superman would definitely be able to figure that out, because Aizen's got overwhelming confidence when he believes a plan has gone off without a hitch. He'll likely keep toying with Superman instead of going for the kill, allowing Supes to better grasp his situation. The Ginkogan Soul Ejection pills are the only thing I would see as standard, but not even Aizen's Shikai would allow him to slip Superman a pill. And I would think leaving the battlefield would count as a lost. Otherwise, Superman could leave once he realizes he's being fooled and try for centuries to figure out what's going on. Not only would he never figure out the trick, he'd have lost. But if leaving doesn't count as a loss, then Supes can do just that. Aizen has no way of keeping up with Superman once Supes ascends high enough- Space wouldn't be a soul's best friend, there would probably be even less Reiki up there than oxygen. Not to mention the speed issue. My take on this fight has changed, but I still don't see Aizen winning. As soon as Supes figures out he's being tricked, he'll just use attacks that hit everywhere, like running around super fast to create a tornado or something. Crude, but effective! xd I don't see how leaving the battlefield could be counted as a loss. It's really a matter of who gets the final victory.But Aizen doesn't need to immediately follow Superman since he knows where to look for him. Also he is very patient and knows how to research is opponents very well. After all he knew what Urahara and Ichigo were up to even before Soul Society even knew of their existence.( I mean with his powers getting ahold of whatever he needs loke krytonite is a walk in the park) Second of all with Unohana she was able to discover something was wrong only when examining something as complicated as a corps, and even then with all of her expertise it took a long time for her to figure it out. What I'm trying to point out is that the more complicated the illusion the more likely it is to be discovered. After all he was using his illusions for hundreds of years in soul society before unohana found out. In a fight situation like this it's unlikely that he'll do anything that complicated that would give it away. Also remeber that he often will make people think he has different powers than he really does. Remeber how he made all the people in soul society think he just had a simple water shikai? Secondly even if superman did come up with that idea he has several recourses. First of all he can always use his reiatsu as a method of pinning Superman, keep in mind that the reiatsu pinning affects the soul, so Supermans ridiculous strength would really be effective against it. Also keep in mind that with Aizen's illusion he can make Superman think hes doing all those things you suggested while in reality he's just face down on the floor. Also in regards to the soul ejection items, I had always thought in the manga that they were standard shinigami items and that most Shinigami carried him. Also if Supes does get extremely violent and throwing random punches I don't think one punch will put Aizen down, and he can always just leave via the Meno's beam. Secondly If he leaves after that first encounter it shouldn't be that hard for him to find out where Superman lives by tracing his soul energy. Once he finds Superman in a situation that Supes isn't hostile and suspecting something Aizen can take him down. I mean A. he just walks up to Supes and Drops a pill in his mouth or B makes him think the pill is a sandwhich or something.
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Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 11:26 pm
Akuki I don't see how leaving the battlefield could be counted as a loss. It's really a matter of who gets the final victory.But Aizen doesn't need to immediately follow Superman since he knows where to look for him. Also he is very patient and knows how to research is opponents very well. After all he knew what Urahara and Ichigo were up to even before Soul Society even knew of their existence.( I mean with his powers getting ahold of whatever he needs loke krytonite is a walk in the park) How would he know where to look for him? And Supes wouldn't neccesarily go to the places Aizen knows about. If he thinks he's being fooled, he wouldn't neccesarily even go to Metropolis. He might go to Batman's place, or something. Aizen can't even research Superman in any reasonable sense to know where he lives and all that. He didn't KNOW about Ichigo, he just knew Urahara would send someone into Soul Society to get back Rukia. Urahara was known by EVERYONE of Soul Society, his latest actions weren't known very well, but then, who the heck cared about an outlawed Shinigami aside from Aizen? Even if Aizen did research Superman, he couldn't do it mid battle because we don't know if his illusions can be controlled well from afar (he's constantly having to shape and reshape them, as is evident from fights like the one with Hitsugaya) so it would count as prep. time. In which case Supes would get applicable prep time, and he has a far greater extension of allies than Aizen can hope to have, and he would simply be searching the afterlife as well, while Aizen has to search everywhere in the known Universe for locales Superman can run off too. Quote: Second of all with Unohana she was able to discover something was wrong only when examining something as complicated as a corps, and even then with all of her expertise it took a long time for her to figure it out. What I'm trying to point out is that the more complicated the illusion the more likely it is to be discovered. After all he was using his illusions for hundreds of years in soul society before unohana found out. I think Unohana said she recognized immediately something was wrong, but either way, I don't think it was because he tried to make a corpse. Keep in mind, before Aizen shifted his plan into action, he never said he had used ANY illusions. After he shifted his plans is when he used illusions, and in the midst of battle against a MUCH weaker opponent, like Komomaru, he made it seem like he'd disappeared when his clone was hit, but was actually standing elsewhere to begin with. Superman wouldn't turn a blind eye to something like this, and if Aizen's in character, he'd most definitely taunt someone who had been caught in his trap. Quote: In a fight situation like this it's unlikely that he'll do anything that complicated that would give it away. Also remeber that he often will make people think he has different powers than he really does. Remeber how he made all the people in soul society think he just had a simple water shikai? He does have a water Shikai, but that kind of trick would only pertain to the Gotei 13, because they're the only ones that know about Shikai and Shinigami abilities. He might give himself some extra strength or durability, but that's probably it. And as Superman pounds away at the fake Aizen, thinking he's real, he'll eventually hit too hard for Aizen's stepped up abilities to anticipate, forcing Aizen to craft another illusion, meaning Supes will get the idea he's using illusions. Also, on not doing something complicated, the human body is ALWAYS complicated. Superman can X-ray into the fake's brain and see no brain activity- he can listen for a heartbeat, and hear none. All sorts of things that would clue him in on Aizen and his abilities once it seems like he's getting no where. Quote: Secondly even if superman did come up with that idea he has several recourses. First of all he can always use his reiatsu as a method of pinning Superman, keep in mind that the reiatsu pinning affects the soul, so Supermans ridiculous strength would really be effective against it. Also keep in mind that with Aizen's illusion he can make Superman think hes doing all those things you suggested while in reality he's just face down on the floor. Actually, Reiatsu doesn't appear to pin only souls UNLESS the soul is outside the body. Tatsuki wasn't instantly crushed like a can when coming against Yami, for instance. Quote: Also in regards to the soul ejection items, I had always thought in the manga that they were standard shinigami items and that most Shinigami carried him. Not that I recall. Actually, Rukia had to pick up the Ginkogan pills and glove from Urahara. Quote: Also if Supes does get extremely violent and throwing random punches I don't think one punch will put Aizen down, and he can always just leave via the Meno's beam. A single punch probably WOULD do it in for Aizen, and if not, Superman would then feel he's hitting Aizen his super brain would then allow him to calculate trajectory and then keep up with Aizen from there. The Menos' beam = Outisde help. Though Superman could likely just break it (it says it fuels the power of a Cero into a shield, and the power of cero = atomic laser, which Superman has smacked away on more than one occasion) Quote: Secondly If he leaves after that first encounter it shouldn't be that hard for him to find out where Superman lives by tracing his soul energy. Once he finds Superman in a situation that Supes isn't hostile and suspecting something Aizen can take him down. I mean A. he just walks up to Supes and Drops a pill in his mouth or B makes him think the pill is a sandwhich or something. Tracing targets is really difficult when they have super low Reiatsu, and the difficulty increases the more distance there is. Chances are that if Supes ascended into space, Aizen couldn't follow anyway.
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Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 7:05 am
Rashou Akuki I don't see how leaving the battlefield could be counted as a loss. It's really a matter of who gets the final victory.But Aizen doesn't need to immediately follow Superman since he knows where to look for him. Also he is very patient and knows how to research is opponents very well. After all he knew what Urahara and Ichigo were up to even before Soul Society even knew of their existence.( I mean with his powers getting ahold of whatever he needs loke krytonite is a walk in the park) How would he know where to look for him? And Supes wouldn't neccesarily go to the places Aizen knows about. If he thinks he's being fooled, he wouldn't neccesarily even go to Metropolis. He might go to Batman's place, or something. Aizen can't even research Superman in any reasonable sense to know where he lives and all that. He didn't KNOW about Ichigo, he just knew Urahara would send someone into Soul Society to get back Rukia. Urahara was known by EVERYONE of Soul Society, his latest actions weren't known very well, but then, who the heck cared about an outlawed Shinigami aside from Aizen? Even if Aizen did research Superman, he couldn't do it mid battle because we don't know if his illusions can be controlled well from afar (he's constantly having to shape and reshape them, as is evident from fights like the one with Hitsugaya) so it would count as prep. time. In which case Supes would get applicable prep time, and he has a far greater extension of allies than Aizen can hope to have, and he would simply be searching the afterlife as well, while Aizen has to search everywhere in the known Universe for locales Superman can run off too. Quote: Second of all with Unohana she was able to discover something was wrong only when examining something as complicated as a corps, and even then with all of her expertise it took a long time for her to figure it out. What I'm trying to point out is that the more complicated the illusion the more likely it is to be discovered. After all he was using his illusions for hundreds of years in soul society before unohana found out. I think Unohana said she recognized immediately something was wrong, but either way, I don't think it was because he tried to make a corpse. Keep in mind, before Aizen shifted his plan into action, he never said he had used ANY illusions. After he shifted his plans is when he used illusions, and in the midst of battle against a MUCH weaker opponent, like Komomaru, he made it seem like he'd disappeared when his clone was hit, but was actually standing elsewhere to begin with. Superman wouldn't turn a blind eye to something like this, and if Aizen's in character, he'd most definitely taunt someone who had been caught in his trap. Quote: In a fight situation like this it's unlikely that he'll do anything that complicated that would give it away. Also remeber that he often will make people think he has different powers than he really does. Remeber how he made all the people in soul society think he just had a simple water shikai? He does have a water Shikai, but that kind of trick would only pertain to the Gotei 13, because they're the only ones that know about Shikai and Shinigami abilities. He might give himself some extra strength or durability, but that's probably it. And as Superman pounds away at the fake Aizen, thinking he's real, he'll eventually hit too hard for Aizen's stepped up abilities to anticipate, forcing Aizen to craft another illusion, meaning Supes will get the idea he's using illusions. Also, on not doing something complicated, the human body is ALWAYS complicated. Superman can X-ray into the fake's brain and see no brain activity- he can listen for a heartbeat, and hear none. All sorts of things that would clue him in on Aizen and his abilities once it seems like he's getting no where. Quote: Secondly even if superman did come up with that idea he has several recourses. First of all he can always use his reiatsu as a method of pinning Superman, keep in mind that the reiatsu pinning affects the soul, so Supermans ridiculous strength would really be effective against it. Also keep in mind that with Aizen's illusion he can make Superman think hes doing all those things you suggested while in reality he's just face down on the floor. Actually, Reiatsu doesn't appear to pin only souls UNLESS the soul is outside the body. Tatsuki wasn't instantly crushed like a can when coming against Yami, for instance. Quote: Also in regards to the soul ejection items, I had always thought in the manga that they were standard shinigami items and that most Shinigami carried him. Not that I recall. Actually, Rukia had to pick up the Ginkogan pills and glove from Urahara. Quote: Also if Supes does get extremely violent and throwing random punches I don't think one punch will put Aizen down, and he can always just leave via the Meno's beam. A single punch probably WOULD do it in for Aizen, and if not, Superman would then feel he's hitting Aizen his super brain would then allow him to calculate trajectory and then keep up with Aizen from there. The Menos' beam = Outisde help. Though Superman could likely just break it (it says it fuels the power of a Cero into a shield, and the power of cero = atomic laser, which Superman has smacked away on more than one occasion) Quote: Secondly If he leaves after that first encounter it shouldn't be that hard for him to find out where Superman lives by tracing his soul energy. Once he finds Superman in a situation that Supes isn't hostile and suspecting something Aizen can take him down. I mean A. he just walks up to Supes and Drops a pill in his mouth or B makes him think the pill is a sandwhich or something. Tracing targets is really difficult when they have super low Reiatsu, and the difficulty increases the more distance there is. Chances are that if Supes ascended into space, Aizen couldn't follow anyway. Ok in general I concede but I still think that at least 3-4 times out of 10 Aizen would win. I mean Supes has been controlled by characters like Poison Ivy for goodness sakes.
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Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 11:45 am
Akuki You'tr overlooking one major problem. Superman usually does not come off at his strongest, and usually he will take some to tell his opponent to surrender and so forth. Actually that is a false statement, rarely will Superman go into a fight with out the advantage. He is smart not dumb. In a lot of his fights he goes straight to the punch and at superspeed. He only controls his attacks when he knows they will seriously injure or maim/kill his opponents. You have to take into effect that in a VS match he will fight using his top performance. Akuki Secondly you have to remember that Aizen is a master at appearing harmless and unthreatening, The act of drawing is sword is unlikely to draw a response simply from the fact that Superman is so confident in his abilities that he doesn't feel he needs to go full out and disarm someone from the beginning, in fact from most of his fights I have read he usually lets his opponents take the first shot so long as there are no one in immediate danger, in oder to impress upon them how useless the fight is. You also seem to forget that Superman can move at faster than light speed. I've seen enough of BLEACH to know that there is not anything that fights at that speed. Akuki Second point, the soul ejection item seems to be a relatively common item and standard Shinigami piece of equipment. Even if he didn't have it on him at the beginning of the fight Aizen could simply leave once he cast Kyouka suigetsu and then come back whenever he wants. Can he stand up to an attack by Superman at Superspeed to be able to use it? Akuki That's the real beauty of this technique, since it's permanent Aizen can simply return anytime he wants to test out a new item or technique on Supes, and supes won't even be concious of it. Superman has gotten out of Similer Traps. The issue For the man who has everything. rings a bell. Akuki Plus the fact that one of the key advantages of this is that Kyouka suigetsu can be made to appear seamless with the reality before and after. Aizen can just make Supes think that there was a fight and that he escaped and then meanwhile just keep hammering at him. I mean with Suigetsu he could basically live in Supes house for a year just meddling with him and slowly figuring out what will work. Again he has delt with this on multiple occasions. Akuki Plus since he can't be percieved he can do things like walking right up to superman and firing his most powerful spells straight into his mouth towards his brain. You have to remember that Aizen has an amazing capacity for patience, after all he was undercover for hundreds of years. Again for this to work we have to assume that he gets the first attack off and I don't think this as easy as it seems. Can it work? Yes it can. Will it be as easy as you guys make it? I don't think so, if you dumb Superman down as bad as you have then yes.
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Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 11:51 am
Akuki Rashou Akuki I don't see how leaving the battlefield could be counted as a loss. It's really a matter of who gets the final victory.But Aizen doesn't need to immediately follow Superman since he knows where to look for him. Also he is very patient and knows how to research is opponents very well. After all he knew what Urahara and Ichigo were up to even before Soul Society even knew of their existence.( I mean with his powers getting ahold of whatever he needs loke krytonite is a walk in the park) How would he know where to look for him? And Supes wouldn't neccesarily go to the places Aizen knows about. If he thinks he's being fooled, he wouldn't neccesarily even go to Metropolis. He might go to Batman's place, or something. Aizen can't even research Superman in any reasonable sense to know where he lives and all that. He didn't KNOW about Ichigo, he just knew Urahara would send someone into Soul Society to get back Rukia. Urahara was known by EVERYONE of Soul Society, his latest actions weren't known very well, but then, who the heck cared about an outlawed Shinigami aside from Aizen? Even if Aizen did research Superman, he couldn't do it mid battle because we don't know if his illusions can be controlled well from afar (he's constantly having to shape and reshape them, as is evident from fights like the one with Hitsugaya) so it would count as prep. time. In which case Supes would get applicable prep time, and he has a far greater extension of allies than Aizen can hope to have, and he would simply be searching the afterlife as well, while Aizen has to search everywhere in the known Universe for locales Superman can run off too. Quote: Second of all with Unohana she was able to discover something was wrong only when examining something as complicated as a corps, and even then with all of her expertise it took a long time for her to figure it out. What I'm trying to point out is that the more complicated the illusion the more likely it is to be discovered. After all he was using his illusions for hundreds of years in soul society before unohana found out. I think Unohana said she recognized immediately something was wrong, but either way, I don't think it was because he tried to make a corpse. Keep in mind, before Aizen shifted his plan into action, he never said he had used ANY illusions. After he shifted his plans is when he used illusions, and in the midst of battle against a MUCH weaker opponent, like Komomaru, he made it seem like he'd disappeared when his clone was hit, but was actually standing elsewhere to begin with. Superman wouldn't turn a blind eye to something like this, and if Aizen's in character, he'd most definitely taunt someone who had been caught in his trap. Quote: In a fight situation like this it's unlikely that he'll do anything that complicated that would give it away. Also remeber that he often will make people think he has different powers than he really does. Remeber how he made all the people in soul society think he just had a simple water shikai? He does have a water Shikai, but that kind of trick would only pertain to the Gotei 13, because they're the only ones that know about Shikai and Shinigami abilities. He might give himself some extra strength or durability, but that's probably it. And as Superman pounds away at the fake Aizen, thinking he's real, he'll eventually hit too hard for Aizen's stepped up abilities to anticipate, forcing Aizen to craft another illusion, meaning Supes will get the idea he's using illusions. Also, on not doing something complicated, the human body is ALWAYS complicated. Superman can X-ray into the fake's brain and see no brain activity- he can listen for a heartbeat, and hear none. All sorts of things that would clue him in on Aizen and his abilities once it seems like he's getting no where. Quote: Secondly even if superman did come up with that idea he has several recourses. First of all he can always use his reiatsu as a method of pinning Superman, keep in mind that the reiatsu pinning affects the soul, so Supermans ridiculous strength would really be effective against it. Also keep in mind that with Aizen's illusion he can make Superman think hes doing all those things you suggested while in reality he's just face down on the floor. Actually, Reiatsu doesn't appear to pin only souls UNLESS the soul is outside the body. Tatsuki wasn't instantly crushed like a can when coming against Yami, for instance. Quote: Also in regards to the soul ejection items, I had always thought in the manga that they were standard shinigami items and that most Shinigami carried him. Not that I recall. Actually, Rukia had to pick up the Ginkogan pills and glove from Urahara. Quote: Also if Supes does get extremely violent and throwing random punches I don't think one punch will put Aizen down, and he can always just leave via the Meno's beam. A single punch probably WOULD do it in for Aizen, and if not, Superman would then feel he's hitting Aizen his super brain would then allow him to calculate trajectory and then keep up with Aizen from there. The Menos' beam = Outisde help. Though Superman could likely just break it (it says it fuels the power of a Cero into a shield, and the power of cero = atomic laser, which Superman has smacked away on more than one occasion) Quote: Secondly If he leaves after that first encounter it shouldn't be that hard for him to find out where Superman lives by tracing his soul energy. Once he finds Superman in a situation that Supes isn't hostile and suspecting something Aizen can take him down. I mean A. he just walks up to Supes and Drops a pill in his mouth or B makes him think the pill is a sandwhich or something. Tracing targets is really difficult when they have super low Reiatsu, and the difficulty increases the more distance there is. Chances are that if Supes ascended into space, Aizen couldn't follow anyway. Ok in general I concede but I still think that at least 3-4 times out of 10 Aizen would win. I mean Supes has been controlled by characters like Poison Ivy for goodness sakes. I agree with this. But for it to happen he has to be dumbed down way beyond belief. Sometimes I seem to think that not all writers do thier homework before writing or drawin the comics... stressed
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Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 1:05 pm
Akuki Ok in general I concede but I still think that at least 3-4 times out of 10 Aizen would win. I mean Supes has been controlled by characters like Poison Ivy for goodness sakes. Yeah, Aizen's definitely got some odds, but he's going to have to have everything go perfectly, including his selection of equipment for the mission of taking Superman on. Nice debating with you again, Akuki! 3nodding It's been so long since the Ichigo vs. Naruto thread!
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Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 8:00 am
is this a joke ofcourse superman would lose aizen dosent even have to move to kick his a**
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Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 2:55 am
gabriel_taltos is this a joke ofcourse superman would lose aizen dosent even have to move to kick his a** ...you bring shame to the Vs guild...
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