TKD Question

[Tsunami of Sound T or D]

So I wanted to learn what TKD actually was based on because lets face it Everyone takes shots at TKD. I've been trying it out and haven't found it up to par with the Kung Fu I've studied for the past year.

My question is this: Of all the people who take shots at TKD have actually tried it?  

[SirRidge]

I've tried it and take shots at it.  

[Mangafairy]

No, but I did a course by a TKD instructor...he called it Thai Boxing...LMAO! All we did was kick and a lil' punching....so soft, it was more TKD than Boxing... sad  

[TaeKyon]

Tsunami of Sound

So I wanted to learn what TKD actually was based on because lets face it Everyone takes shots at TKD. I've been trying it out and haven't found it up to par with the Kung Fu I've studied for the past year.

My question is this: Of all the people who take shots at TKD have actually tried it?

TKD is the Rodney Dangerfield of martial arts. (it gets no respect)

Traditional nut huggers consider it inferior because of TKD's evolution as a sport while they delude themsevles about the superiority of their supposed ancient martial art, which are usually no less diluted or historically accurate, as they quickly point out TKD's combat ineffectiveness (since it's a sport and not actually fighting) all the while as they blindly and obliviously ignore the glaring fact that their own arts usually don't train or spar any more alive or full contact (meaning they spar, assuming they spar at all, often w/ MORE restrictions which by their logic would make their own sparring training MORE unrealistic to actual fighting) than "sport" TKD.

MMA nut huggers consider it inferior because WTF TKD's history is BS, which is true but get over it, modern TKD has evolved so far from Shotokan Karate that the point is moot, the high presence of McDojos (or would it be McDojangs?) which is tragic but there are just as many non-TKD arts that have had similar McDojo-izations, crappy TKD blackbelts, (which is due to the McDojo-ness, so refer to the previous explanation, tho at least w/ bad WTF TKD fighters theoretically have had some experience w/ some full contact sparring-which is a step up compared to tag point sparring) or because it's not Kickboxing/MMA effective and neglect to accept WTF TKD to be just as fullcontact of a martial art/sport as boxing. (which is more a lack of appreciation of TKD as a unique sport in itself; it'd be like disliking Soccer because you think it's more effective to dribble the ball w/ your hands like in Basketball, it completely ignores what makes Soccer unique as a sport)

There's even disrespect among the different factions within TKD. I'll admit my slight bias here as a WTF TKD athlete but ATA is a joke since their non traditional belt system reeks of commercialism/McDojo-ism and emphasis on tag/point sparring is weak. ITF has serious identity issues as they think they're the "real traditional" TKD, which is hypocritical and to the same effect as claiming to be the "real Shotokan Karate clones," they also brag extensively about how their sparring is better because they can punch to the face (even tho technically their competitions are light to medium contact at best) not to mention that the vast majority of ITF fighters (that I've seen anyway) can't keep their hands up, (common in many "TMAists") they also suffer from many of the same issues of that plague most TMAs. WTF, as I've touched on briefly before, does have a BS origin history spurred on by their country's independence and nationalism, and you truly have to luck out and find a good school/coach or be good enough to compete at a competitive level to truly appreciate the art as a sport.  

[Woglinde]

I have practiced the "art" of Tae Kwon Do for a year, (Made me sign a damn contract) and despise it strongly, especially the McDojangs, and everyone learning from one blindly thinking they will be able to "defend themselves" in a real fight (90% of all fights end up on the ground. Good luck defending yourself in a ground fight using an art that teaches no grappling whatsoever.)  

[TaeKyon]

Woglinde

I have practiced the "art" of Tae Kwon Do for a year, (Made me sign a damn contract) and despise it strongly, especially the McDojangs, and everyone learning from one blindly thinking they will be able to "defend themselves" in a real fight (90% of all fights end up on the ground. Good luck defending yourself in a ground fight using an art that teaches no grappling whatsoever.)

"Contracts" are usually indication that the school's a McDojang. Most schools (not solely TKD) don't teach students how to effectively "defend themselves," while still claiming to. A (good) WTF TKD school will teach how to compete in the athletic sport, w/ no (or less emphasis) delusions of defending yourself in a street fight or against a grappler.  

[Woglinde]

TaeKyon

Woglinde

I have practiced the "art" of Tae Kwon Do for a year, (Made me sign a damn contract) and despise it strongly, especially the McDojangs, and everyone learning from one blindly thinking they will be able to "defend themselves" in a real fight (90% of all fights end up on the ground. Good luck defending yourself in a ground fight using an art that teaches no grappling whatsoever.)

"Contracts" are usually indication that the school's a McDojang. Most schools (not solely TKD) don't teach students how to effectively "defend themselves," while still claiming to. A (good) WTF TKD school will teach how to compete in the athletic sport, w/ no (or less emphasis) delusions of defending yourself in a street fight or against a grappler.

There is no doubt in my mind that this place is a McDojang. The guy there was only a 6th degree black belt (at the time), yet he calls himself a "Grand Master". To me, the only grand master should be the founder of the art itself, not just someone who bought a building, hung a sign outside along with pretty decorations all over calling the mentioned building a "dojo", and then "earns" the title of "Grandmaster" by the Korean government or something regardless of rank, but that doesn't matter because he owns a dojo. stare

By the way, i'm talking about average commercial TKD McDojangs people, (The ones you should all be smart enough to avoid.) so don't get all pissy with me.  

[Tatsuya_Kawajiri]

s**t sucks.  

[Miyavi San]

TKD is good, but to a certain point its not that helpful or so, isnt TKD more of a kicking thing? and its hard to block with your legs :

I tried it but didnt really sign up for it  

[TaeKyon]

Woglinde

TaeKyon

Woglinde

I have practiced the "art" of Tae Kwon Do for a year, (Made me sign a damn contract) and despise it strongly, especially the McDojangs, and everyone learning from one blindly thinking they will be able to "defend themselves" in a real fight (90% of all fights end up on the ground. Good luck defending yourself in a ground fight using an art that teaches no grappling whatsoever.)

"Contracts" are usually indication that the school's a McDojang. Most schools (not solely TKD) don't teach students how to effectively "defend themselves," while still claiming to. A (good) WTF TKD school will teach how to compete in the athletic sport, w/ no (or less emphasis) delusions of defending yourself in a street fight or against a grappler.

There is no doubt in my mind that this place is a McDojang. The guy there was only a 6th degree black belt (at the time), yet he calls himself a "Grand Master". To me, the only grand master should be the founder of the art itself, not just someone who bought a building, hung a sign outside along with pretty decorations all over calling the mentioned building a "dojo", and then "earns" the title of "Grandmaster" by the Korean government or something regardless of rank, but that doesn't matter because he owns a dojo. stare

By the way, i'm talking about average commercial TKD McDojangs people, (The ones you should all be smart enough to avoid.) so don't get all pissy with me.

In TKD, Kukkiwon (which officiates/regulates Dan rankings) officially recognizes ranks 6th dan or above as "Grand Masters" so despite your opinion your instructor was doing nothing (officially) wrong by advertising himself as a "Grandmaster." (unless he's not Kukkiwon/WTF affiliated and made up the claim himself) Using a terminology different from the native language of the martial art is also a good indication of McDojo/Dojangness. The average TKD McDojang is no better or worse than the average CMA or JMA McDojo.  

[Woglinde]

Ah ok, thanks for putting that out there. I still think the only Grand Master in an art should be the Founder him/herself.

BTW: I said that IN CASE someone gets all pissy over my comment, wasn't saying you were.  

[TaeKyon]

Woglinde

Ah ok, thanks for putting that out there. I still think the only Grand Master in an art should be the Founder him/herself.

BTW: I said that IN CASE someone gets all pissy over my comment, wasn't saying you were.

My apologies then, I read your statement as if it were addressed to me. Anyway, even if Grand Master were to be give to the founder of the art only, such a thing would be pretty impossible for Taekwondo anyway. Despite what General Choi claims, he is not the sole creator of TKD nor was any one man really. Although, 10th dan in TKD is probably the highest honor one can attain in TKD and is usually given posthumorously, so this would be more akin to your "Grandmaster/founder" idea. It's all semantics anyway.  

[The Draken]

Why do people constantly say that TKD is terrible in a fight? TKD teaches speed, height, and power. Combine them, and the fight's over in one shot. D<

Furthermore, what if you don't intend on getting into any fights? What if you just want to learn TKD? Or respect? Or good moral values?

Furthermore, TKD uses hands to block, not legs.

 

[The Draken]

TaeKyon

Woglinde

TaeKyon

Woglinde

I have practiced the "art" of Tae Kwon Do for a year, (Made me sign a damn contract) and despise it strongly, especially the McDojangs, and everyone learning from one blindly thinking they will be able to "defend themselves" in a real fight (90% of all fights end up on the ground. Good luck defending yourself in a ground fight using an art that teaches no grappling whatsoever.)

"Contracts" are usually indication that the school's a McDojang. Most schools (not solely TKD) don't teach students how to effectively "defend themselves," while still claiming to. A (good) WTF TKD school will teach how to compete in the athletic sport, w/ no (or less emphasis) delusions of defending yourself in a street fight or against a grappler.

There is no doubt in my mind that this place is a McDojang. The guy there was only a 6th degree black belt (at the time), yet he calls himself a "Grand Master". To me, the only grand master should be the founder of the art itself, not just someone who bought a building, hung a sign outside along with pretty decorations all over calling the mentioned building a "dojo", and then "earns" the title of "Grandmaster" by the Korean government or something regardless of rank, but that doesn't matter because he owns a dojo. stare

By the way, i'm talking about average commercial TKD McDojangs people, (The ones you should all be smart enough to avoid.) so don't get all pissy with me.

In TKD, Kukkiwon (which officiates/regulates Dan rankings) officially recognizes ranks 6th dan or above as "Grand Masters" so despite your opinion your instructor was doing nothing (officially) wrong by advertising himself as a "Grandmaster." (unless he's not Kukkiwon/WTF affiliated and made up the claim himself) Using a terminology different from the native language of the martial art is also a good indication of McDojo/Dojangness. The average TKD McDojang is no better or worse than the average CMA or JMA McDojo.

Weird. I thought only 8th-9th (it may just be 9th, I'm not sure) degree black belts are considered Grand Masters.

 

[TaeKyon]

[draken]

Why do people constantly say that TKD is terrible in a fight? TKD teaches speed, height, and power. Combine them, and the fight's over in one shot. D<

Even though WTF TKD is a full contact and highly competitive athletic sport. It is "terrible" in a real "fight" because a.) lack of handskills (fact: TKD has punches, the catch: punching to the head is illegal, punching to the body doesn't score points, so it's rarely if ever used in a match so it's rarely trained effectively) b.) because of their lack of handskills and because punching to the face is illegal, most TKD athletes don't keep their hands up (this is perfectly fine in the sport, terrible for a "fight") c.) lack of grappling/ground skills (not a worry in competition, thus why TKD doesn't usually train this skill set)

ITF TKD is no better, true they can punch to the face but a.) most ITF TKD fighters still don't keep their hands up b.) their sparring is technically not full contact (which reinforces weak/unrealistic techniques) c.) lack of ground/grappling skills also.

But you're right, TKD (WTF) does teach speed, timing, power, it's also true that it only takes one shot to end a fight. The problem w/ TKD as an effective means of self defense or form of fighting is that it's incomplete and not the most effective art one could choose for that purpose. I addressed the art's incompleteness in the reasons above, the other factor is the fundamental weakness in kicking techniques. They're risky in a real fight because they put you off balance and relative to punching require a lot more commitment to the technique (meaning they're slower and will you pay more for missing a kick than you will if you miss a punch) TKD does not train how to kick when an opponent can grab that kick or shoot for your other leg and take you down nor does it teach you what to do once you're on the ground w/ your opponent sitting on your chest raining punches and elbows into your face. This is the same reason you don't see too much kicking (or TKD) in MMA.

[draken]

Furthermore, what if you don't intend on getting into any fights? What if you just want to learn TKD? Or respect? Or good moral values?

Perfectly fine, in fact, preferred. Most TKD athletes I know have no delusion that they're athletes and not capable street fighters. A lot of MMA/kickboxing/boxing/combat sport fighters probably feel the same way I'm betting. And in that respect, it's okay that TKD is incomplete, it just means it's not effective for no holds barred type situations.

[draken]

Furthermore, TKD uses hands to block, not legs.

Footwork is generally preferred over hard blocks anyway (WTF).

EDIT: Pretty sure "Grand Master" is 6th thru 9th according to Kukkiwon.