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The_Voice

PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 1:46 am


THE COUNCIL

This is just as it sounds.

Before Halloween, problems arose, and complaints against a guardian (Neith-Kia) were launched. This has nothing to do with the vote that the guardians were asked to make: this is a more personal matter. "Attacks" against a fellow guardian, incessant complaining, accusations of said gaurdian and their Fa'e being ignored - purposefully, bringing complaints to AIM and badgering about the ignoring, causing guardians not to want to enter the HQ thread because said guardian was present, etc. Because this is not the first time that complaints have been launched against said guardian, action was asked to be taken.

Hopefully, this will resolve the issue.

Here is how this will work:

This will last for a week, perhaps two. The Fa'e Guardians will be given the password to this account. They will have their say, anonymously, about Neith-Kia and her actions. No one will know who you are, so do not worry about being "hounded." Neith-Kia will be allowed to defend herself and explain her actions through the course of this.

In the end, hopefully something definite will be decided. Feel free to give your suggestions on the course of action that should be taken to insure that something like this never happens again.

::NOTE:: You do not have to take part in this. If you believe this is harsh, or an unjust way of handling the issue, please feel free to not take part in this.

ALSO: NO TAMPERING WITH OTHER PEOPLE'S POST! There is going to be someone that is trusted (the Mysterious Lurker - you know them from the Newsletter thread) to watch the posts, and they are copying and pasting every post made. This is meant to be fair, and tampering with posts is undermining this system.
PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 8:07 am


Looks like I'll be the first. Let me try to get my thoughts together.

I have known Neith for quite a while, and through many different shops. We have had our problems, personally and otherwise, and some of them have been spectacular ones. I know that Neith tends to overreact to situations, and can be hysterical when her point of view is not realised. There are almost always apologies given, however, and things usually settle down again quite quickly. Sometimes, however, this is not the case.

Recently, I've seen instances of this behavior, but I have also seen Neith at least trying to step back and look at the situation calmly and rationally. This is a big step, believe me. While I don't know everything of what has been going on, I think that this is at least a good beginning.

In some other shops, if a guardian/caretaker/owner has broken rules or made it so that others are complaining about them, an RP ban is instituted, for a determined length of time. Sometimes a couple of days, sometimes a week, sometimes longer if the situation warrants it. In those instances, the diary is locked (This only works in a guild, unless there's a moderator that wants to do it) and others are instructed to ignore any attempts by that person to RP with them during that time. This seems to be very effective, as any RP-intensive pet (I use that term loosely with the Fa'e) tends to miss out on quite a bit, even if only banned from RP for a few days.

I hope this can be resolved, I truly do. People are 'ignored' or just missed in RP on a regular basis, this is no reason to get upset or nasty. In fact, there are times when ignoring someone is a way to avoid a volatile situation. I know that there are guardians who have issues with other guardians, and rather than bring those issues into public and cause a row, it's best that they simply ignore each other and go about their own business.

I believe I have rambled enough about this, and will respond again if needed.

The_Voice


The_Voice

PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 9:55 am


Let me play Devil's Advocate here for just a moment.

In the case of the instance where Neith had the fit about Kia was "susposed" to find Morion, I want to bring up that I have heard about at least three other people that Smoke told could be the one to find Morion, so in that case I think Neith was justly upset.

I also want to point out that sometimes she gets flustered when she gets "stuck" in an RP. I think several fa'e guardians are bad about starting playdates with others and not finishing them. It gets very frustrating when your character is waiting on someone else, sometimes for weeks, up to months.

However, he constant badgering, complaining, and attempted favoritism needs to be handled.

I think what needs to be done is continue to encourage Neith to calm down and think things through rationally. I think she should be forbidden to use AIM to contact fa'e owners. If Neith legitimately has a concern that needs to be dealt with, she should be required to write out a calm, collected PM that should be sent to FAE HQ account to be reviewed for personal attacks before being delivered to the recipient.

Neith also needs to learn that FAE HQ are the GMs, and the rules and mythos they set down have to be followed by everyone. Just because something "doesn't fit her storyline" doesn't mean the rules should be an exception. The fa'e are a separate race of beings, and have rules that need to be abided by. Playing against the rules should also have actions taken against them.
PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 10:06 am


I have not been up to date with any recent trouble with Neith - however, she's done this before. For ages and ages she has been doing this, whining about being ignored, constantly pestering.

However, I think she dosn't understand how simply annoying it is. How the constant whining about being ignored only makes people more inclined to ACTUALLY ignore her, because SHE IS BEING ANNOYING. You don't pay attention to whining children, it only encourages them.

I have never deliberatedly excluded Neith until she whined about it. I do not wish to play with somebody who whines all the time about being ignored. Why should I make a special effort to pander to a complainer?

That said, I don't think it's a fatal problem at all. I do not think I know everything that is going on, but I think this should come as a realization for her, a call for her to change her ways. I do not wish to insult her nor hurt her - however, I think she absolutely NEEDS to realize what her actions are doing to the group and ultimately TO HERSELF!

I do not think she deserves to lose Kia by any means. However, some other means of penalty if she does not change may be in order, simply because I have seen the dischord and annoyance she has caused.

However, I know a lot of us have been keeping quiet about it, tolerating it, yet inwardly boiling. We've held it in in hopes she'd change, and maybe not been as forthcoming to her as we shoudl have been. In that case some of the blame lies on us, because if she didn't know the magnitude of her offenses how would she know to stop?

It is my hope that Neith will learn to not percieve slights that aren't really there so quickly, not to insult her fellow Guardians unknowingly like that, not to act like an attention whore, and above all to respect and not demand things from Anya. If she learns, I see no reason to take Kia away at all. None.

The_Voice


The_Voice

PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 10:07 am


My turn I suppose.

Personally, I like both Neith and Kia. I haven't been witness to much of what has been going on, but I think the guardians who have been ignoring her are at just as much fault as she is. It's not only rude, but also unkind and hurtful. I'm one who tends to overreact to things, and I know what it is like to have people do that to you, or at least what it feels like when you think they are.

Kia and Neith are both intwined in the RP in many ways. It is my belief that at this stage Kia can never be given a new guardian, because her personality has been formed by one person, and that person is the only one who can truly RP her now.

I think the route Neith took with the GMFC when the majority of fa'e owners reached a decision was decent. If the child is important to her fa'e's plot, then she's finding a new way to have it without needing Anya to break the rules for her. Expecially as this child would be mortal, not fa'e. Or that is how I have come to understand it, anyway.

I think that if owners have problems with Neith they need to work it out. Discuss the problems with her rather than just ignoring her. Ignoring people and shutting yourself off from them will never solve a problem, and trust me, I know from deep experience. It just worsens everything. If you don't want to say things in public, then talk to her in PM, or over AIM. Or something. Dealing with the problem is the quickest way to solve it and keep it from happening again.

Well that's my take. I fear that it is just a load of rambling that makes no sense whatsoever. If it's needed I'll write again, but I don't think it should be.
PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 11:06 am


Don't really have too much to say, here.

But I thought that Neith's GMFC solution was a good one, and wish her the best in getting that. It's hard to have to drop a plot entirely. For those unaware, the GMFC has rules regarding the children of Fa'e from this route: they will be completely human. This child, should it come to pass, will not be Fa'e, and not even particularly magical.

But the fundamental IC rules of the Fa'e prevent Neith from keeping Kia's child were it Fa'e. Even ignoring that fact, had her original plan gone through, it would have created a great deal of bad feeling. So while I can sympathize somewhat with Neith's case, it could not ever happen as originally planned.

The_Voice


The_Voice

PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 11:19 am


Personally, I haven't been to the HQ much lately and didn't know about this whole GMFC thing for Kia. I admit I don't know the whole story, but I don't see what the big deal is. Fa'e are about the stories. So if Neith or anyone else asks for an exception, I think it can be made.

I like Neith. When I first came to the Fa'e HQ, she was one of the people there who were nicest to me when I felt like a complete stranger. I don't think I've ever seen her badger anyone about anything besides one time she asked her friends on AIM for help in an auction. She's one of the most devoted Fa'e Guardians I've seen, too.

This anonymous backtalking kind of appalls me, but I had to say something, because I find this really unfair, unfriendly and hurtful. I didn't know the people of the Fa'e HQ could act like this. :/
PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 11:23 am


Guess I'll go now.

I'm not going to repeat what others have said really, because the points have been brought forth and yes, I agree with them on all counts: she's whiny, insecure, and I would have to agree that she seems to have tried to bend the rules a bit to suit her needs on the whole pregnancy thing.

I also know that Neith is not always intentionally doing this (whining, attacks, etc). I've been a member of the fa'e community long enough to watch her moods and realize that this is just something that happens and that I just deal with it. I've seen her fall all over herself in apologies as well, so I feel like she is trying to change.

However, it is foolish of me or anyone else to just take her abuse without feeling hurt, annoyed, or upset when it is the only thing that comes out of her mouth, lacking any real thought behind what she says. Most of what I've witnessed has been over AIM, thus the suggestion of her not being able to use AIM to contact us over Fa'e matters is one I support.

I do NOT support having Kia taken away. This matter is not severe enough to warrant such an act. Kia is important to the "lives" of many fa'e and if she were transferred elsewhere, I don't feel as though anyone else could RP her how she ought to be. Neith made Kia who she is and to remove Neith removes Kia's personality.

The GMFC thing...well...I think it's a good way to get around the rules set by the GMs without breaking them. Anya had long ago said that babies could be born outside of her control but they would not be fa'e. Simple as that. If Anya agreed to it, I see nothing wrong. I do think it's very wrong that she asked for exceptions to be made via Anya, however. To make one exception for one fa'e would only lead to other Guardians wanting the same exception and soon, if every request was granted, then what was the point of making the rule in the first place? This is a game in that you have choices to make. Some of those choices might inhibit you from making other choices later on...but that's how you play. You can't have your cake and eat it too

So basically, through all my rambling:
-Yes, Neith needs to change and removing AIM might help because she won't be able to instantly talk to someone without taking time to think over what she might say.
-No, do not take away Kia. I will lose faith in all of the fa'e community if this ever happens and I'll fear for the day I might get on the bad side of this group somehow and watch them pry my fa'e away from me.

On another note, I think that this idea of having a private council might not be the best for the argument either. This would kill me if you all were doing this about me somewhere (and I only say this because I -have- told Neith exactly how I feel about her and her behavior, so nothing I've written is anything I have not personally told her to her face). Some of the things I've read here are hurtful and they aren't even addressed to me...so I only hope you're not talking behind her back about this and have told her exactly how you feel as opposed to taking the coward's way out by ranting here under a blanket of security.

The_Voice


The_Voice

PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 11:24 am


I suppose I can understand both sides of the issue. I feel that in asking Anya to break the rules, she was unjustified. Breaking the rules would have lead to chaos and more hurt feelings than anyone could forsee. In trying for another GMFC appointment, I can see her doing no wrong. While I do not agree with the concept of trying for another heavily rp-able pet, Kamiki has mentioned no one per person rule in the auction. It seems a bit petty to me, to turn to another media when the entire point of the Fa'e having children was to turn over these children to a new generation. But this is solely my opinion and no regulations have been placed on this. I am rather hurt that Neith feels she cannot change her storyline and it has to be set in stone. My own storyline has changed numerous times because of what I can and cannot do. I feel a little slighted by that action.

But, beyond this, I have seen Neith act childishly in the past. She has god-modded a bit and thrown temper tantrums. She has pestered people and alienated people. HOWEVER. I have seen other Guardians do this as well. Most to a lesser extent than her, but I have still witnessed it. Perhaps some rules need to be drafted... some rules that stipulate that people acting like attention whores will not be tolerated. It does get tiring to walk into the HQ, see an RP you might like to join, but don't because it already seems to be revolving around one person.

Now, leaving my level head behind. I'd like to point out two things that rather upset me..... These are purely opinion. 1) The teen pregnancy. It may have been part of a storyline but following closely on the heels of the Silver/Sati soon to be marriage and Shina's pregnancy, it came across as a play for attention. Or one of those 'I have to be part of the revolutionary crowd'. And I thought Anya mentioned that teen was too early to be pregnant? Perhaps I was mistaken. And 2) The way Kia is, having so many lives, and being so many things and being involved in the past of so many characters... It's hard for me and my character to approach her. These may have been discussed with the other players involved, but as she is, Kia comes across as such a HUGE character with so many powers and stories and lives... it feels like... why bother with my own character?

Finally... what should be done about this situation? Temporary banning seems fair for the next offense. Warnings from the Fa'e account. I'm not sure if anything has been so agregious as to take Kia away or kick Neith out permanently. But something must be done so that she - and the others I've seen - get it through their skulls that they cannot act this way.
PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 11:29 am


I also feel that the GMFC solution is a good one, and I'm glad Neith has been able to accept that her original plot will not occur and is looking for other solutions to the IC problem.

I've heard complaints about her before, and I've occasionally been irritated when she wants attention, but I don't think she has stopped to consider the effects of her actions on others. I'm not absolving her of responsibility, but I don't believe she has ever intentionally hurt anyone. I think that when one of us has problems with her, we should take it directly to her first. The reason people haven't, as I see it, is that she hasn't been inclined to accept that anyone could have a legitimate complaint, so far. I don't know what to do about that, but I'd still rather see problems dealt with directly rather than staying in the dark.

I feel that special treatment shouldn't be given to any one person in regards to the rules. Actually, I'd like to suggest that the caveat suggesting that a Fa'e baby could go to a Guardian if there are RP reasons should be removed from the rules, as I have difficulty thinking of a reason that would be universally seen as good enough. Someone would always feel slighted. Special treatment for one person is not fair.

Edit - I'd also like to add that this statement is something I'd be willing to put my name to or say directly to Neith. While I understand that the anomynity is important for those who feel that they would otherwise be attacked for their opinions, I'm not really happy with it.

The_Voice


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 11:34 am


Quote:
Kamiki has mentioned no one per person rule in the auction. It seems a bit petty to me, to turn to another media when the entire point of the Fa'e having children was to turn over these children to a new generation.


I just want to point out to EVERYONE a few things about the GMFC just for clarification.

Anya ALLOWED me to set up Fa'e to have children in the GMFC to GIVE Fa'e an outlet to have children and keep them. It is FULLY endorsed by Anya.

For those who don't know the IC rules about fa'e and magic, here they are...

When the fa'e have a fa'e child, it takes magic away from them to create the child. Thats why they become mortal if they have children.

A gaurdian (Gaian) can only bond to ONE fa'e. Without a gaurdian, a fa'e will die. So thats why when a fa'e has a fa'e child, they must be adopted to another.

If a fa'e does NOT use their magic to create their child, the child is born mortal. This, the way I see it, is not a conscious decision the fa'e can make. The only way they can create a child without using their magic is to do so, for lack of a better word, unnaturally. They can choose to come to the GMFC, and Kamiki is create a child from their cells outside their body via in vitro fertilization. This way, a genetic child is formed, but not through the fae's natural magic.

Therefore this child is completely mortal, with no natural magic abilities. They do not need to bond to a gaurdian to survive. This is why children born through the GMFC are NOT Fa'e, and therefore can be kept by the parents.

I hope this clears a few things up for people.
PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 11:35 am


The_Voice
Now, leaving my level head behind. I'd like to point out two things that rather upset me..... These are purely opinion. 1) The teen pregnancy. It may have been part of a storyline but following closely on the heels of the Silver/Sati soon to be marriage and Shina's pregnancy, it came across as a play for attention. Or one of those 'I have to be part of the revolutionary crowd'.


Neith is not the only person guilty of this (ie seeing one person doing something and deciding "Hey, good idea!" and then doing it too), whether it's intentional or unintentional. Just thought I should point that out.

The_Voice


The_Voice

PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 1:31 pm


Okay I'm gonna lay this out for everyone to know....

Neith has already been given more than one chance by us all and told to stop, but she underminding everyone including the new owners that just wrong. Anya has asked her to stop she did but then went right back to her old self in less than 2 weeks.

She has been attacking people since Feburary, all because a few fa'es went on a trip, I do not understand why, she wasn't part of the storyline. She had to b***h about it over aim and in fa'e, she got it to the point where Kia snapped at a fa'e because they went on a trip, she didn't get angry at them all, just one fa'e, then attack that guardian over aim saying that the next time they do a storyline to make sure they check with her first. Why does she feel she has the right to dicated everyone storylines, she has done this to countless guardians.

Also this other thing about the GMFC, its not right, everyone has changed there storyline, why can't she, because she set in a way that she doesn't care at this point, she wanted to make sure she could keep a kid, the kid I understand will be mortal, but she still underminded what the guardians just voted on.

The other thing about her fa'e being special, all the fa'e are special in their own ways. No one wishes to have everyone worship their fa'e. She wants that from everyone when it comes to Kia, Kia has to be part of everything. Clubbing, going on adventures, of moving into new places, when really she doesn't belong in the storyline.

No one has taken into account that she only acts nice, alot of us have proof that she does attack people. She has made guardians cry countless of time, saying people are bitches, and saying they were imature. So if they leave for another thread she'll follow and attack that person in that thread. Again there is proof on this happening. No one wants to deal or should have to deal with this at all.

She said she was gonna change but she hasn't, she has told one of the owners that she wasn't going to listen to them she would only listen to Anya. To me this is wrong, she need to listen to all three owners. Two of them were not given the ownership just to be told no and not listened to.

She has said that we're all talking s**t about her when really none of us are, its just in her own mind. She is the one talking s**t, this is why alot of people don't wish to deal with her, and if they tell her to back off she either tells them to grow up or to stuff it.

If she doesn't get her way she gets pissed and attack that person over aim, and if she can't get to the person, she goes after the next closer friend to them. Saying that she known people longer, when in truth many of us have known other longer then her and become close friends. She doesn't like that, thier either her friends or their no one friend.

People have gotten to the point that when she comes in they leave because no one wants to deal with her bitching, maybe she hasn't done that in other thread or to you yet, but give her time and she will if you piss her off.

She has made fa'e thread a place where people don't want to be, that why alot of us don't go in there unless she is not there. You can say this is wrong but deal with her bitching for 8 months then tell me otherwise.

Another thing is this bugging Anya for special treatment, is wrong. Again Anya is a busy person and need time to do these fa'e, that is why she turned HQ over to the new owners. Neith has been bugging Anya over Kia. Why can't she wait like everyone else? Everyone can be patient yet again she doesn't wish to wait.

So overall, Neith to many may act nice, but deal with her for 8 months, calling you a liar, a b***h, imature, and so on. Try holding your tongue because she has done things to other friends and they have asked you not to say anything. Try dealing with the fact that she not gonna listen no matter what anyone tell her.

Then you tell me whether she is nice or not. Because I have seen it and I have dealt with it for 8 months and I'm not gonna hold my tongue any longer when it comes to her.

Kia need to be taken from her and she need to be banned from fa'e because she has been given countless chances and each time she has screwed up.
PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 1:54 pm


I don't understand why Neith going after the GMFC appointment is so appualling?? She wanted Anya to draw her two children, and we voted and we all said no. So now she's going through great efforts to get this GMFC baby.

As kamiki pointed out, the GMFC is allowed by Anya, and it allows Kia to have her kid that she can keep AND it doesn't break any rules or make any exceptions in either the GMFC or the Fa'e.

Wouldn't that then be a fair compromise?

The_Voice


The_Voice

PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 2:03 pm


I also do not understand why the GMFC thing is a big deal. She's not undermining Anya's authority or our decision at all in my mind.

If anything, it's good that she's respected our decision and is trying to work out another way that doesn't bend or break the rules to make that plotline feasible for her, at great personal sacrifice to herself. I see NO REASON why she should be faulted for that. None.
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