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 Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 10:09 am
Does it really matter whether you use them, or not, before "and"?
For example: I've had blue, pink, and red hair.
Should that bolded comma not be there? I've had multiple arguements with parents when they would proofread my things.
D:
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Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 10:32 am
Yes it matters.
The comma is a sentance breaker, and sometimes a breaker of a list.
'And' is also a breaker of a list or sentance.
Some times it is acceptable to use the comma before 'and' in a sentance, but I personally find it incredibly annoying when they are used before 'and' in a list. Such as your example.
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Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 11:49 am
As a disclaimer, I don't have my copy of Eats, Shoots & Leaves with me right now, so this is from memory. Allons-y!
This is one of those cases when the two different purposes of the comma come into contradiction.
In American usage, it's usually appropriate to put a comma before the and in such a list. However, that can give the sentence an odd rhythm when being spoke.
"Red, white and blue" sounds very different from "Red, white, and blue." Generally speaking, it's best to follow your own judgment on these cases, and put the comma in if it helps to express the idea you are putting forth.
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Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 12:14 pm
Londo Mollari As a disclaimer, I don't have my copy of Eats, Shoots & Leaves with me right now, so this is from memory. Allons-y! This is one of those cases when the two different purposes of the comma come into contradiction. In American usage, it's usually appropriate to put a comma before the and in such a list. However, that can give the sentence an odd rhythm when being spoke. "Red, white and blue" sounds very different from "Red, white, and blue." Generally speaking, it's best to follow your own judgment on these cases, and put the comma in if it helps to express the idea you are putting forth. I know this is off topic... but isn't it "y allons"? confused
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Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 1:14 pm
I've never heard it spoken thus, but I'm no expert on French.
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Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 2:48 am
It's a matter of style. Using the comma helps keep the last two items separate (red, yellow, blue, and green are clearly 4 items, as opposed to red, yellow, blue and green where "blue and green" can be interpreted to be one item in the list), but you don't have to use it.
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Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 6:46 am
I was told you're not supposed to put a comma before an "and" in a list. However, I suppose it depends on what's being listed.
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Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 11:13 am
I remember that my English teacher -who was British- told me that you don't put a comma before "and." But I also read somewhere that you do have to put a comma there, so I guess it is acceptable,at least in American English. burning_light I know this is off topic... but isn't it "y allons"? confused No, it's "allons-y" (= "let's go").
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Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 1:00 pm
I've been told never to do it under any circumstance, but it makes my writing flow better if I'm listing or writing a formal paragraph, so I do anyway.
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Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 4:25 pm
According to Eats, Shoots, and Leaves (goodness, I love that book), it also depends on where you live. The British are less likely to use it, whereas Americans tend to use it more. it's sometimes called the Oxford comma...isn't that cute? (I love commas...) wink
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Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 4:28 pm
I had the same dispute in Italian class on Friday. Personally I do not think it matter, but mabey in the long run it does.
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Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 4:41 pm
A lot of people will argue with you just because they've been told it's done a certain way, but in fact it's one of those rules that can go either way, depending on what you learned and your own style. Me, I've always thought it made sense to put the comma before the "and"... Why would you separate every item in a list except the last two? That's just random and senseless to me. Also, it can be confusing if you don't. Take this example looted from Wikipedia:
I spoke to the boys, Sam and Tom. — The boys refers to Sam and Tom.
I spoke to the boys, Sam, and Tom. — The boys, Sam, and Tom are separate units; thus, four or more people were spoken to in all. In such cases, the order of presentation can be rearranged to avoid possible confusion (I spoke to Sam, Tom and the boys.).
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Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:51 am
Friends, the most respected grammarians in the world debate this daily. It's disputable, one of those mutable rules that changes to fit the situation. It really depends on how you want the text to sound when read, I find.
Particularly concerning lists, for example:
Or cakes come in several colors: pink, blue, red, and white.
This implies that red and white are separate colors, thus are separated by a comma in the list. As opposed to...
Our cakes come in several colors: pink, blue, red and white.
Technically, this second sentence means the same thing because 'red' and 'white' are separated by an 'and', which has the same function of a breaking comma when ending a list. HOWEVER, because the two are not separated by a comma, it implies that the colors red and white on the cakes go together somehow. Nothing in the sentence actually says this, but when read out loud it sounds like: (only pauses are indicated, like in speech)
Our cakes come in several colors... pink... blue... red... and white.
Versus:
Our cakes come in several colors... pink... blue... red and white.
It just depends on what EXACTLY you want to say. Or at least that's how I see it. I'm not a grammarian, I'm just a student barely in Advanced English class, so I don't think I'm qualified to stand on this issue.
Still, I wish that my English teacher would give a speech like that one. He's never gotten around to explaining it, only saying 'a comma plus and is good to use'. unfortunately, by the time peer correction comes around I get stuck with some really ugly sentences:
He saw a green, and orange dinosaur.
gonk
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Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 8:47 am
Mm, the way I was taught, I used to always put the extra comma before 'and'. My teacher told me that this was no longer in the (proverbial) 'official' grammarian rulebook, and that it could go either way.
Now I use wichever feels right in the context it's in, they both give different flows and feels.
*Shrug*
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Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 11:24 pm
What I was taught was that leaving the comma out (ex, ex and ex) was an older way of writing, whereas adding the comma before and was the more modern way of doing things.
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