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Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 4:42 pm
http://www.comcast.net/news/international/index.jsp?cat=INTERNATIONAL&fn=/2007/01/25/570446.html&cvqh=itn_doubtvirginityI don't know what to say. For those who can't see the article, here: Quote: AMMAN, Jordan - A Jordanian man fatally shot his 17-year-old daughter whom he suspected of having sex despite a medical exam that proved her chastity, an official said Thursday. The man surrendered to police hours after the killing, saying he had done it for family honor. A state forensic pathologist, who works at the National Institute of Forensic Medicine in Amman where an autopsy was performed, said in a phone interview that the girl had run away from home several times for unknown reasons. Weeks ago, the girl had returned home from a family protection clinic after doctors had vouched for her virginity and the father had signed a pledge not to harm her, the pathologist said on condition of anonymity due to the sensitive nature of the case. "The tests proved that she was a virgin," the pathologist said. The girl returned home only after her father signed a statement promising not to harm her, he added. The father shot the girl four times in the head on Tuesday. On Wednesday, an autopsy was performed that again showed "she was still a virgin," the pathologist said. Authorities have not disclosed the names of the father or the daughter or even their hometown, saying only that they lived in a southern province. The crime is the first "honor killing" this year in Jordan, where many men consider sex out of wedlock to be an almost indelible stain on a family's reputation. On average, about 20 women in the country are killed by their relatives in such cases each year. Women have been killed for simply dating. Global human rights organizations have condemned such killings and appealed to King Abdullah II to put an end to them. In response, the government has abolished a section in the penal code that allowed for "honor" killers to get sentences as lenient as six months in prison. Instead, the government has told judges to consider honor killings on a par with other homicides, which in Jordan are punishable by up to 15 years in jail. But attempts to introduce harsher sentences have been blocked by conservative lawmakers who argue that tougher penalties would lead to promiscuity. Queen Rania also has called for harsher punishment for such killers.
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Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 5:19 pm
foxxy_love_sugar Quote: But attempts to introduce harsher sentences have been blocked by conservative lawmakers who argue that tougher penalties would lead to promiscuity. That is the stupidest reasoning I've heard. Wow.
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Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 5:52 pm
.............. ...............
What. The. Hell.
Anti-woman is right!
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Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 6:05 pm
Kata Samoes foxxy_love_sugar Quote: But attempts to introduce harsher sentences have been blocked by conservative lawmakers who argue that tougher penalties would lead to promiscuity. That is the stupidest reasoning I've heard. Wow. I agree. That is absolutely illogical and downright dumb.
What about men who sleep around, huh? Can they be shot to clear the family's name? Oh I forgot, it's alright for men to sleep around rolleyes
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Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 6:20 pm
That story sounds like a part of King's book It when the girl's father finds out that she was hanging out with boys and demands that she drop her pants so that he could "check" if she was still a virgin. Turns out that he wanted to molest her but never did.
Perhaps this story is paralleled with the article, even though it's fictional. Perhaps there was some kind of abuse in the girl's home, or maybe the father wanted to molest his daughter and somehow got it into his head that she was "cheating" on him. There's got to be some psychological stuff behind that, I just don't know what it is. I know, however, that my friend's father (who molested her) didn't like it when she dated, either. She actually dated in hopes that he would leave her alone.
Places in the Middle East and Asia still condone honor killings that include if the girl has sex before marriage or is raped. It's really sad that a country that is as developed as Jordan is still letting honor killings slide with little punishment. I thought that Islam called for the protection and cherishing of women?
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Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 6:23 pm
Frog Juice Kata Samoes foxxy_love_sugar Quote: But attempts to introduce harsher sentences have been blocked by conservative lawmakers who argue that tougher penalties would lead to promiscuity. That is the stupidest reasoning I've heard. Wow. I agree. That is absolutely illogical and downright dumb.
What about men who sleep around, huh? Can they be shot to clear the family's name? Oh I forgot, it's alright for men to sleep around rolleyes Actually, in Jordan, the punishment for a man who has raped a woman can be as harsh as a stoning by the family of the afflicted. There was an incidence in which that happened and was overlooked by the police because the community felt the family's outrage. I've also heard that some Muslim communities will castrate a man that has raped someone, but I'm not entirely sure if that's true or not. Jordan's punishments for sexual crimes, whether it's rape or being raped, are extreme and bizarre.
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Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 6:43 pm
Missy Wyvern Actually, in Jordan, the punishment for a man who has raped a woman can be as harsh as a stoning by the family of the afflicted. There was an incidence in which that happened and was overlooked by the police because the community felt the family's outrage. I've also heard that some Muslim communities will castrate a man that has raped someone, but I'm not entirely sure if that's true or not. Jordan's punishments for sexual crimes, whether it's rape or being raped, are extreme and bizarre. It's true. At first I didn't quite understand why they were dragging the guy out of his house, kicking and screaming and tried to stop it. But they quickly conveyed to me and a couple buddies what was happening, so we decided to take a walk.
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Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 7:36 pm
Missy Wyvern Perhaps this story is paralleled with the article, even though it's fictional. Perhaps there was some kind of abuse in the girl's home, or maybe the father wanted to molest his daughter and somehow got it into his head that she was "cheating" on him. There's got to be some psychological stuff behind that, I just don't know what it is. I know, however, that my friend's father (who molested her) didn't like it when she dated, either. She actually dated in hopes that he would leave her alone. No. It's not a psychological problem, and that's the really sad thing. Honor crimes are very common in Jordan. They are so phobic and opressive of sexuality (especially female) that they will kill you. They'd rather have their daughters dead than sexually aware and active. It's part of their culture. What really disgusts me that the defense was "She's still a virgin! We have medical proof!" 1. You can't tell whether a person has had sex or not just by examining them. 2. You're trying to kill someone for normal, healthy sexuality! The only examination you need is for your own mind and your ******** up values. I have no cultural sensitivity when it comes to s**t like this. I refuse to respect a society that treats its women like property.
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Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 10:07 pm
Quote: But attempts to introduce harsher sentences have been blocked by conservative lawmakers who argue that tougher penalties would lead to promiscuity. Just like a vaccine to prevent HVP (and as such 70% of cervical cancer) will cause teenage girls to go on a free-for-all sex rampage! Just like over-the-counter plan B will cause women to screw without protection! -_- Pro-lifers and conservatives ought to be ashamed of themselves for being so foolish as to believe such lapses in logic, and ought to realize the mirror they are looking in when they scoff at such anti-women absurdities in other countries (especially since they seek to enforce similar, though less severe, anti-women absurdities)
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Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 3:56 am
Because we all know the only thing keeping women from being sex machines (y'know, like guys) is the fear that their fathers will kill them.
As much as I avoid hating on other cultures, this one SUCKS. What kind of family do you have when you worry more about your "honor" than the life of your family members?
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Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 8:49 am
Scare Tactic Propaganda Because we all know the only thing keeping women from being sex machines (y'know, like guys) is the fear that their fathers will kill them. As much as I avoid hating on other cultures, this one SUCKS. What kind of family do you have when you worry more about your "honor" than the life of your family members? An Eastern one. See: Sepuku
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Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:30 pm
I am so disgusted I don't know what to type! scream
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Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:44 pm
LadyInWhite I am so disgusted I don't know what to type! scream Same here. But Phaedra took the words right out of my mouth. PhaedraMcSpiffy I have no cultural sensitivity when it comes to s**t like this. I refuse to respect a society that treats its women like property.
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Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 2:26 pm
I don't think anyone from the Western civilixation can really understand this.
I'm not sympathetic to their culture though, this is an outrage that neither me, nor anyone else can do much about.
Even though we don't agree with it, it's not our right to strip away their culture.
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Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 3:15 pm
I'm glad someone finally pointed out that hole in the article. There is no medical definition for "virgin", and therefore no test. Even a woman with a fully intact, imperforate hymen can be a non-virgin. That's because there's so much more to sex than p***s-in-v****a intercourse.
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