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FEAR THE WMDs!
  Oh noooo!
  You CRAZY
  I knew those sonographers were terrorists....
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lymelady
Vice Captain

PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:01 am


That's right kids. They weren't in Iraq. They weren't in Afghanistan.

They were right under our noses.

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Quote:
The latest weapon in the arsenal of these CPCs is showing pregnant women ultrasound images of the developing fetus, and it seems to be having a major effect on women. Focus on the Family, a Christian fascist organization that funds and promotes CPCs and has spent nearly $1.2 million on ultrasound machines, claims that nearly 70 percent of the women shown ultrasound decide against abortion.


The horror! OH NO! WOMEN SEE WHAT'S GOING ON INSIDE OF THEM! We can't lie to them any longer? WHAT SHALL WE DO? I know, let's paint these centers as pits of despair and torture so that women won't go in and see what's growing inside of them!
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:37 am


It's not just that. Did you read the whole article? It's the crazier variety of Christian running rampant again.

Article
. . . racks of pamphlets: "Breast Cancer: The Deadly After-Effect of Abortion"; "Condoms: Do They Really Work?"; "Secondary Virginity: The Best Choice." These materials created a whole fictionalized world where condoms and the birth control pill are dangerous, where abortion ruins lives while adoption is a happy choice.


OK, I don't like abortion, but bashing contraceptives? Who are they kidding?

Article
One pamphlet called "A Real Woman" made explicit the biblically based ideology these centers want to impose: "A Real Woman: appreciates God's design of men and women, behaves like a lady, believes in God, understands chastity, is modest, pure and chaste, loves babies, finds strength in her husband, is happy and content."


I must not be a real woman then, eh? I'm not incredibly fussed about God (nothing against the Boss but I'm just not a firm believer), I don't behave much like a lady (does that include keeping your knees together when sitting? I got told right off for that at Girls' Brigade); again, not fussed about the big man, I know what chastity is . . . does that count? I might be modest but I don't think I'm pure or chaste, or at least not as pure and chaste as these guys probably want. Babies do nothing for me; if anything they make me nervous. Sure, I'll find strength in my husband, but he's not going to be the source of my strength. Ooh, depressed women don't count either.

I'm sorry, but I just think this is a load of crap.


Article
As I left the center, the counselor said she wanted to talk to me about abstinence. She handed me a pamphlet about "secondary virginity" and told me that if my boyfriend really loved me " he would respect my decision not to have sex until marriage." Together with the pamphlets warning that "the only safe sex is no sex until faithful married sex," the backwards, Christian morality of these clinics becomes painfully clear.


Marriage doesn't wipe away STDs, AIDS, or any other bad things that can happen with sex. Well, we all knew that . . .


Anyway, I just don't like the sound of these places at all. I don't like abortion, but if someone's at the point of desperation that they're considering one, I wouldn't want these kind of people sticking their claws in them. I don't like these messages normally, but firing them at someone already vulnerable? It's despicable.

Scribblemouse


lymelady
Vice Captain

PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:50 am


Scribblemouse
It's not just that. Did you read the whole article? It's the crazier variety of Christian running rampant again.
I believed that until I got to the ultrasound part.

Then she lost her credibility.

She's got an obvious agenda, if she doesn't want women to see ultrasounds. She calls it a weapon.

I've seen CPCs before that are nothing like this, it took me aback a bit. I just don't trust her now.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:54 am


lymelady
Scribblemouse
It's not just that. Did you read the whole article? It's the crazier variety of Christian running rampant again.
I believed that until I got to the ultrasound part.

Then she lost her credibility.

She's got an obvious agenda, if she doesn't want women to see ultrasounds. She calls it a weapon.

I've seen CPCs before that are nothing like this, it took me aback a bit. I just don't trust her now.


She has an agenda, but I was ignoring the usual abortion is choice rant and concentrating on the fundamentalist Christian bullshit.

Scribblemouse


lymelady
Vice Captain

PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:09 am


Scribblemouse
lymelady
Scribblemouse
It's not just that. Did you read the whole article? It's the crazier variety of Christian running rampant again.
I believed that until I got to the ultrasound part.

Then she lost her credibility.

She's got an obvious agenda, if she doesn't want women to see ultrasounds. She calls it a weapon.

I've seen CPCs before that are nothing like this, it took me aback a bit. I just don't trust her now.


She has an agenda, but I was ignoring the usual abortion is choice rant and concentrating on the fundamentalist Christian bullshit.
Even doing that, if she can refer to an sonographer the way she does, I don't put much stock in anything else. Most CPCs are Christian run, have Christian literature, and show the studies that say birth control/abortion is dangerous, because they are basing it off studies. Some of them have been correct, there is a link between certain types of oral birth control and cancer. That's why my doctor doesn't want me to take it anymore. Condoms do not always work, but using a condom with another form of birth control is pretty safe, because even if it breaks, you've got a backup. At the time, there were studies out that showed a link to breast cancer, even though the studies were full of s**t, they weren't proven to be full of s**t until recently. She was reading too far into things. By the way, I'd like her to go to women with PAS and tell them it isn't real.

As for the abstinence, people can ignore that if they want. They aren't saying, you'll burn in hell if you don't, you little slut!

I highly doubt it's as bad as she makes it out to be, since she's making things like ultrasounds seem evil and trivializing the pain of thousands of women who admittedly suffer negative affects from their abortions.

She's the sort of person who cares more about abortions being done than women being fully informed on all sides.

Calling an ultrasound a weapon is pretty damn telling.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:45 am


lymelady
Scribblemouse
lymelady
Scribblemouse
It's not just that. Did you read the whole article? It's the crazier variety of Christian running rampant again.
I believed that until I got to the ultrasound part.

Then she lost her credibility.

She's got an obvious agenda, if she doesn't want women to see ultrasounds. She calls it a weapon.

I've seen CPCs before that are nothing like this, it took me aback a bit. I just don't trust her now.


She has an agenda, but I was ignoring the usual abortion is choice rant and concentrating on the fundamentalist Christian bullshit.
Even doing that, if she can refer to an sonographer the way she does, I don't put much stock in anything else. Most CPCs are Christian run, have Christian literature, and show the studies that say birth control/abortion is dangerous, because they are basing it off studies. Some of them have been correct, there is a link between certain types of oral birth control and cancer. That's why my doctor doesn't want me to take it anymore. Condoms do not always work, but using a condom with another form of birth control is pretty safe, because even if it breaks, you've got a backup. At the time, there were studies out that showed a link to breast cancer, even though the studies were full of s**t, they weren't proven to be full of s**t until recently. She was reading too far into things. By the way, I'd like her to go to women with PAS and tell them it isn't real.

As for the abstinence, people can ignore that if they want. They aren't saying, you'll burn in hell if you don't, you little slut!

I highly doubt it's as bad as she makes it out to be, since she's making things like ultrasounds seem evil and trivializing the pain of thousands of women who admittedly suffer negative affects from their abortions.

She's the sort of person who cares more about abortions being done than women being fully informed on all sides.

Calling an ultrasound a weapon is pretty damn telling.


Considering the ultrasound images in The Silent Scream, I'd have to agree with her. I watched that video and couldn't see a thing, while the 'expert' was saying it was this, that and the next thing.

Same thing could happen in these places. At such an early stage, if you can't see much, you're already frazzled, and someone's feeding yoiu bullshit about what's on the screen - it's a weapon.

Scribblemouse


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 8:27 am


Firstly, Scribbles she was focusing on the sonogram so there was no need to bring up the other stuff. If she agreed with the other stuff in the article, she would have posted that.

The woman who wrote this article is being completely ridiculous in suggesting that these sonograms are a bad thing. It's a ******** medical tool and if people are CHOOSING not to have an abortion after seeing their child then why does this woman have a problem with it? She shouldn't unless there's a different agenda here, the fact that it's not all about choice, abortion providers want as many women as possible to have abortions because it increases their revenue.

If a woman is so moved by looking at an image of her child, that she doesn't abort, what do you think the effect of an abortion on her, would have been? Sooner or later she would see SOMEWHERE the picture of a fetus or of a sonogram, or maybe even get pregnant again and then see it with that child. Do you think that if that would have changed her mind about abortion, she would really be able to handle looking at that picture knowing she'd ALREADY had an abortion?

And lastly, I love how "NOW" is one of her sources. She definately doesn't seem to be a biased reporter on these centres, at all.

I can't wait until the 3D ultrasounds become more predominant, the choicers are going to throw an HUGE b***h fit over that one. Considering that you can actually see everything down to your childs facial features.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 9:57 am


I love it, a radical pro-abortionist calling a Christian organization fascist.

The irony here just knocks me silly.

And Scribble, maybe you haven't heard, but contraceptives are NOT 100% effective. I've seen several of those pamphlets and, while their agenda may be religious, the principle that abstinence is the only 100% guaranteed way to keep from getting pregnant is a proven, scientific FACT. Secondary virginity does not discuss 'undoing' anything, it's all about keeping the situation from getting worse.

andyz cool


Tiger of the Fire

PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:22 pm


Yup, thee youth group I used to attend back in my old highschool hada lecture on secondary verginity. At the time we had an influx of students from public schools or who simply had troubled lives. Many of whom had lost their verginity and felt it was the worst desision they made. No one was forced to sit and listen. Any one in theyouth goup is free to leave at any time. Those who stayed (my self included) learned about a "second chance" (this was before i personly lost of physicle verginity). Basicly, all that was taught was "yeah, condoms are some what effective, and even more so with the pill (the one they refered to was one like Yasmine, desighned to keep eggs from dropping, etcetera). Its estimated that a condom and a pill, taken regularly wiht out fail, is about 85 to 90% effective, but there is still that 15 to 10% left over. Secondary verginity, choosing to obstain from another mistake that you've already felt youve made, IE, abstenince, is 100% effective"

No one in that lecture said they did make a mistake. If the people felt they made a mistake, they were told how they could avoid doing it again. Talks of sex and protection were not scewed with fluff and love. We were told hard, proven facts. Not fed riligious ideals.

Reading articles liek this makes me want to fulfill my dream all the more. To create a 3D ultrasound that is easy to reproduce and sell at a lower cost. My life goal is to dosomethign in medicine. More and more I thin about prenatal care and medicine.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 7:13 pm


MiNdCaNdY
I love it, a radical pro-abortionist calling a Christian organization fascist.

The irony here just knocks me silly.

And Scribble, maybe you haven't heard, but contraceptives are NOT 100% effective. I've seen several of those pamphlets and, while their agenda may be religious, the principle that abstinence is the only 100% guaranteed way to keep from getting pregnant is a proven, scientific FACT. Secondary virginity does not discuss 'undoing' anything, it's all about keeping the situation from getting worse.


Nu-uh abstinence isn't 100% effective, it's called rape.

Based on that fact we should of course continue to have rampant unprotected sex because hey, even if you try to not get pregnant it might happen, so screw being careful.

Logicbot 2.0 has now broken, please refer to the abortion thread whenever abstinence is mentioned for this jokes explanation and backing.

Side not, I mean no one pro-life or pro-choice disrespect, I'm just being overly sarcastic and cruel because i'm depressed right now.

Carry on.

King Seth


Tiger of the Fire

PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 7:23 pm


OMGTEHEMOS! LOLBBQ RIDE THE HIGH WAY DUN CROSS TEH ROAD! LOLLERSKATES! blaugh
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 8:25 pm


ima make a picture on paitn of logic bot 2.0 and show its broken XD

]Kaiser[


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:44 am


The original Logic Bot broke when I told it, "The following sentence is false. The previous sentence is true."

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 5:15 am


a much quicker way of saying that is "this sentance is false".

but yeah, i love how since rape is accountable a tiny fraction of pregnancies, it justifies ALL abortion.

i guess some people choose not to think.

divineseraph


lymelady
Vice Captain

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 7:14 am


Scribblemouse
lymelady
Scribblemouse
lymelady
Scribblemouse
It's not just that. Did you read the whole article? It's the crazier variety of Christian running rampant again.
I believed that until I got to the ultrasound part.

Then she lost her credibility.

She's got an obvious agenda, if she doesn't want women to see ultrasounds. She calls it a weapon.

I've seen CPCs before that are nothing like this, it took me aback a bit. I just don't trust her now.


She has an agenda, but I was ignoring the usual abortion is choice rant and concentrating on the fundamentalist Christian bullshit.
Even doing that, if she can refer to an sonographer the way she does, I don't put much stock in anything else. Most CPCs are Christian run, have Christian literature, and show the studies that say birth control/abortion is dangerous, because they are basing it off studies. Some of them have been correct, there is a link between certain types of oral birth control and cancer. That's why my doctor doesn't want me to take it anymore. Condoms do not always work, but using a condom with another form of birth control is pretty safe, because even if it breaks, you've got a backup. At the time, there were studies out that showed a link to breast cancer, even though the studies were full of s**t, they weren't proven to be full of s**t until recently. She was reading too far into things. By the way, I'd like her to go to women with PAS and tell them it isn't real.

As for the abstinence, people can ignore that if they want. They aren't saying, you'll burn in hell if you don't, you little slut!

I highly doubt it's as bad as she makes it out to be, since she's making things like ultrasounds seem evil and trivializing the pain of thousands of women who admittedly suffer negative affects from their abortions.

She's the sort of person who cares more about abortions being done than women being fully informed on all sides.

Calling an ultrasound a weapon is pretty damn telling.


Considering the ultrasound images in The Silent Scream, I'd have to agree with her. I watched that video and couldn't see a thing, while the 'expert' was saying it was this, that and the next thing.

Same thing could happen in these places. At such an early stage, if you can't see much, you're already frazzled, and someone's feeding yoiu bullshit about what's on the screen - it's a weapon.
The expert's pretty dead on. He was a former abortionist and a founder of NARAL. He helped with the Roe v. Wade victory and performed thousands of abortions. Though I doubt it was a cry of pain, the very least that can be said is it moved reflexively away from the instrument that was hurting it.

The only reason he stopped being prochoice was because he saw what was going on once the ultrasound technology came. I can see pretty clearly what's what in the video, but I'm more used to looking at ultrasounds than I probably should be.
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