End of the World...

[zz1000zz]

This is just something i was thinking about, and it seemed worth sharing. First, a few things we can know to be true.

1) The human race would eventually die left on its own (the sun will eventually die).

2) When God comes in the Rapture, Judgement Day or anything else you wish to call it, we will not know beforehand.

The problem:

zz1000zz

We know God will not come when humans would die without him (when the sun dies), as if that time were reached, we would *know* he must come then. This means he will not come then and instead will come sometime sooner. However, we can know he will not come immediately before that, as we know he could not come after, and we cannot know when he will come. We can extend this logic as far as we wish, and eventually it shows God could never come at a time we do not know, as doing so eliminates any time he could possibly come.

In short, we know the latest moment God could come is the end of the world. By knowing this we eliminate it. Thus, we know the latest he could come is immediately before the end of the world. By knowing this, we eliminate it, etc.

So, logically one could conclude God could never come.  

[Kittey-chan]

Circular logic, along the lines of the Babel Fish.

Quote:

"I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."
"But," says Man, "the Babel fish is a dead giveaway isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves that you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. Q.E.D."
"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.
"Oh, that was easy," says Man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black is white and gets himself killed on the next zebra crossing.

 

[zz1000zz]

that_fairy

Circular logic, along the lines of the Babel Fish.

Quote:

"I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."
"But," says Man, "the Babel fish is a dead giveaway isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves that you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. Q.E.D."
"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.
"Oh, that was easy," says Man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black is white and gets himself killed on the next zebra crossing.

While i love Douglas Adams, i hardly see what it has to do with this topic. In fact, i do not see how either my post or your quote involve circular logic. Care to explain?  

[The Noble Protoman.exe]

So you're saying mankind will already be gone by the time God calls his saints home?
(Not mocking you, but that'd be funny for God to show up and be like "Sorry, I'm late...")  

[zz1000zz]

Master Protoman_exe

So you're saying mankind will already be gone by the time God calls his saints home?
(Not mocking you, but that'd be funny for God to show up and be like "Sorry, I'm late...")

I had not said that, but now that you mention it, logically that would be the only possible outcome for him coming ^.^

In a finite time period, it is impossible to say something will happen without us being able to know when it will happen. Because humans will exist for a finite period of time without divine intervention, we know God can not come at a time we could not have known. Since Judgement Day can not happen during the existence of humans, we know it can only happen once the human race is gone.

Wow, that just makes this even better!  

[The Noble Protoman.exe]

zz1000zz

Master Protoman_exe

So you're saying mankind will already be gone by the time God calls his saints home?
(Not mocking you, but that'd be funny for God to show up and be like "Sorry, I'm late...")

I had not said that, but now that you mention it, logically that would be the only possible outcome for him coming ^.^

In a finite time period, it is impossible to say something will happen without us being able to know when it will happen. Because humans will exist for a finite period of time without divine intervention, we know God can not come at a time we could not have known. Since Judgement Day can not happen during the existence of humans, we know it can only happen once the human race is gone.

Wow, that just makes this even better!

This stuff just writes itself.  

[zz1000zz]

Master Protoman_exe

zz1000zz

Master Protoman_exe

So you're saying mankind will already be gone by the time God calls his saints home?
(Not mocking you, but that'd be funny for God to show up and be like "Sorry, I'm late...")

I had not said that, but now that you mention it, logically that would be the only possible outcome for him coming ^.^

In a finite time period, it is impossible to say something will happen without us being able to know when it will happen. Because humans will exist for a finite period of time without divine intervention, we know God can not come at a time we could not have known. Since Judgement Day can not happen during the existence of humans, we know it can only happen once the human race is gone.

Wow, that just makes this even better!

This stuff just writes itself.

So true.  

[zz1000zz]

This is just something i was thinking about, and it seemed worth sharing. First, a few things we can know to be true.

1) The human race would eventually die left on its own (the sun will eventually die).

2) When God comes in the Rapture, Judgement Day or anything else you wish to call it, we will not know beforehand.

The problem:

zz1000zz

We know God will not come when humans would die without him (when the sun dies), as if that time were reached, we would *know* he must come then. This means he will not come then and instead will come sometime sooner. However, we can know he will not come immediately before that, as we know he could not come after, and we cannot know when he will come. We can extend this logic as far as we wish, and eventually it shows God could never come at a time we do not know, as doing so eliminates any time he could possibly come.

In short, we know the latest moment God could come is the end of the world. By knowing this we eliminate it. Thus, we know the latest he could come is immediately before the end of the world. By knowing this, we eliminate it, etc.

So, logically one could conclude when God shows up mankind will already be gone.

"Sorry, I'm late..."  

[Monergism]

zz1000zz

This is just something i was thinking about, and it seemed worth sharing. First, a few things we can know to be true.

1) The human race would eventually die left on its own (the sun will eventually die).

2) When God comes in the Rapture, Judgement Day or anything else you wish to call it, we will not know beforehand.

The problem:

What if the sun never eventually dies and human race still able to existence? Do you know any knowledge about the end times? I don't know what your trying to prove here but this topic is pointless.  

[zz1000zz]

Baptist Holman

zz1000zz

This is just something i was thinking about, and it seemed worth sharing. First, a few things we can know to be true.

1) The human race would eventually die left on its own (the sun will eventually die).

2) When God comes in the Rapture, Judgement Day or anything else you wish to call it, we will not know beforehand.

The problem:

What if the sun never eventually dies and human race still able to existence? Do you know any knowledge about the end times?

For that to happen, dozens of scientific laws would have to be violated. That is like saying, what if that car never runs out of gas.

Baptist Holman

I don't know what your trying to prove here but this topic is pointless.

I am not trying to prove anything. I am just sharing an interesting thought. I would love to hear you explain how that is pointless.  

[Monergism]

zz1000zz

For that to happen, dozens of scientific laws would have to be violated. That is like saying, what if that car never runs out of gas.

Laws that are based on theories are debatable.

zz1000zz

I am not trying to prove anything. I am just sharing an interesting thought.

Oh come on... So far your telling me as a fact that the sun will burn out (or die) and mankind will become non-existent.

zz1000zz

I would love to hear you explain how that is pointless.

Human logic means very little to me when you are discussing about God.  

[zz1000zz]

Baptist Holman

zz1000zz

For that to happen, dozens of scientific laws would have to be violated. That is like saying, what if that car never runs out of gas.

Laws that are based on theories are debatable.

zz1000zz

I am not trying to prove anything. I am just sharing an interesting thought.

Oh come on... So far your telling me as a fact that the sun will burn out (or die) and mankind will become non-existent.

Sun releases energy. Doing so requires fuel. Unlimited fuel does not exist, ergo the sun will eventually die. Sure theories are debateable, but that requires you actually debate. You know, the whole explain how they could be wrong, not just say they could be wrong.

Baptist Holman

zz1000zz

I would love to hear you explain how that is pointless.

Human logic means very little to me when you are discussing about God.

Which is why i did not say, "The Bible is wrong OMG!"  

[ioioouiouiouio]

Because, you know, in the (approximately) 5.43 billion (at least) years the sun has left, humanity will never, ever come up with the technology to go beyond our solar system.

The end of Sol is just that. The end of Sol. Not of the universe, not of the galaxy, and not of things outside of thee blast radius of Sol's supernova (assuming that it does supernova, and not implode or collapse).  

[zz1000zz]

Cometh The Inquisitor

Because, you know, in the (approximately) 5.43 billion (at least) years the sun has left, humanity will never, ever come up with the technology to go beyond our solar system.

The end of Sol is just that. The end of Sol. Not of the universe, not of the galaxy, and not of things outside of thee blast radius of Sol's supernova (assuming that it does supernova, and not implode or collapse).

The idea of traveling outside our solar system is possible, but there is nothing to indicate it will ever happen. There is no reason to believe we will ever colonize other solar systems, other than "we could."

Even if we could leave our solar system, we can still logically conclude mankind will eventually die. Entropy in an enclosed system tends to increase, and that alone is enough to guarantee the universe's destruction. At least we can guarantee such under our current understanding of the universe (who knows what may change).

(Incidentally, it is quite possible Earth will be inhabitable before the sun dies due to the difference in energy output.)  

[The Noble Protoman.exe]

Baptist Holman

zz1000zz

For that to happen, dozens of scientific laws would have to be violated. That is like saying, what if that car never runs out of gas.

Laws that are based on theories are debatable.

zz1000zz

I am not trying to prove anything. I am just sharing an interesting thought.

Oh come on... So far your telling me as a fact that the sun will burn out (or die) and mankind will become non-existent.

zz1000zz

I would love to hear you explain how that is pointless.

Human logic means very little to me when you are discussing about God.

If this topic is truly pointless, why was it brought up? It's not a debate, she just wanted to discuss.