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So I got to thinking, how a lot of people that I've seen play very vanilla decks, especially in Type 2 now, and then there's people like me, who play combo orientated decks, or very fast kill decks.

Magic is a vast enough game where almost all kinds of decks can be realized, but there are always two types of people that come in conflict with each other:

1: The type of player that likes long games with two vanilla decks. Their argument is that decks such as these require good play strategy and good thinking to win the day.

2: The type of player that plays decks that win the game before turn 10 or quicker. Their argument is that these decks require an extremely tuned mindset on your deck, being able to think a dozen turns in advance, being able to count your cards to guess what you have in your hand, in play, graveyard, and in library to guess what card you may draw next.

Now, we've all been these two types one time or another in many forms, and some of us have played in tourneys where we've played or played against any of these decks.

The real question i want to pose is, are Kill Combos cheap game ruiners, or are they a sign of advanced skill?

I'm going to say that they are a sign of advanced skill. First of, building these types of decks are tough and often a time consuming process. You may have your base combo, but how will you go about performing the combo? One thing to remember is that your deck MUST be fine tuned to do that one combo, and ONLY THAT ONE COMBO every single time you pick up the deck. This is tougher than it seems: This often means that your deck may run less than 8 creatures, or be open to attack for numerous turns before you can mount an effective defense. Against a color like Blue or Red, this could very well mean you losing the game before you even have a chance. How does one protect him/herself from losing and go on to winning with a combo deck? Good deck building and focus, as well as a strong sideboard, go a long way.

On the defense issue, the Sideboard is ABSOLUTELY IMPORTANT, more so than any other deck IMHO, because it will help you focus defense on certain threats, or provide a secondary win mechanism. For instance, all decks in the 1999 Pro Tour, where the Urza's block was in high gear, sideboarded Phyrexian Processor. One look at the card and it'll tell you why. The ability for this card to beat control such as Replenish Combo and Mono-Blue was very evident. Many decks also either main decked or sideboarded the fameous Masticore, which slaughtered weenies wholesale. These two examples to me, really show the kind of thinking and knowing of potential threats that the player is MOST worried about. People who played the Processor in the sideboard were not worried about weenies, they were worried about control, and those who played Masticore weren't too worried about control.

Deck building is tough, but so is play. Ever play Pros-Bloom? Yawgmoth's Bargain? Replenish Combo? Necropotence? Most of us have, and know how tough it can be to time things. Do I risk Vampiric Tutoring for something, knowing that it may be in my next draw? Have I tapped one extra land which will leave me unable to do the final part of my combo? These are the kind of questions that combo players must challenge themselves with.

Lets take for example, the Yawgmoth's Bargain, which I played. Old School Bargain works that by turn 4, you are able to win via Soul Feast. This ment by turn 1, you had to have white mana in play, turn 2 black mana and Academy Rector, and turn 3 with Tower and able to case Abeyance. The Bargain came out, but you were not in the clear yet
Bargain says to pay 1 life to draw a card, and you have to guess how much life you will have to pay to draw 2 Dark Rituals and a Skirge Familiar
draw too little, and you'll waste time and life. Draw too much you literally lose as you will not have enough life and mana to complete the combo.

The aforementioned example shows you how complex the strategy and play style of the combo player is. One cannot just sit down and play the deck and wipe the floor with the competition: One can only do so with experience and skill, and knowledge of every nook and cranny of your deck. In the case of Bargain, literally drawing 1 life over what you need and you WILL NOT win. It's happened to me before, and it's happened to many others who picked up Bargain for the first time.

In the end, I feel that combo decks really are a new level of skill to learn. You cannot get into these decks without a thurough knowledge of timing and game mechanics, lest you lose and fail to utilize said decks to their advantage. You cannot build these decks with an understanding of what will screw your deck, and what won't. You cannot protect yourself against threats if you cannot build a tight and effective sideboard.

This was a pretty long post, but I hope you all read through it. Discuss, now. What do you all think?

-interestin'. 3nodding

-i prefer buildin' lock deq's. 3nodding

combo deqs are easy enough to disrupt. so if you dirupt it just right they usually cant come back for the win. thats why cards like Cranial Extraction, Pithing Needle, and Uba Mask are so dangerous. Combo deqs cant handle them.

Any experienced (and most intermediate) players know that there are three major archetypes of decks:

Control
Aggro
Combo

Each of these decks is a main concept of the standard MtG deck, but all of these types can be merged together in one deck, if the situation requires. For example, "DrainSlaver" has all three elements in it's deck, with the Moxen, the countermagic, and the Welder/Slaver/Pentavus combo.

People obviously want to get their combo out as soon as possible, but you also have to consider, some combos are not as simple as "1+1=2" to pull off. For example, A combo as simple as "Eternal Witness + 2x 'land acceleration cards, such as Heartbeat of Spring and Dawn's Reflection' + Snap" does not require much strategy, just to get 4 cards into play. Then you have infinite mana, and you can then do as you wish with it ....

Conversely, a combo requiring "March of the Machines + Quicksilver Elemental + Panoptic Mirror + Isochron Scepter + Time Stop" requires your entire deck to be built around it ... and to even think of the combo, it requires skill. To pull it off, you deck has to be finely tuned to work, and it has a lot of room where disruption can stop you.

Do combo decks cheap game ruiners? To a degree, yes. However, the same can be said about control decks. A deck in which you can revive AND kill "Yosei, the Morning Star" every turn AND revive a "Deranged Hermit" AND maintain an "Opposition" (Note, this is one of the ways my "Survival of the Fittest" deck wins) is quite annoying for your opponent, for once you establish control over the board, your opponent would likely concede the game. Similarly, the same can be said about aggro decks. If I can get a 5/3 Trampling Creature out first turn, and then continue to drop cheap, efficient beatsticks every turn, before my opponent can set up their defenses, it's not fun for my opponent.

EVERY deck has a purpose. Some beat you quickly, some lock you down, some just outright win when you least expect it. It's the way the game works. Cards interact with other cards, and combinations are formed. Some are game winners, some are just synergistic. Some counter-act each other. Accept it for what it is, and enjoy the game. People will play anything they like to play, as long as it does what the player wants it to do.

I have played many "killer combo" decks, from "mountain/black lotus/channel/fireball" to the newest, and while they do indeed require a fine sense of the game, they usually fail against someone with a deck of broader scope. I can't count the times I've seen someone's face when I conveniently remove the cincher card from play ...adding a sideboard only increases your chances of disrupting their plans. The best combo decks need countermagics up the butt to assure their success, sadly, and even then it comes down to luck and intuition. Even so, there's no denying the power of a well-tuned killer combo deck-they simply deserve respect.

-this thread is heatin' up. 3nodding

I completely disagree with your last statement.

I'd have to say that a Vintage (or even Legacy) well-based Survival of the Fittest deck is a better combination than any of the top Rock decks floating around on the net.

Survival has card search (deck thinning), combo, control, and acceleraton all in one deck. And I guarantee that I can beat ANY Legacy or Vintage Rock deck with a standard metagamed SotF deck 4/5 times.