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 Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 8:58 am
I've just started doing Philosophy and we're studying a guy named Descartes. We're studying one of his books in which he tries to prove the existance of him and everything.
So far he hasn't given anything concrete to prove that everything going on right now isn't fake. He's come up with some good arguments such as:
1. How do we know we're not dreaming?
2. How do we not know that someone isn't feeding us with these feelings, thoughts and experiances? Like the Matrix kind of.
3. How can we tell that our senses are real when they have deceived us?
I think all three of them are valid, but need a lot of work.
What does everyone else think? Do you think we are indeed real? Or is this just a dream?
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Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 9:40 am
What if... we are all works of literay fiction. That every time someone picks up a pen and starts a story, they're creating another dimension with their imagination. We're living someone else's story, and there's someone living each of ours.
The annoying thing about this theory, is that they've just recently made a movie of it... and I've had the idea for years.
But as for us not being real... to US... it's all real, and that's what's important.
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Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 1:19 pm
we are real no matter what. whether its like santa clause is real (likea story or myth) or like physical in the corporeal form real. this is all a dreaming anyway, i think
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Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 2:18 pm
Well, in this world, yes we are real.
But, we could be a figment of someone’s imagination, or part of a book.
Think of it this way.
We’re real in our own world.
And if another world exists, they’re real in theirs.
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Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 2:55 pm
Hmm interesting.
I agree with the jist of all that. So really it's like that saying 'Innocent until proven guilty.' We're 'Real until proven fake?'
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Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 4:44 pm
lostdreams30427 we are real no matter what. whether its like santa clause is real (likea story or myth) or like physical in the corporeal form real. this is all a dreaming anyway, i think Your thoughts bring up interesting thoughts. Can a world exsist based on that of a idea or myth? Could we be a world that is based solely on the hope that people will continue to tell their children and their children wil tell their children? If they ever stop telling the story will we die? If it is a dream then do we just stop when the dreamer awakes and then our world and all its history start over when the dreamer falls back into a sleep? And, if we are a dream then is our dream world their real world? I belive our world is all a manner of perspective. Looking at it from all angles is the only way to know why we are truely here, but that isn't possible is it?
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Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 4:48 pm
That is very complex theology, you cant prove that we are real or fake but no matter what we exist, because if we didnt exist we would know we existed and therefore would not ... exist ^^ there would just be nothing.. the question is do we exist the way we've always believed or do we exist the way dragons exist, in myth and legend as someone said above.
I prefer not to think to hard on issues as this, its kind of one of those impossible questions, like 0x10, there is no answer.. its always going to be 0.. we can never come up with an answer, the answers are infinite.
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Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 6:03 pm
Blood`Eternity That is very complex theology, you cant prove that we are real or fake but no matter what we exist, because if we didnt exist we would know we existed and therefore would not ... exist ^^ there would just be nothing.. the question is do we exist the way we've always believed or do we exist the way dragons exist, in myth and legend as someone said above.
I prefer not to think to hard on issues as this, its kind of one of those impossible questions, like 0x10, there is no answer.. its always going to be 0.. we can never come up with an answer, the answers are infinite. Actully todays its zero and its probubly going to be zero tomarrow but eventully someone will prove its not zero......
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Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 6:37 pm
I've always thought that I was part of a video game. O_o
So, I see. I've been thinking about that for 5 years. You got to it before me, aww.
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Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 6:57 pm
We probably won't ever figure out whether we are real or not or just someone's dream but before you can really go into that sort of debate you have to define 'What is real?'
Does real mean made of matter, as in photons, electorns and such? Does that mean our thoughts and feelings aren't real because they aren't made of matter in a conventional sense?
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Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:44 am
It is too easy to tell if your dreaming or not. In a dream have absolute control.
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Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:55 am
Well, I would say that it is irrelevant whether this is a dream or a reality, as this is the only reality we know. Even if we are just living a dream, should we kill ourselves? We are all conscious of each other (as I would say that this thread proves) so even if this isn't real, whats the worry? We are still a community, we still have culture and as far as I know we still have Independance.
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Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 11:11 am
Devvo Hmm interesting.
I agree with the jist of all that. So really it's like that saying 'Innocent until proven guilty.' We're 'Real until proven fake?' Rather, fake until proven real. The basis of Rene Descartes' entire philosophy was that all information gathered through the senses is unreliable until it can be proven otherwise.
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Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:27 pm
The_Wicked_Man Devvo Hmm interesting.
I agree with the jist of all that. So really it's like that saying 'Innocent until proven guilty.' We're 'Real until proven fake?' Rather, fake until proven real. The basis of Rene Descartes' entire philosophy was that all information gathered through the senses is unreliable until it can be proven otherwise. Yeah I see that. However if we're saying that even if this isn't reality we only know this one so it is our reality. Which means we're believing it until we can prove that it isn't real.
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Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:30 pm
Althera We probably won't ever figure out whether we are real or not or just someone's dream but before you can really go into that sort of debate you have to define 'What is real?' Does real mean made of matter, as in photons, electorns and such? Does that mean our thoughts and feelings aren't real because they aren't made of matter in a conventional sense? Descartes seems to think that our thoughts our more real than the existance of our bodies. Which is kind of true because you can't doubt that you can think without thinking.
To me real just means existing.
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