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[Biology/Evolution] Human Species Split

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Starlock
Crew

PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 10:09 am


In searching around for a good evolution topic to create here, I came across this article.

Evolution Expert Fears Human Species will be Split into Two Subspecies

I worry about this article not so much because of its content (some of which does have a good basis), but because the average person with barely an elementary-level grasp of evolutionary theory will read things out of context and blow them out of proportion; this effect is made worse by the fact that it's a badly written article. Poorly written as it is, I've got some discussion points for ya related to its topic.

arrow What do you think of the proposed split in the human species between the upper class and lower class? Does this have genuine merit or is it propoganda?
arrow Related to this, what do you think of the implications suggested by the use or lack of use of medical technology?
arrow What do you think about what the researcher says about what the average person will look like a thousand years from now?
arrow Are his predictions for the year 12,000 C.E. realistic?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 7:39 pm


Starlock

arrow What do you think of the proposed split in the human species between the upper class and lower class? Does this have genuine merit or is it propoganda?

As the article suggested, this prediction was already made by H. G. Wells in The Time Machine. It has merrit, though his theory makes assumptions that aren't so certain as they at first seem.
Quote:

arrow Related to this, what do you think of the implications suggested by the use or lack of use of medical technology?

Medical technology allows people who are otherwise unfit to survive and reproduce, and the technology will continue to allow otherwise fatal gene combinations to be carried over to the next generation. This will result in a lot of negative mutations surviving, weakening the species as a whole until genetic technology allows us to screen out those bad genes on our own.
Quote:

arrow What do you think about what the researcher says about what the average person will look like a thousand years from now?

The researcher's own fantasy seems to be showing through. He assumes that people with the traits he's positing will be more likely to reproduce, and more prolifically than those with other traits. This seems like it reflects his own views on what is attractive, and thus he assumes it's what everyone finds attractive, meaning more oportunities for these people to reproduce.

The trouble with that theory (other than the personal bais on what is attractive) is that really, it's not neccissarily the ones with the most oportunity for sex who reproduce most, but the ones who have least access to birth control and fewest things besides sex to modivate them. Basicly every person who reaches sexual maturity has the oportunity to reproduce, but from there, the issue is who is more likely to have children and pass on their DNA.
Quote:

arrow Are his predictions for the year 12,000 C.E. realistic?

His predictions, all his predictions, are predicated on the assumption that this society will continue to exist in its current form until the year 12,000. A species can only adapt to an environment which is largely static over a significant period of time. Our society is transfoming too fast for our bodies to truly adapt to it. How long have computers existed? How long before computers are shown up by an even fancier and stranger technology? If human technology doesn't plateu, the world will change too quickly for us to evolve naturally to adapt to it.

The only advantage in a constantly changing world is adaptablity. The end result will be basicly a hodge podge of potentially positive mutations, likely centered around mental flexibility. Whatever physical developments occur, as long as we continue to improve in our ability to adapt mentally, and our ability to adapt our environment to suit us, those traits will be an advantage.

That's my take on the matter. Anyone with a better background in evolutionary biology should feel free to demolish my assumptions and put forward something better.

Iron Sole


linxx85

PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 7:17 am


L rofl
I'm sorry, but that article was hilarious. Are you sure it was a serious article? I think it was satirical.
Look at the last line: "Curry spent two months investigating to reach his conclusions."
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:45 pm


This is all assuming that we haven't destroyed ourselves by then ..... I mean really, the TV channel Bravo funded his study .... what is he basing his assumptions on??

beaufleur


Starlock
Crew

PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 10:51 am


Good to see you guys pointing out the shortcomings of the article. Thought about pointing that out in the OP, but decided against it. The question it raises are still valid though, guys. There have been others who have suggested similar things. Though it is difficult to know for sure where the pathways of evolution will take us, considering them can be an interesting excersise
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 10:19 am


It's not just HG Wells who speculates about a future with a clear divide between the intelligent and some sort of stupid underclass. "Brave New World" by Aldous Huxley describes a world where people are genetically engineered to be either the intelligent elite or the laboring, mongoloid underclass.

In the recent movie "Idiocracy", everyone in the world is a moron. The president of the US is a professional wrestler. Everyone should watch this movie BTW. I can totally see this happening.

And there is short story called "The Marching Morons" (lemme know if you find it, k? It's out of print), where most of the world is the moron underclass, who unwittingly live their lives serving the rich, intelligent 1%. Sound familiar...?

And then there is "Harrison Bergeron", by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr. where everyone must wear devices that handicap them, because no one is allowed to be better than anyone else at any particular thing. Ballerinas wear weights around their ankles, etc.

The way the world is going right now, I can see any of these situations happening, easily.

The FDA


Iron Sole

PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 8:53 pm


GG Allin,

Actually, H. G. Wells' The Time Machine suggested that the upper class would degenerate into a childlike species living in total complacency, while the lower class would retain some spark of intelect because they had to do the actual work and deal with the inevidable breakdowns of the machines that support the upper class. The lower class actually farmed the upper class like sheep.

All the rest I agree with.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:57 am


Iron Sole
GG Allin,

Actually, H. G. Wells' The Time Machine suggested that the upper class would degenerate into a childlike species living in total complacency, while the lower class would retain some spark of intelect because they had to do the actual work and deal with the inevidable breakdowns of the machines that support the upper class. The lower class actually farmed the upper class like sheep.

All the rest I agree with.


Thanks for the heads up. I hope I didn't make it sound like I have read "The Time Machine." It is sitting on my shelf right now, but I have never touched it. Maybe I will pick it up now.

All the others I have read, though. Or watched. xp


It sounds kind of optimistic to think that the lower class will some day have control over the upper class, I think. Maybe control through sheer numbers, if people keep breeding the way they are. I know too many baby mamas... Then again, who goes to trade schools? Being a plumber, an electrician, those aren't white collar jobs.

Anyway, watch "Idiocracy". It's a silly movie, but if things go pretty much the way they are for the next thousand years or so...it seems pretty plausible to me, sadly.

But if we're lucky, maybe climate change and/or a natural disaster will wipe out the human race before we get to that point...

The FDA


Sprock

PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 6:52 pm


From what I understand, evolutionary splits have always occurred as the result of geographical isolation. I'm skeptical as to whether or not social castes could actually create an evolutionary split at all. One should keep in mind that the upper class does not remain with the same people throughout history. When the lower or middle class revolts, you get a new upper class. Sure there are sometimes high levels of separation between the classes, but I think our species is far too intermingled and social isolation too temporary for it to have a real evolutionary impact.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:40 am


Interesting point about the social upheaval. Part of it too, I suspect, is that just plain not enough time has elapsed for there to be any tremendously noticeable shifts. We still have that vestigal appendix, after all, and the ever useless muscles that raise our arm hairs up when its cold outside. If only we still had a nice, full furr coat to use in the winter!

Starlock
Crew


Sprock

PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 12:19 pm


Indeed, if a split was going to happen, it probably would have happened already when we were still geographically isolated for some length of time (I'm not sure how long that went on for). Even that wasn't enough to create a split in our species, just different races.
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:58 pm


Knives the Cookie Viking
Indeed, if a split was going to happen, it probably would have happened already when we were still geographically isolated for some length of time (I'm not sure how long that went on for). Even that wasn't enough to create a split in our species, just different races.


I watched a documentary on race, actually as part of one of my college courses. I forget which one... I think it was social psychology actually. In basic, though, it presented undeinable evidence that race is actually a social construct and doesn't have a genetic basis. A black person could be more closely related by genetics to a white person than to a fellow black person. Interesting that? Skin pigmentation really IS only skin deep, even from an evolutionary standpoint!

Starlock
Crew


Sprock

PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 2:20 am


Starlock
Knives the Cookie Viking
Indeed, if a split was going to happen, it probably would have happened already when we were still geographically isolated for some length of time (I'm not sure how long that went on for). Even that wasn't enough to create a split in our species, just different races.


I watched a documentary on race, actually as part of one of my college courses. I forget which one... I think it was social psychology actually. In basic, though, it presented undeinable evidence that race is actually a social construct and doesn't have a genetic basis. A black person could be more closely related by genetics to a white person than to a fellow black person. Interesting that? Skin pigmentation really IS only skin deep, even from an evolutionary standpoint!

Whosa-wha? I don't see how a skin color and other physical attributes people are born with could be a social construct, without any genetic basis. I could understand the genetic differences being slight enough that a black person could have a closer genetic relation to a white person than another black person, but how could it have no genetic basis at all?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 9:41 am


Knives the Cookie Viking
Starlock
Knives the Cookie Viking
Indeed, if a split was going to happen, it probably would have happened already when we were still geographically isolated for some length of time (I'm not sure how long that went on for). Even that wasn't enough to create a split in our species, just different races.


I watched a documentary on race, actually as part of one of my college courses. I forget which one... I think it was social psychology actually. In basic, though, it presented undeinable evidence that race is actually a social construct and doesn't have a genetic basis. A black person could be more closely related by genetics to a white person than to a fellow black person. Interesting that? Skin pigmentation really IS only skin deep, even from an evolutionary standpoint!

Whosa-wha? I don't see how a skin color and other physical attributes people are born with could be a social construct, without any genetic basis. I could understand the genetic differences being slight enough that a black person could have a closer genetic relation to a white person than another black person, but how could it have no genetic basis at all?


People attribute more things to race than just skin color; that's the part of it that is a social construct and really doesn't have a genetic basis. It has a cultural basis more than any genetic basis. But we have all these assumptions about what a particular racial group is like and often we assume it's genetics. It's not. It's more culture than genetics; hence a social construct rather than something founded in genetics. Of course skin pigmentation is genetically determined, but a ton of othere stereotypes based on race are not at all genetic. Sorry I didn't make that clear.

Starlock
Crew


Sprock

PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 1:57 am


Starlock
People attribute more things to race than just skin color; that's the part of it that is a social construct and really doesn't have a genetic basis. It has a cultural basis more than any genetic basis. But we have all these assumptions about what a particular racial group is like and often we assume it's genetics. It's not. It's more culture than genetics; hence a social construct rather than something founded in genetics. Of course skin pigmentation is genetically determined, but a ton of othere stereotypes based on race are not at all genetic. Sorry I didn't make that clear.

Ha, maybe it's just that I'm so-totally-in-every-way-not-a-racist, so I don't tend to attribute as many non-physical things to race as others do. When I think race, I usually think skin color, hair color/type, average height, eyes, other facial features, that kinda thing.
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