|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 9:41 pm
Yesterday was probably one of the most shocking and disappointing days in my entire life. I was in the car with my little sister and my mom when we drove by the soon-to-be-built Plan Parenthood. I saw the protesters with their signs that said "Death Sold Here" and I got a bit angry. I flipped them off, which I now see as an immature move of my own, but I was being a bit bitchy yesterday, so I didn't care. My mom didn't care, but my little sister was mad at me. When she asked me why I did that, I told her because I thought they were ignorant asses enforcing male-supremacy and not allowing women rights to their own body's. She said what they were doing was the right thing.
I was speechless for ten minutes or so, because at first I had thought she was of the same opinion as me. Her reasons were obviously not her own, and I'm still a bit shocked. I had asked her why it was "the right thing" and she had told me, and I quote, "because abortion is bad." I thought she was joking, because that is not a good reason in any shape or form. I then asked her why abortion was "bad" and she told me because it was killing a baby. I countered with the fact that a fetus is not considered a baby, and she said "it's a future-baby." At that point, I wanted to scream.
Basically, I'm still not talking to my little sister, because I don't think I can look at her without being disgusted. It's sad, but I take everything to the extreme, so when someone says something that I disagree with so vehemently, I tend to be a bit of an a**. Thus, I find not talking to them leads to less tears, and a smaller chance of me having to rip my hair out.
Is it wrong that I'm so mad at my little sister? I'm not mad that she's pro-life, I'm mad at her reasons for being so. If she gave me a ligitimate reason, I wouldn't react this way, but with what she presented me, I believe I have every right to be mad at her. She wouldn't listen to me, even when I explained my point of view. She said she "understood" what abortion was, when she so clearly didn't. If you think I'm wrong in being mad, explain, because I'm very upset.
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 10:25 pm
Your sister, how old is she again? Depending on her age, she may lack the skills of discernment. She may be fed propaganda by a pro-life friend, or a church.
Although the frustration towards her is natural, if I were in your shoes I would feel more pity for her than anger.
free access to an unbiased education might calm her concerns that she is being led to believe that the "life" inside is being viciously "murdered". There's a lot of assumptions that she's yet to uncover, such as the assumption that "it" is sentient. Remember, pro-life propaganda tends to sway people's emotions rather than exercise higher reasoning abilities, so come to think of it, her reaction isn't that uncommon. It's not a good idea to force her to read materials, but find a way for her to get easy access to an unbiased education.
I know your ultimate goal is to help her, not hurt her. It's nice to have such a caring older brother like yourself.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 10:35 pm
How does being apposed to abortion enforce male supremacey? I've never heard a person say: "Abortion is wrong because it'll ruin men as rulers of society!" I only hear that: "Abortion is wrong because it's killing a future life!" Personally, I hate it when people make things worse than they seem. Like you saying being anti-abortion = enforcing male supremacy.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 10:49 pm
I don't know.
It does depend on your sister's age.
Until I was able to discern the meaning of bodily integrity, etc., I thought just that: "abortion is bad" because when I was younger, I was like "why would they want to kill a baby?" but I didn't really ever think about it. First I had heard about it had been a movie where a doctor was running an abortion clinic, but there were also children there... it's vague... and I remember him talking about a girl puncturing her uterus - for a reason I hadn't figured out. It's something basic, when you're a child, to be opposed to that, so that's why I ask your sister's age.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 5:04 am
Depends on her age. If she's old enough to use the computer, point her in teh direction of this guild.
If not, explain that abortion isn't what she's been told on the playground.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 6:50 am
GreenSouthpaw First I had heard about it had been a movie where a doctor was running an abortion clinic, but there were also children there... it's vague... and I remember him talking about a girl puncturing her uterus - for a reason I hadn't figured out. Cider House Rules?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 7:29 am
[gossamer]!smile. How does being apposed to abortion enforce male supremacey? I've never heard a person say: "Abortion is wrong because it'll ruin men as rulers of society!" I only hear that: "Abortion is wrong because it's killing a future life!" Personally, I hate it when people make things worse than they seem. Like you saying being anti-abortion = enforcing male supremacy. Imagine a world where women had to keep every pregnancy they conceive. The choices the woman is left with are to stick it out as a single parent (which can be EXTREMELY difficult, especially if she is very young), or be dependent on her family or the male who conceived with her. This is effectively going back to the choice for women that was ever so popular in the Middle Ages. Don't have sex, or be forced into traditional female roles (that of dependent on men or family). It punishes female sexuality, much like was done in the Middle Ages. And it takes away from women their right to body integrity, which is a right that EVERYONE in the world has by international law. It puts down women, it trivialises all the work that has been done by feminism, and it brings us back to a time when the patriarchal society ruled unchallenged. It's no small wonder that abortion was first made legal in the 1970s, the same time as the major push of the women's liberation movement. The two are very much tied together. For women, the possibility of abortion means independence from a male-dominated society. It means CHOICE. This isn't "making it worse than it seems." The pro-life stance is an attack on women's rights, whether they realize it or not. As for the sister, I think you are justified in being angry. Were she my friend, that would be the end of the friendship. BUT, she's your sister. That means that you can never get rid of her. You can disown her when you move out of the home, but that still poses the problem of christmas dinners and other family gatherings. You can never truly be rid of your flesh and blood. By simply being angry at her, far from making her see that she was wrong, you are making her think that you are just being stupid and unfair. Attitudes like this tend only to reinforce negative beliefs. If I were to suggest a course of action, it would be to find her at a time when you know that she has quite a bit of time free, and approach her. Say "Hi, we had a bit of a tiff the other day about abortion and I don't want this to come between us. This is something that means a lot to me and I would like us to talk this out." Get her to give you ALL the reasons why she is pro-life. Ask questions, etc... but don't raise your voice or challenge her yet. This is more of a reconnaissance mission to see how far the propaganda has gone. Once you've heard everything, correct her NICELY. For example, if she lists silent scream or saline solution and stuff like that, just explain to her that these aren't real. That these either aren't done anymore or are just completely made up. Be NICE about it. Hostility will only drive her further away. Be prepared to back yourself up with links and such. If she contests them or says that they are biased, ask her to provide you with links that prove her point that don't come from websites that have self-admitted to having pro-life or pro-Christian agendas. And finally, say "can I tell you why I think that abortions are so important?" And explain to her that everyone in the world has the right to bodily domain. Even prisoners. Explain to her that the "baby" is inside the woman and is violating this, whether it means to or not. Explain to her that the point of abortion isn't to kill the "baby." It's simply to remove it from the woman. The fact that it dies as a result is an unfortunate consequence.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 7:57 am
Don't be mad at your sister, I was the same way when I was little until when I was about 9 and my mom told me why she was pro-choice and I thought it made since. I have a friend who's the same way because she's been fed crap by her parents. It's not your sister's fault. I'd recomend telling your sister why your pro-choice and it might change her mind.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 9:35 am
Pretty much what they said. Depends mostly on her age, and the what she's seen and hasn't seen. Hell, I was more or less pro-life until I stumbled on this guild and read the arguements. (Yes, I'd like to thank [Ernie]'s sig for directing me. Thank you, [Ernie]'s sig!)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 10:20 am
I wonder how old your sister is.
I think you should not be mad at her, but see this as an opportunity to become closer to her. Educate her about the facts (such as fetal deveopment), introduce her slowly to the various arguments pro-choicers and pro-lifers make (otherwise she'll see only pro-choice arguments as preaching). Take advantage of this situation and don't sit there angrily as your sister is persuaded to join the dark side.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 11:12 am
adabyron GreenSouthpaw First I had heard about it had been a movie where a doctor was running an abortion clinic, but there were also children there... it's vague... and I remember him talking about a girl puncturing her uterus - for a reason I hadn't figured out. Cider House Rules?
I don't know, lol , I was like 7 and I don't know if I knew what it was. But that could be it lol.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 11:40 am
[gossamer]!smile. How does being apposed to abortion enforce male supremacey? I've never heard a person say: "Abortion is wrong because it'll ruin men as rulers of society!" I only hear that: "Abortion is wrong because it's killing a future life!" Personally, I hate it when people make things worse than they seem. Like you saying being anti-abortion = enforcing male supremacy. Just because you don't see the reason straightaway or it's not the most obvious reason doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. Some people dig deeper and put two and two together. You know, your sister is probably young. I used to think that way, too. It was mostly because my mother had an abortion shortly before her fifteenth birthday, and her mother forced her into it. I was mad because I didn't have that "sibling" (I'm an only child and I hate it). It took time for me. I didn't truly understand things like BD and the difference between a baby and a fetus until I was fifteen or sixteen. Wow. I'll be eighteen in February... I haven't been pro-choice for very long. But, y'know, it was an abortion thread in ED that I was "debating" in when I was probably fifteen that changed my stance from anti-choice to pro-choice. I think you should give her time... She may not really be able to understand the difference between what something starts out as and what it eventually becomes. If you start out as a medical school student, you shouldn't be given the status of "doctor" because you have the potential to become one and because it's the intended result. Once she has detailed sex ed and maybe takes a biology course or two she might understand better, but it may be up to you to fill in the gaps when she's older because, as we all know, what the schools teach ain't always right or complete. We've all heard the stories.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 12:40 pm
My younger sister has is thirteen and over the last few years she has started to hear more and more about abortion and is starting to form her opinions about it.
I don't want to cram my opinions down her throat, especially since my sister is adopted and her mother did nearly abort her. I can understand how that would change her perspective.
We live in a conservative state that is almost completely white, christian and republican. So I knew that when she went to school she was going to be exposed to nothing but pro-life views. Even some of the recommended books that she read for the reading program were pro-life books.
Once I realized she was starting to have the pro-life information crammed down her throat I decided it was time to step in and give her the other side of the story. So I started telling her about the views and values of both pro-choice and pro-life people. Once I started talking about the issues of rape and medical problems she realized that abortion wasn't always a bad choice. From there we started talking about other situations in which a woman might want an abortion.
I realized that when she was thinking about abortions she was only thinking about the stereotypical slutty teenager who doesn't care and just keeps getting abortions because they are easy. Once I introduced other scenarios, like a woman who already has 6 kids and is on welfare, or a young girl who is pressured into sex by an older guy she started to see that abortion is not a black and white issue.
Try talking openly with your sister. Respect her views and share your views with her.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 12:44 pm
When I said "enforcing male supremacy" I wasn't referring to abortion itself, but the fact that a large majority of protestors are male, and were male when we drove past. The fact that they are allowed almost complete freedom to their own body, yet they choose to limit what women are allowed to do with theirs. I wasn't saying that anti-abortion = enforcing male supremacy, rather I was referring to the fact that males have always put limits on women while never having to suffer as such.
I realize now that my expectations for my little sister are unreasonable, being that she's only thirteen. I'm fourteen, and I always expect so much out of her, because she's my little sister. I don't want to ever have to look at her and think she's stupid, but instead I always want to believe she's the best of the best, and when she isn't I get frustrated. She has so many things at her disposal, yet she chooses to spend her days watching T.V. and text messaging. I guess these are things many people associate with being a teenager, but I've always been a sort of a nerd, so I don't necessarily understand her choices.
The problem is, my sister doesn't understand what she's talking about, even if she says she does. When I say abortion, she immediately pictures an infant. Unfortunately, my little sister is too heavily influenced by her friends and what they say for me to explain it now. My mom has chosen to explain it to her, but my mom can get very confrontational, so I told her to wait.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
![.[E]xplicit[R]esidue.'s avatar](https://a1cdn.gaiaonline.com/dress-up/avatar/ava/ad/28/3b200a9d3e28ad_flip.png?t=1165208457_3.00_00)
Reply
![[gossamer]!smile.'s avatar](https://a1cdn.gaiaonline.com/dress-up/avatar/ava/ba/4d/b31ff43374dba_flip.png?t=1317586731_6.00_00)
