Goddess Tarot Deck Offensive? | Page 1 | Pagan Fluffy Rehabilitation Center | Guild Forums

blindfaith^_^

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Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 9:03 am

As an eclectic pagan, I often have to stop and think about exactly what I am borrowing from other belief systems and whether or not said borrowed item makes sense or is ethical to use. Recently I've been fairly hung up on proper deity use. I've never really had to concern myself too much directly with these issues. I don't worship any set(s) of deities and I do my best to avoid tools that in context are used with specific deites.

However I do use a Goddess Tarot deck. I hadn't really even given too much thought to it recently because I'm not calling on any of the deities in the deck or attempting to work with them in any way, their pictures are just on the cards. Recently though, I've thought about it some more and considered that the Goddess' association with X tarot card trait might be found insulting or inaccurate (probably both). As such, I wanted to throw out the question to those in the scene who do worship specific deities. Would you find it insulting or morally wrong for a person to use a tarot deck that had some of your Goddesses on them? Does the use of specific mythologies incoporated with the orginal meanings of the cards alter the answer to such a question?

Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 9:50 am

My personal deck has my deities in it.

However- the cards are meant to draw from the total nature of the deity.

The most respectful Eclectic I have ever met actually "colored over" the one line descriptions listed at the bottom of the card and instead uses them as a representation of myth within the spiritual context of daily life.

Nuri in the past has addressed this concept wonderfully- in speaking to the myths as metaphor.

Do I find single word discriptions inaccurate and annoying? Of course.
Do I think there is a respectful way around this? Very much so.

TeaDidikai

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VisasMarr

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Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 3:54 pm

I really love my Goddess Tarot deck, it's my favorite. I am not sure how accurate or inaccurate it is. I find the symbolism and metaphores work well enough for me. Whether or not it is tresspassing on a culture, I don't know.

Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 4:10 pm

VisasMarr

I really love my Goddess Tarot deck, it's my favorite. I am not sure how accurate or inaccurate it is. I find the symbolism and metaphores work well enough for me. Whether or not it is tresspassing on a culture, I don't know.

I really love mine too, and indeed it has become THE deck I use. I don't really want to change it, I find the readings to be largely accurate for my personal use and others have often commented on how good the readings are. However, there are things more important in life than my comfort zone with the certain deck of cards and since I do now seem to be giving out tarot card readings fairly frequently to pretty much strangers I want to be sure that the deck I use isn't just as accurate as possible but also that it isn't morally wrong or offensive to the religions the Goddesses come from.

I mean there are other decks and if I had to I would get another one, but I really am very comfortable and satified with this one.

blindfaith^_^

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TeaDidikai

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Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 4:45 pm

I might point out that were any of the Domari Deities I work with on that deck- I would have far more issue with it than I do.

Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 6:25 pm

TeaDidikai

I might point out that were any of the Domari Deities I work with on that deck- I would have far more issue with it than I do.

With what little I remember reading of your faith, I don't find that too surprising. Random people that can claim no (okay, so legal probably isn't the best word here) "word Maze can't remember this early in the morning" reason to be aware/messing with/looking at your deities aren't really accepted, correct?

(Sorta) Closed Religion versus World Myth Stuff That Most People Have At Least Vaguely Heard Of, and all.

Maze

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TeaDidikai

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Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 7:53 pm

Maze

TeaDidikai

I might point out that were any of the Domari Deities I work with on that deck- I would have far more issue with it than I do.

With what little I remember reading of your faith, I don't find that too surprising. Random people that can claim no (okay, so legal probably isn't the best word here) "word Maze can't remember this early in the morning" reason to be aware/messing with/looking at your deities aren't really accepted, correct?

(Sorta) Closed Religion versus World Myth Stuff That Most People Have At Least Vaguely Heard Of, and all.

Metagenetic and Closed Cultures are the concepts you're grasping at.

But there is more to it as well.

The deck in question to me doesn't do a whole lot to present the deity as an individual.

Now, in my deck, certain individuals I know personally do make an appearence- but that is because 1) I am the one reading the cards and 2) The sum total of my experiences with said individuals makes for a very powerful message within the card.

Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 1:38 am

I haven't seen said deck.
But, the Irish Gods are tied to Ireland.
I have been bribing, threatening and cajoling my way into getting two of them to piggy back across to the US with me when I come over, but they may well tell me to ******** off.
What I'm trying to get at here is that having the Irish Gods and Goddesses on the deck would be innappropriate. But to be honest, I don't think they'd care.

CuAnnan

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VisasMarr

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Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 2:38 am

TeaDidikai

Maze

TeaDidikai

I might point out that were any of the Domari Deities I work with on that deck- I would have far more issue with it than I do.

With what little I remember reading of your faith, I don't find that too surprising. Random people that can claim no (okay, so legal probably isn't the best word here) "word Maze can't remember this early in the morning" reason to be aware/messing with/looking at your deities aren't really accepted, correct?

(Sorta) Closed Religion versus World Myth Stuff That Most People Have At Least Vaguely Heard Of, and all.

Metagenetic and Closed Cultures are the concepts you're grasping at.

But there is more to it as well.

The deck in question to me doesn't do a whole lot to present the deity as an individual.

Now, in my deck, certain individuals I know personally do make an appearence- but that is because 1) I am the one reading the cards and 2) The sum total of my experiences with said individuals makes for a very powerful message within the card.

It definitly presents the various Goddesses from a Mythological and (probably soft-polytheistic) Archtypical perspective.

Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:11 am

reagun ban

I haven't seen said deck.
But, the Irish Gods are tied to Ireland.
I have been bribing, threatening and cajoling my way into getting two of them to piggy back across to the US with me when I come over, but they may well tell me to ******** off.
What I'm trying to get at here is that having the Irish Gods and Goddesses on the deck would be innappropriate. But to be honest, I don't think they'd care.

Well there are two Celtic (is Aurthurian considered Celtic?) Goddesses in the deck, but I do not believe they are Irish.

The first is VII - Movement (The Chariot) Rhiannon.
The second is XX - Judgment Gwennhwyfar.

The Major Arcana in order. Please note that the "origins" are according to the book by Kris Waldherr.

# / Title / Original Title / Goddess / Origins
0 / Beginnings / The Fool / Tara / Tibet
1 / Magic / The Magician / Isis / Egypt
2 / Wisdom / The High Priestess / Sarasvati / Hindu
3 / Fertility / The Empress / Estsanatlehi / Navajo
4 / Power / The Emperor / Freyja / Norse
5 / Tradition / The Hierophant / Juno / Roman
6/ Love / The Lovers / Venus / Roman
7 / Movement / The Chariot / Rhiannon / Celtic
8 / Justice / - * / Athena / Greek
9 / Contemplation /The Hermit / Chang O / Chinese
10 / Fortune / Wheel of Fortune / Lakshmi / Hindu
11 / Strength / - * / Oya / Yoruba
12 / Sacrifice / The Hanged Man / Kuan Yin / Chinese
13 / Transformation/ Death / Ukemochi / Japanese
14 / Balance /Temperance / Yemana / Santeria
15 / Temptation / The Devil / Nyai Loro Kidul/ Javanese
16 / Oppression / The Tower / The Wawalak / Austrailian Aboriginal
17 / The Star / - / Inanna / Sumarian
18 / The Moon / - / Diana / Roman
19 / The Sun / - / The Zorya / Slavic
20 / Judgement / - / Gwenhwyfar / Celtic
21 / The World / - / Gaia / Greek

* The positions of Justice and Strength have been switched.

VisasMarr

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queertastrophy

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Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 7:57 am

VisasMarr

The Emperor / Freyja /

Is that a typo, or what the card says? 'Cause...I'm confused (what else is new?).

Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 7:59 am

VisasMarr

It definitly presents the various Goddesses from a Mythological and (probably soft-polytheistic) Archtypical perspective.

Yeah- we all know how I feel about Soft-Polytheism.

Gwennhwyfar... as Judgment? rofl I had forgotten about that.

Even ignoring that she isn't a goddess... Judgement? rofl

TeaDidikai

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saint dreya
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Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 8:41 am

BlueRoseTorn

VisasMarr

The Emperor / Freyja /

Is that a typo, or what the card says? 'Cause...I'm confused (what else is new?).

the author of the cards took some liberties and created new names for some of the cards, hence why Power is in front of Emperor.

i'm suprised that the author used Gwennhwyfar...and rather unnerved...

Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 8:59 am

phoenix shadowwolf

BlueRoseTorn

VisasMarr

The Emperor / Freyja /

Is that a typo, or what the card says? 'Cause...I'm confused (what else is new?).

the author of the cards took some liberties and created new names for some of the cards, hence why Power is in front of Emperor.

i'm suprised that the author used Gwennhwyfar...and rather unnerved...

Yeah the use of the Goddesses and not really Goddesses is a little odd. To be honest I got the cards a while ago because I liked the pictures. The cards ended up being my favorited deck because the readings are accurate, however the little infos they have with the Goddesses are pretty much wrong or too vague to be helpful, which of course got me to think that perhaps the whole deck could be considered offensive. Hence the question.

blindfaith^_^

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CuAnnan

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Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 9:05 am

blindfaith^_^

phoenix shadowwolf

BlueRoseTorn

VisasMarr

The Emperor / Freyja /

Is that a typo, or what the card says? 'Cause...I'm confused (what else is new?).

the author of the cards took some liberties and created new names for some of the cards, hence why Power is in front of Emperor.

i'm suprised that the author used Gwennhwyfar...and rather unnerved...

Yeah the use of the Goddesses and not really Goddesses is a little odd. To be honest I got the cards a while ago because I liked the pictures. The cards ended up being my favorited deck because the readings are accurate, however the little infos they have with the Goddesses are pretty much wrong or too vague to be helpful, which of course got me to think that perhaps the whole deck could be considered offensive. Hence the question.

We're not questioning the validity of the deck. AFAIC the deck images should just reflect the archetypes they represent. Anything that can encompass them will work.
We're just commenting on the use of mythohistorical people in the context of Gods.

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