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Shnobes

PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 8:45 pm


I know this can cause a lot of controversy but I have some questions and I know there are some people who could answer them. I welcome everyone to join in on a friendly and nonviolent discusison of religion.

1) What/who are the agnostics?
A. What are the main beliefs?
B. How do these beliefs affect humanity?

2) What/who are the secular humanists?
A. What are the main beliefs?
B. How do these beliefs affect humanity?

3) What is Taoism?

4) What if you're scared of religion but find that there is a religion that has many of the same beliefs you do?

5) How do you determine your religion? Do you create the belief?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 9:11 pm


Shinobi Kitty
1) What/who are the agnostics?
A. What are the main beliefs?
B. How do these beliefs affect humanity?

1)People who aren't sure wether or not there is a god.
A. They aren't sure. That's there whole thing.
B. They don't. Agnostics aren't ready to say that there is nothing there, but they have no proof, or not enough proof, that there is. So, they just sort of sit on the fence about it.

TuffGhost
Crew


Vague
Captain

PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 9:13 pm


Shinobi Kitty
I know this can cause a lot of controversy but I have some questions and I know there are some people who could answer them. I welcome everyone to join in on a friendly and nonviolent discusison of religion.

1) What/who are the agnostics?
A. What are the main beliefs?
B. How do these beliefs affect humanity?

2) What/who are the secular humanists?
A. What are the main beliefs?
B. How do these beliefs affect humanity?

3) What is Taoism?

4) What if you're scared of religion but find that there is a religion that has many of the same beliefs you do?

5) How do you determine your religion? Do you create the belief?

This sounds like a worksheet from Social Studies or Geography.
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 5:22 am


Shinobi Kitty


3) What is Taoism?

4) What if you're scared of religion but find that there is a religion that has many of the same beliefs you do?

5) How do you determine your religion? Do you create the belief?


3)Taoism is kinda complicated. It believes that governments are unnaturall and everyone should try to be as natural as possible. They also have some odd sayings in this big book that they have to memorize compleatly.

4)I'd read more into it to see if it's really right for me.

5)Well, if you want the structure of a large religion, then you join one. But if non of them work for you, you can just believe what you want to believe. That might be more helpful if you don't know what's right for you. Then, later on, you can still change your beliefs.

Izumi-san


pyrrhic-faith

PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 6:22 am


Shinobi Kitty

4) What if you're scared of religion but find that there is a religion that has many of the same beliefs you do?

5) How do you determine your religion? Do you create the belief?


4. That happened with me, I was scared of being rejected by others if I chose a religion, I was scared of some part of that religion, rejecting me! But I read up on it, went to church a couple times, and I found how much I love it, how other people are there who like me, and I found that the love I get from jesus and god is good base for my hectic life and I'm glad I now have gaidence! But thats my own experience. I would recamend others do that too if they are scared of relgion, just try it out!
5. Determine? I unno. Something close to wut I could believe, something sort of close to earth at least, something that has my same values on life and ect. I tell myself that it makes pretty good sense and I start believin the storys that i am told -shrugs-
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 7:25 am


I've got an example of a Tao saying.

The way that can be spoken of
Is not the constant way;
The name that can be named
Is not the constant name.


That's just the first part of the first saying out of a whole bunch. See what I mean when I say complicated? Taoists acctually understand this. I only think I do. But I'm not sure.

Izumi-san


JoVo

PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 7:48 am


Shinobi Kitty
1) What/who are the agnostics?


People who believe that humans cannot know the answers to the "greatest" questions, so we should not assume that we are capable of it.

Shinobi Kitty
A. What are the main beliefs?


See above.

Shinobi Kitty
B. How do these beliefs affect humanity?


They have inspired an era of secularism, which pervades the Western world. It is the belief that religion either does not matter or is irrelevant to matters of politics and policy. Whether this has been a good or a bad movement is debatable, and it is plenty debated.

Shinobi Kitty
2) What/who are the secular humanists?


Those who believe that man, despite God, can create it's own morality. They believe that man is accountable only to himself, but that man can and must seek the greatest good, and this greatest good need not be God. In fact, God is often anathemic to this greatest good.

Shinobi Kitty
A. What are the main beliefs?


See above.

Shinobi Kitty
B. How do these beliefs affect humanity?


Not as much as agnosticism, but many thinkers of the Enlightenment have affected humanism.

Shinobi Kitty
3) What is Taoism?


An Eastern religion that sees the Divine as having two qualities that contain the opposite qualities of each other, but each part of the Divine contains a small quantity of its opposite. Good and evil must exist in order to maintain the balance necessary for the continued existence of the universe. The symbol of the yin-yang is the imagery of the Tao.

Shinobi Kitty
4) What if you're scared of religion but find that there is a religion that has many of the same beliefs you do?


Then I'm sorry you're scared of religion. Religion is a thing of beauty. If you are scared of it, you'd do well to avoid sunsets.

Shinobi Kitty
5) How do you determine your religion? Do you create the belief?


You do not. Religion is personal, but it predates any one person. Religion is universal in the same sense that no religion can lead the the fulfillment of any person. Every person must develop their own relationship to the Divine, but they do not invent anything new. They draw upon things that are eternal and forever.

That is the nature of spirituality.
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 1:37 pm


Vague..

..Thank you for telling me that I am a walking social science and geography book. stare

As for the rest of you, thanks for answering.

Personally, its not so much as being afriad of religion or the idea of a greater good..its the fear of being swept away and losing all reasoning that has kept me from religion. The nagging thought in the back of my head that becomes a persistant screaming when Im around devout religious people is, "They're nuts! They've lost their minds!"

And thats about the time I sigh, roll my eyes, and go find a book to read in a quiet corner somewhere.

You'd be hard pressed, JoVo, to keep me away from a good sunset because I notice them whenever Im out at the right time.

I did mention discussion didnt I in the first post?

Shnobes


[Q]

Elder

PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 2:02 pm


It seems I'm th eonly one who made my only religion to believe in. -sigh-

Still can't think of a name for it, though....
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 6:00 pm


[Q]
It seems I'm th eonly one who made my only religion to believe in. -sigh-

Still can't think of a name for it, though....

I kinda have a made-up religion, I don't call it a religion though, I just think of it as my beliefs.

Nusumi


Keithing
Crew

PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 6:30 pm


Nusumi
[Q]
It seems I'm th eonly one who made my only religion to believe in. -sigh-

Still can't think of a name for it, though....

I kinda have a made-up religion, I don't call it a religion though, I just think of it as my beliefs.
Exactly. I don't need to be part of an organized group to develop my own set of beliefs, ideas and values. At one point I thought I was agnostic, or that I could be bohemian. Then I realized I'm just stubborn. sweatdrop
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 7:04 pm


So why do people feel the need for an organized religion?

It seems reassuring to me to have a structure that makes thing simple and clearly defined as to what you're supposed to believe but then I think about it for a moment and re-realize (because it happens so many times) that life isnt simple at all and no one can tell you what to believe.

I just seem to want to have a name to call myself. There are Christians, Agnostics, Aethiest, Satanists, Wiccans, Buddhists...but what am I? I dont feel the need for a superior force in my life, just a belief in morals and whats right and whats wrong.

So what do I say when people ask my religion? I tell them Im 'nothing' and they assume Im an aethiest. Its really hard to explain to people that I dont believe theres a god or do believe theres a god; I just dont care if there is or isnt.

Free will..its my life isnt it? My decision on how Im going to save or damn my soul.

Shnobes


Nusumi

PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 9:03 pm


Shinobi Kitty
So what do I say when people ask my religion? I tell them Im 'nothing' and they assume Im an aethiest. Its really hard to explain to people that I dont believe theres a god or do believe theres a god; I just dont care if there is or isnt.

I don't believe in any sort of supreme being, that's just going too far, so I allways tell people I'm aethiest.. I do however believe in supernatural entities. 3nodding
PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 5:54 am


Shinobi Kitty
Personally, its not so much as being afriad of religion or the idea of a greater good..its the fear of being swept away and losing all reasoning that has kept me from religion. The nagging thought in the back of my head that becomes a persistant screaming when Im around devout religious people is, "They're nuts! They've lost their minds!"

And thats about the time I sigh, roll my eyes, and go find a book to read in a quiet corner somewhere.


Then you're not afraid of religion. You're afraid of fanaticism. You've just decided, albeit inaccurately, that they are synonymous.

Shinobi Kitty
You'd be hard pressed, JoVo, to keep me away from a good sunset because I notice them whenever Im out at the right time.


Which you've demonstrated above. You're not afraid of religion. Therefore, sunsets still inspire you.

[Q]
It seems I'm th eonly one who made my only religion to believe in. -sigh-

Still can't think of a name for it, though....


Nusumi
I kinda have a made-up religion, I don't call it a religion though, I just think of it as my beliefs.


Keithing
Exactly. I don't need to be part of an organized group to develop my own set of beliefs, ideas and values. At one point I thought I was agnostic, or that I could be bohemian. Then I realized I'm just stubborn. sweatdrop


I would not be surprised at all to learn that the religions you've each "made up" are already shared by many others who you are not aware exist.

Shinobi Kitty
So why do people feel the need for an organized religion?


A sense of community; a sense of belonging; that everpresent human need for the social form. We are creatures biologically designed to require other humans in order to live well. The organized religion is a consequence of this imperative.

Shinobi Kitty
It seems reassuring to me to have a structure that makes thing simple and clearly defined as to what you're supposed to believe but then I think about it for a moment and re-realize (because it happens so many times) that life isnt simple at all and no one can tell you what to believe.


Which, you must realize, is what the higher end of every organized religion seeks. In Catholicism, a paragon of religious organization, innovative minds are not encouraged, but they are sanctified where they come to be: Francis of Assisi, Augustine, Thomas Aquinas, Pio, the list goes on.

Shinobi Kitty
I just seem to want to have a name to call myself. There are Christians, Agnostics, Aethiest, Satanists, Wiccans, Buddhists...but what am I? I dont feel the need for a superior force in my life, just a belief in morals and whats right and whats wrong.


Which explains your question about humanism. I don't feel the need for a superior force in my life, but I'm still a Gnostic Christian. Not because I feel the need for such a force but because I am aware that such a force exists. Nevertheless, the name is something that you adopt. Your beliefs dictate this. The religion does not develop your beliefs. Your beliefs develop the religion. Your religion can only build upon what is already there.

Shinobi Kitty
So what do I say when people ask my religion? I tell them Im 'nothing' and they assume Im an aethiest. Its really hard to explain to people that I dont believe theres a god or do believe theres a god; I just dont care if there is or isnt.


If you don't care, that may or may not make you an agnostic. Mostly, it makes you a weak atheist, though that's as descriptive as saying, "I'm a monotheist." You could just be areligious, but if you have adopted a certain philosophy, I recommend you halt your religious research and turn to the secular philosophers. Nietzsche is a personal favorite of mine.

Shinobi Kitty
Free will..its my life isnt it? My decision on how Im going to save or damn my soul.


Or neither. But yes, it is your choice. Unless you're a determinist, in which case it's not.

You started this. wink

JoVo


[Q]

Elder

PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 7:26 am


Keithing- That's what I thought too. But then I sat down and thought about it for a really long time, and realised I wasn't agnostic. However, when people ask me what I am, instead of explaining what I am, I just say agnostic. Somehow people care less about agnostics. 0o

JoVo- I've asked MANY people. They say what I believe in they agree with, because it "Makes sense", but otherwise, it's not from anything... Although I think someone said some of it was from the Koran(sp). But they never elaborated when I asked. confused
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The[ Original] Gay Guild

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