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 Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 6:18 pm
Father's voice
Lately I see bunches of comments from guys stating that they should have a say in whether they have a say in their girlfriend's/wife's abortion or not, and anything saying otherwise makes them unequal, making many feminists hypocrites.
To this I reply: If you get a say in control of my reproductive rights and bodily domain, can I have control of when you ejaculate?
Consider this, gentlemen: You're with a woman you really love, and she gets pregnant. She's not ready to be a mother, but you want a baby now. Obviously, this leads to her wanting an abortion and you not. What would you do? Would you respect her wish or push yours onto her? Keep in mind you love her, and your relationship may/would be on thin ice over this.
I believe that if a woman gets pregnant, it would be nice for her to have a discussion with the willing father and listen to what he has to say, but in the end she has control of her reproductive organs. If the father wants a baby that badly, he can either adopt(preferably) or find a willing woman instead of forcing his girlfriend/wife to incubate one for him. I know if the roles were reversed, you wouldn't want to take any s**t from your girlfriend telling you to keep the kid, would you?
Disgusting: I say this to another guy during a debate to get this response: "Well if she loves me she'll respect my wishes."
But really, why should she respect your wishes when you don't respect hers?
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Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 1:39 pm
Aye. Father's voice does matter. But I agree, if YOU get control over my reproductive rights, can I have control over yours?
I think not. I agree with you when you mention that. A child is a desicion made by BOTH partners. You aren't going to have a baby if the dad isn't ready. The dad's not going to have a kid if YOU'RE not ready.
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Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 5:45 pm
There is a very bad flaw with the equal say thing. Namely that one vote, one person does not work when there are only two people involved and those two people disagree.
So what if they do disagree, what happens? Who's voice is legally weighed over the other's?
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Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 12:36 pm
Kukushka There is a very bad flaw with the equal say thing. Namely that one vote, one person does not work when there are only two people involved and those two people disagree. So what if they do disagree, what happens? Who's voice is legally weighed over the other's? In my opinion.... the one who owns the body that the pregnancy takes place in.
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Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 12:41 pm
In my opinion, the father has an equal voice about the baby, not the woman's body. He needs his own incubator.
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Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 3:18 pm
When a pro-lifer says the father should have a say when he wants to keep the child I ask:
What if the woman wants to keep it and he wants it aborted? Does he say mean he can force her to abort against her will?
If they retract and say "no!" I ask them "why?" The father's will is strong enough to require a woman to go through an unwanted pregnancy for his sake and he gets to have executive privilege over her uterus when he wants the child... why does he not also get this authority when he does not want it?
They often cannot come up with a response, and I happily point out that they are only willing to let the father control the woman's body when he is pro-life, but not pro-choice, and that such selective control is hypocritical.
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Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 11:12 pm
Oh My Freeaking gosh....
THAT'S BRILLIANT! Talon-chan, you are brilliant. I'm sure gonna use that as ammo sometime.
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Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 11:00 am
It's not just about the reproductive organs. If he's allowed to tell me what's staying in my body, I should be allowed to say what's staying in his. I can turn around and tell him he can't get any treatment for any disease/parisite/foreign object in his body. I don't have to give a logical reason, as the "I gave 50% to make that baby!" isn't correct. Or you could say "I gave 50% of the smoke in this house. You have to KEEP that cancer!"
Unless he is physically conected with me, and we live off of the same bodily functions, he has no right to say what goes on in my body.
And even if we were connected, that'd be incest and freaky, and something to put on the X-Files, so it'd have to be aborted anyway.
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Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 1:06 pm
The Father's voice should be heard, and considered... but it is the woman's body and therefore the woman's choice. Until I can control when a man is castrated or gets a vasectomy, he doesn't control when I abort my fetus.
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Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 9:13 pm
"The baby is mine too, so you shouldn't be allowed to remove it without my consent."
Answer: "Let's say I own a large metal pole. I bought it. I still have my receipt. My ownership of it is unquestionable. Now let's say I take this pole and shove it up your a**. Should you have to seek my consent in order to remove it? How about we try it out and see if your opinion on the matter changes."
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Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 9:00 pm
Well, if you consider the baby half-his, then that's fine, that's dandy, sure, whatever, don't care, s**t.
However, he does not own my uterus, which is the main concern in this post. He can have the baby, sure, he can the baby. Whatever, but he can't have my uterus.
So like in Kukushka's wonderful example, if I stick MY stick that I made using my skin cells up your nose, you don't need my permission to yank it out. However, you DO need MY permission to stick it up MY nose in venegence.
((Psss... Not sure if this is possible, but how's for a HALF abortion?))
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Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 2:21 am
Talon-chan When a pro-lifer says the father should have a say when he wants to keep the child I ask: What if the woman wants to keep it and he wants it aborted? Does he say mean he can force her to abort against her will? If they retract and say "no!" I ask them "why?" The father's will is strong enough to require a woman to go through an unwanted pregnancy for his sake and he gets to have executive privilege over her uterus when he wants the child... why does he not also get this authority when he does not want it? They often cannot come up with a response, and I happily point out that they are only willing to let the father control the woman's body when he is pro-life, but not pro-choice, and that such selective control is hypocritical. Heh. That's a clever one. I think the woman should listen to and consider his opinions but ultimately the choice is hers. Her body, after all.
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Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 10:25 pm
..Le Chat du Noir.. So like in Kukushka's wonderful example, if I stick MY stick that I made using my skin cells up your nose,,, I said a**. But sure, whatever. I guess the nose is fine too wink ..Le Chat du Noir.. ((Psss... Not sure if this is possible, but how's for a HALF abortion?)) Haha, I can see it now! "Ok ok, I'll make you a deal. I'll only abort half. Which do you want to keep? Top half or bottom half?"
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Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 5:12 pm
I think that she should give his wishes some consideration, but the final decision is hers.
I don't care if it's inequal. Reproduction is inherently inequal. There is not equality to be achieved.
This isn't about "ownership." It's about her rights.
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Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 5:59 am
Not saying I disagree with what you said, but something popped into my head whilst reading you post..
What if the girl get pregnant and wants to KEEP the baby, but the guy DOESNT? Is it right for her to force fatherhood on him? That quite a grey area for me neutral
EDIT: Oops, didnt realise Talon-chan already brought this up, sorry
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