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ASUKA SORYU DISCUSSION THREAD; Love, Hate, Debate? Goto Page: 1 2 [>] [»|]

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TheMessiah
Crew

Aged Codger

PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2004 9:51 pm


Sir Langley
No, no.
That one's been done.
And my question has probably been asked already, but what the hell. I'll ask it again.... after I post this thing.



Quoted from Conversation
Langleeeh:Okay...
One self defense mechanism is; Displacement. (Example: Attraction to a married person may be displaced to some other activity. A classic instance, is playing a musical instrument instead.)
Such defence would be used unconsciously to redirect the attention to something else.
The example then reminded me of a scene from Evangelion, where Shinji was playing suite no.5 for the cello one night.
Hypothetically, Shinji could have been attracted to something that he could not have, or something that was forbidden. Therefore, he displaced that energy into something more productive.
Coincidentally, Asuka Soryu was on a date with a friend of a friend that night. Thus making her somewhat of a forbidden object.
MessiahMan: the ID then assumes control
Langleeeh: I suppose.
MessiahMan: the id wants pleasure
MessiahMan: and as such finds comfort in a place without pain

We owned Shinji's little self defense mechanism. Hahaha.

Also, something I've been thinking in and around, was about the interaction between Asuka Soryu and one, Rei Ayanami.

So it comes off as hatred, what Asuka feels towards Ayanami.
Now, there was other talk of Rei being a 'maternal figure' since she is part of Lilith, mother of mankind and what not.
However, Ayanami was confused about her 'feelings towards Ikari'.
Being comprised partially of Yui Ikari as well, Ayanami still had that maternal bond with Shinji, even though she was not able to define that feeling.
The fact that Ayanami was able to feel somewhat comfortable around Shinji and vice versa seemed to anger Soryu considerably.
This instantly comes off as jealousy, which it is, however it may not be the obvious kind. "He likes her more than he likes me blah blah". No. Not that.
For Asuka, it might be more on a subconscious level.
All of her mother figures have betrayed, disliked and neglected her.
Most of which, Ayanami does as well.
She ignores Asuka's outburts and doesn't particularly care much about or for Asuka.

I was thinking that Ayanami is another mother figure to Asuka, on a very deep and twisted level that she, herself, doesn't even realize.
Asuka makes the easiest, probably first noticed, connection between Ayanami and the Doll that her mother used to have.
I think, that in her subconscious, Asuka also associates Ayanami with her own mother more so than the doll.

Asuka seeks attention, and everyone usually gives it to her, whether it's positive or negative.
Ayanami, is one of the few that pays her no mind. So when Shinji gets Ayanami's attention, Asuka is jealous of this.
Shinji effectively becomes the doll, and Ayanami, Kyoko Soryu.

The doll isnt necessarily one person. Neither would be the mother.
Asuka just calls Ayanami a doll because it's the easiest association



Let us now note, that I am insane. And this little theory of mine makes no sense.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2004 10:37 pm


you people suck

TheMessiah
Crew

Aged Codger


TheMessiah
Crew

Aged Codger

PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2004 5:45 am


sybird....
PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2004 6:00 am


It's an interesting theory, and it wouldn't surprise me if it was correct. Shinji consciously picks up that there's a maternal feel to Rei, so it's entirely possible Asuka picked up on that too, even if it might have only been on a lower level she wasn't aware of.

sybrid
Crew


TheMessiah
Crew

Aged Codger

PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2004 7:52 am


precisely
PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2004 9:12 am


I have held the idea of Rei being a maternal figure for Shinji (as well as love interest) for a while. But I never really thought about Rei being a maternal figure for Asuka...Guess I'll have to watch the series again and see if I can pick up on that theory.

(Interesting thought though...I don't see why it couldn't be true)

T H I N N


Sir Langley

PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2004 9:59 am


Well, I dont know about the love interest thing as well, but Rei did have these "feelings" that she wasnt to sure about.
Upon watching the series and focusing in on Rei, (Yes I actually did that.) I really did start to notice certain situations in which she'd react in a way that surprised herself.
The way she'd try to comfort Shinji, or protect him, bring him his lunch at the hospital and force him to eat, motivate him, etc, etc.

I thought it was really interesting that she made the attempt, but she still didnt know why she was doing those things, or how to properly do them.
(Like against Ramiel, I think, the whole "The operation will commence at 23:01. And here is your lunch." Then Shinji turned into this big baby; "I'm not hungry, hmph" and then Rei freaked me the hell out with her; "You must eat. You'll need your strength" thing.)

She even attempted to reach out to Asuka in the elevator, to try and help her pilot again.

But, since Asuka had such a horrible mentality and experience with maternal figures, she totally denies Rei and got angry with her, such as she'd scream at her own mother for ignoring her, abandoning her, trying to kill her, etc.
That's why I don't think Asuka hates Rei. She hated her mother and associated Rei with that.
PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2004 11:32 am


Rei was definitely supposed to be Shinji's mother figure....that was hinted at so many times...but i never thought of Asuka thinking about rei as her maternal. I suppose it is possible....but i think she was more upset at the fact that shinji payed almost equal attention on both of them. Asuka never really had anyone to pay attention to her.......well...except for shinji...but i never really understood their relationship (between shinji and asuka), i couldnt tell if shinji really did love her, or if he was trying to find what love he didnt have in her.

Kaze no Hyuga


Sir Langley

PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2004 11:54 am


Well, yes. But that's all on the surface and such.
Being Lilith, Rei is the mother of humanity itself.
So she exudes this maternal feel in general. She's connected to humans, as she says.

But in being part of Yui, she feels much more strongly towards Shinji.
Hence the "Must protect him, I wont let you die" stuff she says.

And as for Asuka, I'm sure she sees any other woman as a somewhat maternal figure that she doesnt want to get close to. Like how she tries to avoid Misato and how she degrades her and such.
She's just afraid of having a mother because her mother is the one that betrayed and hurt her the most.

And regarding the Asuka/Shinji relationship. That's the only way it CAN go with out being creepily incestuous or *****, it IS obvious how Asuka feels about him. She definately likes him, but she just doesnt want to. He's 'bad for her' in her eyes. If she trusts him and grows to love him, there's always that chance that he might hurt her somehow.
Seeing as she's had horrible experiences with trust and betrayal in the past, she doesnt want to risk her heart again.
That's also not mentioning the fact that she's never had a good example to learn from.
Her family didnt have a strong foundation, and 'love is learned in the home' and at an early age.
What she got at an early age, was a neglectful, mentally unstable mother who later killed herself and attempted to make Asuka do the same. A father who abandoned both Asuka and her mother when they needed him most. And finally, a step mother who didnt like her, and was uncomfortable around a little girl.
In the end, they both up and left. Her father chosing this new woman over his own daughter. (This is in the series, because in the Manga it's much worse.)

What she likes in Shinji, tho, is 'the man inside'. She likes it when he takes control of himself (not her lol) and shows that he's got what it takes, he's determined, and very much NOT a coward.
She knows that he's not a coward, and that's what she wants from him.
Her constant insults are just a way of provoking him into defending himself.
She wants him to 'be strong' because she wants to count on him and trust him.
But then she sees him hiding away behind this weak mask of a little boy, and she thinks 'how the hell can I depend on something like that?' kind of.
Asuka doesnt want to need or depend on someone who seems weaker than her.

Shinji just gives into her taunting because he does know how she is to some extent.
It's true, if he does defy her, she'll get angry. She's just terribly confused and misunderstood. She wants him to be strong, but not stronger than her.

What Shinji lacks in outward confidence, he makes up for in inward assurance and strength for others. What Asuka lacks on the inside, is what Shinji can help her with. In turn, she has all the confidence they could both need, she could give him the confidence to be proud of who he is.

It's just hard for them to open up to this, and realize what it is that they want. After so many years of lonliness and abandonment, they just don't know how to accept eachother.
They're equals. They compliment eachother inside and out. They can easily see this, but it will take a long while before they're ready to accept that.

And I have just successfully made myself VIOLENTLY ill with that little speech of pure sap. Excuse me while I go find a bucket and some Gravol.....
PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2004 1:54 am


heart heart

TheMessiah
Crew

Aged Codger


Sir Langley

PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2004 2:11 am


Shhh why did you bump this? Now it has to get ignored all over again... ninja
PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2004 2:13 am


ive told you why ^_^

TheMessiah
Crew

Aged Codger


Sir Langley

PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2004 2:21 am


Exactly. So you didnt have to bump it. Especially with non related stuff. OHHH burn. :X
PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2004 3:10 am


I may sound retarded (don''t answer that Langley) but I think that Rei reminds Asuka more of the doll that her mother carried, and not so much of Kyoko Soryu. Asuka thinks Rei has no emotion, and I distinctly remember a conversation in episode 22 that talks about humans and dolls. She does whatever the Commander asks and doesn''t question it. Much like a doll perhaps. Asuka constantly strives to be better than everyone else, but I believe she takes Rei''s non-carring attitude as Rei proclaiming herself as better than everyone. Rei''s dislike of Asuka derives mostly that Asuka mistreats Shinji, and that Asuka is predominantly red, which is the color that we all know Rei hates...

Ryugi Kazamaru

Eloquent Conversationalist


Ryugi Kazamaru

Eloquent Conversationalist

PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2004 3:17 am


Just take a look at the Blitzkrieg site that Ms. Langley so nicely provided (I figured she'd have and Asuka site for my Rei site) It states that Asuka loathes Rei due to the fact the she reminds her of a doll.
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Terminal Dogma Ruins

Goto Page: 1 2 [>] [»|]
 
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