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I apologize that this post does not openly address the topic at hand. However, I simply wanted to let you know that I will be posting my rebuttal as soon as I finish some research to polish off my argument and better support my stance on the issue.

I apologize for the delay but I am very interested in this topic and will return with my argument as soon as possible.

This certainly is an interesting topic... Alezunde, you seem to be full of them!

Aside from the obvious physical differences, I think that there are naturally some differences between the genders. Almost anything I could cite can be explained as society's doing, (obsession with clothes/the opposite sex, girls being more talkative and prone to physical desplays of affection, etc) but I think that most behavioral differences are fairly natural. If, for example, girls weren't more likely to hug or kiss eacother, society wouldn't have made it a gender norm. What I mean is, if humans didn't have the tendency to act a certain way anyway, society wouldn't expect us to.

Another reason I think that people naturally tend to act pretty much as society dictates is as follows:

I attend a magnet high school, where everyone acts according to the rules 90% of the time. Because we have litarally not had a fight in over four years, and we're "gifted", the deans pretty much leave us alone about dress code and proper conduct with eachother. Since the students are all the psychos that got picked on at other schools, things get pretty interesting. There is no real 'norm,' and any student can do whatever they want, to themselves and eachother, without being ridiculed.

And yet:
Most guys, even stereotypical homosexual males, do not throw themselves on eachother or give excessive hugs, but most girls do.
Most girls, even though we're more aggressive than at other schools, don't ask guys out, but most guys ask girls out.
Most people do not climb the trees (this one's mostly for the few people in this guild that go to my school and know me personally)
Most people act the same as their 'normal' counterparts.

I'm not male, so I really don't know whether men enjoy physical affection as much as women do, but I believe you.
What I meant by mentioning my school is that tradition doesn't really hold sway; thus, you do get people who don't follow the "normal" course of actions, but most still do. Of course, that could be a result of having been raised with certain social rules until the high school age.

*note* Actually, I brought this discussion up at my house, and I may have to retract my earlier statements; my mother is a teacher, at a school mostly populated by Asian and Pacific Islander students who either immigrated to the US themselves or whose parents made the journey. They mostly were not raised with American traditions, and, as my mother told me, do not act in accordance with American norms.
If what I said in my preceding post was true, and society basically followed what humanity does naturally, then people would act almost the same the world over, having the natural inclination to do so. They do not. Therefore, I must admit myself mistaken.

And the thing about climbing trees has no relevance to the discussion whatsoever. Don't worry about it; as I said, I merely mentioned it because there are a few people in the guild who know me and would laugh if they read it.

Kalile Alako:
The phenomena you mention is one of the things that caused me to think about this several years ago.
Culture and tradition influences so much of our behavior depending upon our gender.
The more I overheard from casual conversation between groups of both genders, the more I realized how similar the conversations were.
After consideration, I believe that fundamentally men and women are the same.

Starlock:
You bring up an excellent point.
Some supposed 'experts' say that, for example, women are better at some things than men - but there are too many exceptions to the rule.
If men and women were really fundamentally different, then you would expect the 'proof' to be a bit more consistent.

In answer to your question:
The reason that I believe that this topic is a question of concern is this:
I believe that one of the major problems with society is that people in general do not have a clear enough understanding of themselves or others.
If men and women continue to be raised believing that men and women are different, it will only impede said understanding.
Society will only improve and develop with increased understanding.


-Alezunde

I was thinking of many of the things you mention when I made my origional statement that men and women are fundamentally different. But, upon reflection, most of these things seem to be more a result of ones background. I can say for myself that I would (hopefully) never be so crass as to engage myself in a physical confrontation, but other girls seem to be always spoiling for a fight. And a guy I know has been holding a grudge against another person for longer than I care to remember over some imagined insult to his dignity. While there are some tendencies of a gender to act a certain way, mostly it depends on personality and upbringing.
(Yes, I know that I'm suddenly taking the opposite view of my earlier post... I have seen the error of my ways, something almost unprecedented among philosophers. xd )

The are both men and women with sensitive skin.
I think you would be hard-pressed to find consistent evidence to support your statement.

Yes, I can see how conceivably your body build would influence your views of the world - but body build is still not consistent among men and women.
Not all men are larger than all women.
Not even 80% of men are larger than 80% of women.
There are both men and women of all sizes.

Before puberty is when boys and girls are most similar in physical stature.
Have you ever stood in a room full of elementary students and observed their body build?
Judging by their bodies alone, it's awfully difficult to tell the girls from the boys.

A new point:
I was discussing this topic again with a friend, and she believes that men and women think in different ways.
Her argument was that men and women, while they have the same chemicals in their body, have different levels of chemicals, causing them to react differently to the same stimuli.
She used the example of a clinically depressed person:
They have the same chemicals as 'normal' persons, but they react differently to the same stimuli due to different levels of the same chemicals.

Even with this new argument, I stand by my original perspective.

Firstly, while men and women have different chemical levels, I don't think that those involve any chemicals that cause behavorial differences.
(I am not 100% certain, so this warrants some research.)

Secondly, while chemical imbalances will cause behavorial differences (in the case of the clinically depressed) it will cause slightly different reactions to the same stimuli, but not on a fundamental level.
(They will still react to happiness, sadness, anger, etc in the same manner.)

Thus far, I realize that I have been using human emotion as my main point in case.

So I will introduce a new argument:
I read an article the other day on the Netscape home page about how men should deal with women in some relationshps.
The author of the article stated that men's minds will only process directions one step at a time.
WRONG.
Men are just as capable of processing directions as women.
I also happen to know several females who are not so good at processing directions.
Therefore, this is a false generalization.
There is no difference between thought processes based on gender.
There are difference in thought process based on the individual, but not gender.


Alrighty - that ended up being much more long-winded than I had intended.
Also, some of my arguments are a bit weak, because I got lazy towards the end of the post. x_X

-Alezunde

If you know this, then I'm going to ask for some supporting evidence. 3nodding

-Alezunde